Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that doctors hang out with other elite school grads who went into big law or finance/finreg. Makes sense since med school is CRAZY expensive, it’s usually only UMC students who pursue. I grew up LMC, borrowing $400k for med school would seem like a plot of Austin Powers — my parents house was worth $60k, they made $30k/year.

So you have UMC students going to med school and becoming doctors, and their prep school classmates are now in finance or BigLaw or downshift to FinReg or maybe some Tech.

They don’t rub elbows with the GMU law grad working at the VA for $180k or the Fed contractor programmer making $170k and laid off at 40 because they are too old or don’t have right cloud certs.

Becoming a doctor slotted you into a lifetime guaranteed UMC job, and you are comparing the higher pay but higher turnover of the top 5% of other fields and unaware of how most in that field fare. Sure maybe you could have been a lawyer or financier, but consider how awful doctors are at investments I suspect you would wash out.

Dude. I hang out with felons and meth addicts and prostitutes and literally put my finger in people’s butts. Earlier today, I met a dude who stabbed himself in the jugular with a steak knife and while I was consenting him for surgery, he told me that I probably wear my white coat when I sick my father’s ****.
Stop with acting like I never met anyone who didn’t go to prep school.

I doubt you are comparing their career outcomes to yours…

But for the grace of God

[Anonymous]

State medical schools are often cheap for in state students and top students do get full rides at many private schools. Poor have many ways to get it subsidized or free or get debt waived after working in underserved areas. Military also makes it free.

If you are smart, hard working and determined , your poverty won't hold you back.

[Anonymous]

NYU medical school is free of tuition for all.

[Anonymous]

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/articles/2017-07-13/how-to-attend-medical-school-for-free

[Anonymous]

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that doctors hang out with other elite school grads who went into big law or finance/finreg. Makes sense since med school is CRAZY expensive, it’s usually only UMC students who pursue. I grew up LMC, borrowing $400k for med school would seem like a plot of Austin Powers — my parents house was worth $60k, they made $30k/year.

So you have UMC students going to med school and becoming doctors, and their prep school classmates are now in finance or BigLaw or downshift to FinReg or maybe some Tech.

They don’t rub elbows with the GMU law grad working at the VA for $180k or the Fed contractor programmer making $170k and laid off at 40 because they are too old or don’t have right cloud certs.

Becoming a doctor slotted you into a lifetime guaranteed UMC job, and you are comparing the higher pay but higher turnover of the top 5% of other fields and unaware of how most in that field fare. Sure maybe you could have been a lawyer or financier, but consider how awful doctors are at investments I suspect you would wash out.

My husband and I are doctors. I know a lot of doctors, and I don’t know anyone who fits this narrative.
Neither my husband or I went to prep school. My husband paid for undergrad through the GI bill. I had an athletic scholarship to a state school. Our kids go to Catholic school and we have a lot of friends who are teachers, engineers, social workers, ranchers, etc.

It’s really only on this website that I feel like I work too hard for too little, and I’m the only moron who has to go to work in person and can’t just take PTO whenever I feel like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.

I work for one of the federal financial regulators. And yes, most of the attorneys I know AND managers in various areas make $250,000. It’s all publicly available.

Uh huh. The Fed is the only agency with non-senior management attorneys making over $250K. And since they hire about 5 lawyers a year, you're more likely to get a dermatology residency or a reproductive endocrinology fellowship than end up at the Fed. There's no point in highlighting unicorn jobs as a likely outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:State medical schools are often cheap for in state students and top students do get full rides at many private schools. Poor have many ways to get it subsidized or free or get debt waived after working in underserved areas. Military also makes it free.

If you are smart, hard working and determined , your poverty won't hold you back.

Join the military? The article linked above says it is rare. Getting into med school is hard enough; getting into a free program is likely the hunger games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that doctors hang out with other elite school grads who went into big law or finance/finreg. Makes sense since med school is CRAZY expensive, it’s usually only UMC students who pursue. I grew up LMC, borrowing $400k for med school would seem like a plot of Austin Powers — my parents house was worth $60k, they made $30k/year.

So you have UMC students going to med school and becoming doctors, and their prep school classmates are now in finance or BigLaw or downshift to FinReg or maybe some Tech.

They don’t rub elbows with the GMU law grad working at the VA for $180k or the Fed contractor programmer making $170k and laid off at 40 because they are too old or don’t have right cloud certs.

Becoming a doctor slotted you into a lifetime guaranteed UMC job, and you are comparing the higher pay but higher turnover of the top 5% of other fields and unaware of how most in that field fare. Sure maybe you could have been a lawyer or financier, but consider how awful doctors are at investments I suspect you would wash out.

My husband and I are doctors. I know a lot of doctors, and I don’t know anyone who fits this narrative.
Neither my husband or I went to prep school. My husband paid for undergrad through the GI bill. I had an athletic scholarship to a state school. Our kids go to Catholic school and we have a lot of friends who are teachers, engineers, social workers, ranchers, etc.

It’s really only on this website that I feel like I work too hard for too little, and I’m the only moron who has to go to work in person and can’t just take PTO whenever I feel like it.

But you don’t deny you grew up UMC…

Sure there are some military educated doctors, but the majority are paying out of pocket and supported by family. Even if they took out the debt, they know their family could help if push came to shove.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that doctors hang out with other elite school grads who went into big law or finance/finreg. Makes sense since med school is CRAZY expensive, it’s usually only UMC students who pursue. I grew up LMC, borrowing $400k for med school would seem like a plot of Austin Powers — my parents house was worth $60k, they made $30k/year.

So you have UMC students going to med school and becoming doctors, and their prep school classmates are now in finance or BigLaw or downshift to FinReg or maybe some Tech.

They don’t rub elbows with the GMU law grad working at the VA for $180k or the Fed contractor programmer making $170k and laid off at 40 because they are too old or don’t have right cloud certs.

Becoming a doctor slotted you into a lifetime guaranteed UMC job, and you are comparing the higher pay but higher turnover of the top 5% of other fields and unaware of how most in that field fare. Sure maybe you could have been a lawyer or financier, but consider how awful doctors are at investments I suspect you would wash out.

My husband and I are doctors. I know a lot of doctors, and I don’t know anyone who fits this narrative.
Neither my husband or I went to prep school. My husband paid for undergrad through the GI bill. I had an athletic scholarship to a state school. Our kids go to Catholic school and we have a lot of friends who are teachers, engineers, social workers, ranchers, etc.

It’s really only on this website that I feel like I work too hard for too little, and I’m the only moron who has to go to work in person and can’t just take PTO whenever I feel like it.

But you don’t deny you grew up UMC…

Sure there are some military educated doctors, but the majority are paying out of pocket and supported by family. Even if they took out the debt, they know their family could help if push came to shove.

I did. DH didn’t.
Neither of us had family help with the debt.
I will say that it was very easy to take out federal loans for school. Unlike undergrad, your parents income isn’t taken into account, so you have zero income and savings.
Also, as people said, you have a pretty guaranteed income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:State medical schools are often cheap for in state students and top students do get full rides at many private schools. Poor have many ways to get it subsidized or free or get debt waived after working in underserved areas. Military also makes it free.

If you are smart, hard working and determined , your poverty won't hold you back.

Join the military? The article linked above says it is rare. Getting into med school is hard enough; getting into a free program is likely the hunger games.

Yeah. It’s not hard to join the military. You have to do one of their residencies though, and you still owe four years when it’s done.

[Anonymous]

(new poster)

I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.

I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.

[Anonymous]

"rotted floor," although I suppose it was tired as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(new poster)

I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.

I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.

And how did you pay for med school?

The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(new poster)

I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.

I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.

And how did you pay for med school?

The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.

DP. Something like 75% of med students use student loans to pay for medical school. Probably half of those that don’t are in an MD/PhD program, go to a school that offers free tuition, or are non traditional students with a working spouse and savings.

Medical students are adults and college graduates. It’s not common that their parents are still supporting them or paying for school.