Advantages for Male Applicants in Humanities or Liberal arts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Joking aside… what are you teaching your kids if you encourage them this way? That their honest effort at being the best of who they are will not generate a result that is good enough to make you proud? That the ends justifies the means? How can they feel safe taking risks when all that matters is the result?

You are teaching them that the system is arbitrary, opaque, and driven by many other things besides merit. All of which is true. You are teaching them that many other people are gaming the system based on their race and gender - also true. And trying to convince them that it's "wrong" to do this themselves won't get much traction. Or at least you will lose credibility if you tell your son this.

DP. We all find different ways to move through this imperfect world, but in my experience, dishonestly is corrosive, above all, to the self. I have tried to teach honesty not because the world is honest, but because the only real freedom in a dishonest world is the ability to hold fast to truth. But you do you, and good luck out there.

This is beautifully written and a worthy sentiment, and also completely misplaced moral outrage. A high school student’s intended major is not a “truth.” It’s a thought, an idea, a guess in the dark. Often the guess is wrong.

PP. interesting that not one but two posters interpreted my comment as moral outrage directed toward the teenager who offers a best guess (or even wild guess) about intended major.

That's because you ranted against "dishonesty" and your comment indicated you think kids who choose a humanities major were dishonest and their parents were evil. Now you're trying to walk it back. No sale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Joking aside… what are you teaching your kids if you encourage them this way? That their honest effort at being the best of who they are will not generate a result that is good enough to make you proud? That the ends justifies the means? How can they feel safe taking risks when all that matters is the result?

You are teaching them that the system is arbitrary, opaque, and driven by many other things besides merit. All of which is true. You are teaching them that many other people are gaming the system based on their race and gender - also true. And trying to convince them that it's "wrong" to do this themselves won't get much traction. Or at least you will lose credibility if you tell your son this.

DP. We all find different ways to move through this imperfect world, but in my experience, dishonestly is corrosive, above all, to the self. I have tried to teach honesty not because the world is honest, but because the only real freedom in a dishonest world is the ability to hold fast to truth. But you do you, and good luck out there.

This is beautifully written and a worthy sentiment, and also completely misplaced moral outrage. A high school student’s intended major is not a “truth.” It’s a thought, an idea, a guess in the dark. Often the guess is wrong.

PP. interesting that not one but two posters interpreted my comment as moral outrage directed toward the teenager who offers a best guess (or even wild guess) about intended major.

That's because you ranted against "dishonesty" and your comment indicated you think kids who choose a humanities major were dishonest and their parents were evil. Now you're trying to walk it back. No sale.

thank you. that PP has no leg to stand on.
Go hang out somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I ran some numbers based on the 2023 CDS. Might have changed since then.

Places where the boy acceptance rate > boy application rate:
Middlebury, Williams (slightly), Bowdoin, Wesleyan (large), Villanova

Places where the boy acceptance rate < boy application rate (it is a disadvantage for boys to apply)
Trinity (CT), Hamilton, Colby, Haverford, Washington & Lee, Colgate, Kenyon, Grinnell

Interesting Kenyon is on the disadvantage list since there was a NY Times article several years back where a Kenyon AO specifically said boys had a fairly marked advantage in admissions.

Now, I can’t remember if it was two kids with same stats vs accepting boys with lower stats. If it is the former, then two things can be true at once…that a boy with the same stats as a girl has a big advantage and that boys on average don’t have the same stats so fewer continue to be accepted.

The boy apps went way up after that article and all the pushing they did to get more boys to apply

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not an advantage if your son hasn't taken the majority of his electives and AP courses in humanities. If your kid's courses in high school and activities are very stem-oriented, they know what you are doing and it doesn't sit well with AOs.

If a kid has 5 different AP histories, both AP English, etc., there is a clear desire shown. My son has very comparative govt, comparative politics, every ap history--Euro, Push, Art, etc.

It's just like STEM majors--if you are seriously lacking in math/science APs as main electives, you aren't going to fare well. And the Ivies and top 20s want to see a 36 in Verbal and Reading on ACT and equivalent perfect on SAT, especially Yale.

Little tip from AOs that have seen every game in the book. It doesn't look sincere. Back in the day, the trick was everyone applied to the Nursing School at UVA to get in. They stopped allowing that- can't transfer.

Most kids are taking the exact same classes: 4 years of English, history, math, science, language, and all the other little required things. I have a STEM boy and a humanities boy, and you cannot tell them apart by the transcript. Both had a well rounded high school transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not an advantage if your son hasn't taken the majority of his electives and AP courses in humanities. If your kid's courses in high school and activities are very stem-oriented, they know what you are doing and it doesn't sit well with AOs.

If a kid has 5 different AP histories, both AP English, etc., there is a clear desire shown. My son has very comparative govt, comparative politics, every ap history--Euro, Push, Art, etc.

It's just like STEM majors--if you are seriously lacking in math/science APs as main electives, you aren't going to fare well. And the Ivies and top 20s want to see a 36 in Verbal and Reading on ACT and equivalent perfect on SAT, especially Yale.

Little tip from AOs that have seen every game in the book. It doesn't look sincere. Back in the day, the trick was everyone applied to the Nursing School at UVA to get in. They stopped allowing that- can't transfer.

Most kids are taking the exact same classes: 4 years of English, history, math, science, language, and all the other little required things. I have a STEM boy and a humanities boy, and you cannot tell them apart by the transcript. Both had a well rounded high school transcript.

It comes down to electives. My kid doesn’t take FL due to a learning disability so he takes two electives - both humanities. But some of his classmates are taking engineering or other STEM electives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not an advantage if your son hasn't taken the majority of his electives and AP courses in humanities. If your kid's courses in high school and activities are very stem-oriented, they know what you are doing and it doesn't sit well with AOs.

If a kid has 5 different AP histories, both AP English, etc., there is a clear desire shown. My son has very comparative govt, comparative politics, every ap history--Euro, Push, Art, etc.

It's just like STEM majors--if you are seriously lacking in math/science APs as main electives, you aren't going to fare well. And the Ivies and top 20s want to see a 36 in Verbal and Reading on ACT and equivalent perfect on SAT, especially Yale.

Little tip from AOs that have seen every game in the book. It doesn't look sincere. Back in the day, the trick was everyone applied to the Nursing School at UVA to get in. They stopped allowing that- can't transfer.

Most kids are taking the exact same classes: 4 years of English, history, math, science, language, and all the other little required things. I have a STEM boy and a humanities boy, and you cannot tell them apart by the transcript. Both had a well rounded high school transcript.

It comes down to electives. My kid doesn’t take FL due to a learning disability so he takes two electives - both humanities. But some of his classmates are taking engineering or other STEM electives.

It might, but both of mine have STEM and fine arts electives and ECs. Many engineering majors are also involved in college theater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

So they say they want to major in psychology and end up majoring in econ. So?

It's not like they can switch to engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

Eh.
My son was never interested in computer science.
But rather than apply as a dime a dozen Econ /Finance major, he is applying in another area that he’s also interested in.

Since when is econ humanities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

Eh.
My son was never interested in computer science.
But rather than apply as a dime a dozen Econ /Finance major, he is applying in another area that he’s also interested in.

Since when is econ humanities?

My son is also interested in Econ/Finance and is applying as an English major. They don’t have to actually declare their major until the end of sophomore year. Private college counselor insisted this is the way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

Eh.
My son was never interested in computer science.
But rather than apply as a dime a dozen Econ /Finance major, he is applying in another area that he’s also interested in.

Since when is econ humanities?

My son is also interested in Econ/Finance and is applying as an English major. They don’t have to actually declare their major until the end of sophomore year. Private college counselor insisted this is the way to do it.

Yes, agree w/this. Similar advice from our school's CCO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

Eh.
My son was never interested in computer science.
But rather than apply as a dime a dozen Econ /Finance major, he is applying in another area that he’s also interested in.

Since when is econ humanities?

My son is also interested in Econ/Finance and is applying as an English major. They don’t have to actually declare their major until the end of sophomore year. Private college counselor insisted this is the way to do it.

Yes, agree w/this. Similar advice from our school's CCO.

Our private college counselor told my son to apply as a French major or an English major. His interest is in economics and business, but this is a less competitive path and he can declare his actual major after he starts attending school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS, some of our males are actually very interested in the humanities.

It's pissing me off that so many pps are trying to game the system by falsely claiming to want to major in them.

Eh.
My son was never interested in computer science.
But rather than apply as a dime a dozen Econ /Finance major, he is applying in another area that he’s also interested in.

Since when is econ humanities?

My son is also interested in Econ/Finance and is applying as an English major. They don’t have to actually declare their major until the end of sophomore year. Private college counselor insisted this is the way to do it.

Yes, agree w/this. Similar advice from our school's CCO.

Our private college counselor told my son to apply as a French major or an English major. His interest is in economics and business, but this is a less competitive path and he can declare his actual major after he starts attending school.

Yeah, this is the way. Hate the game not the player.

[Anonymous]

Relevant quote from Clayton Christensen:

Unconsciously, we often employ the marginal cost doctrine in our personal lives when we choose between right and wrong. A voice in our head says, “Look, I know that as a general rule, most people shouldn’t do this. But in this particular extenuating circumstance, just this once, it’s OK.” The marginal cost of doing something wrong “just this once” always seems alluringly low. It suckers you in, and you don’t ever look at where that path ultimately is headed and at the full costs that the choice entails. Justification for infidelity and dishonesty in all their manifestations lies in the marginal cost economics of “just this once.”

...[I]t’s easier to hold to your principles 100% of the time than it is to hold to them 98% of the time. If you give in to “just this once,” based on a marginal cost analysis, as some of my former classmates have done, you’ll regret where you end up. You’ve got to define for yourself what you stand for and draw the line in a safe place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which selective schools offer an advantage to male applicants who are interested in the humanities or liberal arts?

So far, I’ve seen:

Yale
Brown
Emory
Tulane
Pomona
Swarthmore

Vanderbilt?

Def Swarthmore & Wesleyan.

He has to tailor the application. Your kid may want to highlight certain things in the activities section that they do not highlight for other schools.

When you are hyper-targeting like this, every single section of the app must be changed and tailored to the school.

Can you give examples of something you would highlight to one school but not another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Relevant quote from Clayton Christensen:

Unconsciously, we often employ the marginal cost doctrine in our personal lives when we choose between right and wrong. A voice in our head says, “Look, I know that as a general rule, most people shouldn’t do this. But in this particular extenuating circumstance, just this once, it’s OK.” The marginal cost of doing something wrong “just this once” always seems alluringly low. It suckers you in, and you don’t ever look at where that path ultimately is headed and at the full costs that the choice entails. Justification for infidelity and dishonesty in all their manifestations lies in the marginal cost economics of “just this once.”

...[I]t’s easier to hold to your principles 100% of the time than it is to hold to them 98% of the time. If you give in to “just this once,” based on a marginal cost analysis, as some of my former classmates have done, you’ll regret where you end up. You’ve got to define for yourself what you stand for and draw the line in a safe place.

You don’t declare your major until 2 years into college. Please.