Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

I’d also like to add the doctors didn’t “do it to themselves” but rather insurance companies did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

They sort of do it to themselves. Pediatricians and primary care aren’t compensated well because what compensates well is procedures. And pediatricians and family doctors try really hard not to do procedures on kids if they can help it. Because they are nice people who care more about children than making money.

They will also do things like “social rounds” where they see their patients in the hospital and check over their charts even though they aren’t the primary physician for that person while they are in the hospital and don’t get compensated.

Dermatologists and plastic surgeons agave a different way of thinking about things.
Good luck getting an early diagnosis of melanoma or facial reconstruction surgery after a car accident if you are poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both my spouse and I are sub-specialists in medicine and wouldn't/don't encourage our kids to go in to medicine or be pre-med.

I don't understand why it is so in demand. The administrative grind, corporatization of medicine, unrealistic expectations of a "service industry" model, and overall lack of respect for clinicians is disheartening. This despite loving the privilege of being in patients' lives and their trust in us.

How much money you and your spouse make?

+1 OP did I miss your response to this question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four doctors in my family. All of them went to med school straight from college. None of them have had grown up jobs other than being doctors. They all act like being a doctor is the worst job on earth.

They have no clue because they have never HAD other jobs. They've never had to try to hustle to make it in law, finance, consulting, etc. They don't know how much non medical jobs can suck as well. They are completely clueless as to how it feels to try to get a job, keep a job, worry about job security, because they have always been in demand and have never had to worry about those things.

I think this is true of many doctors. They're clueless as to how good they have it in many ways.

Seriously, they make a crap ton of money, almost guaranteed for life. They can down shift to PT when kids are in the picture, their is almost zero ageism in medicine, and never will be laid off.

Sure there are certain roles like surgery where people die on a regular basis in your hands, but your average dermatologist or rheumatologist is doing fine.

Almost nothing here is completely true.

-Doctors in Maryland make good money, but my government lawyer friends make more than I do (I'm in a speciality that is mid-range for pay). I work 50-60 hour weeks plus occasional nights and weekends (to be fair, my hours have gotten worse since Covid and the doctor shortage). Not many government lawyers have to answer phone calls all night long and then go work a 11 hour day the next day.
- not sure where you heard that we can go PT on a whim. Many hospital systems and academic centers don’t allow part time for MDs.
- non-competes are standard in medicine, so many of us are trapped in jobs that we hate because our spouse has a job in this area. To change jobs we’d have to move our family far away or to another state.
- of course there is ageism! And older doctors are well-paid, so they get pushed out first. My friend who works at Johns Hopkins said the institution was essentially forcing doctors to retire at 70 a few years ago. Not sure if they stopped due to the current shortage of doctors.
- regulations are so complex that it’s very difficult to have your own practice. Therefore, most of us on the coasts now work for a corporate overlord. They just keep squeezing us - if my workload get increaed and I’m told to “work smarter not harder!” one more time I’m going to scream.
-The training is brutal. It’s years and years of really hard work and getting yelled at and insulted. And if you screw up, someone could die. It’s hard for me to stomach my kids being treated like I was in training. I trained before the work hours regulations, and it abusive and high stakes with a lot of sleep deprivation. I’ve been screamed and sworn at, called names, and had pens books and medical instruments thrown at me by some attending throwing a temper tantrum over administrative issues or staff mistakes that were not in my purview. This kind of drama does make for good TV, but it kind of breaks your spirit in real life. I’m not as nice of a person as I think would’ve been. Like my kids would say that their teacher was mean, and I’d practically snarl at “that’s the just the way life is! Suck it up and Don’t be WEAK!” My kids say I was pretty harsh.
- Lots of doctors I know had a “real job” for 2-5 years before going to med school. We know it’s not perfect anywhere, but medicine has gotten really awful in the last 5 years and it was accelerated by Covid.

As an aside, patients don’t die on a regular basis in surgery - unless it’s a particularly high-stakes speciality like CT or trauma. (Honestly the anesthesiologists are really good at keeping people alive.) That’s just an odd thing to say… not sure you know much about the current practice of medicine.

Gov lawyers top out at $180k, are you a freaking pediatrician or something?

Ageism at 70!??? You are so out of touch.

+1 try 50 in tech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both my spouse and I are sub-specialists in medicine and wouldn't/don't encourage our kids to go in to medicine or be pre-med.

I don't understand why it is so in demand. The administrative grind, corporatization of medicine, unrealistic expectations of a "service industry" model, and overall lack of respect for clinicians is disheartening. This despite loving the privilege of being in patients' lives and their trust in us.

How much money you and your spouse make?

+1 OP did I miss your response to this question?

OP said 200s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.

I work for one of the federal financial regulators. And yes, most of the attorneys I know AND managers in various areas make $250,000. It’s all publicly available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

I’d also like to add the doctors didn’t “do it to themselves” but rather insurance companies did.

Complete lack of respect. That may fade when you are diagnosed with cancer and need surgery/ chemo from the most qualified, skilled physician you can find. Hopefully you will find one who will put up with you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

BINGO. THIS. +10

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

I’d also like to add the doctors didn’t “do it to themselves” but rather insurance companies did.

Complete lack of respect. That may fade when you are diagnosed with cancer and need surgery/ chemo from the most qualified, skilled physician you can find. Hopefully you will find one who will put up with you

Hopefully her expensive watch wearing, boob job doctor will be there for her!

[Anonymous]

Everyone can keep debating about this but the fact is that many people in medicine are unhappy leading to shortages of health care that will directly impact your own care if you need it. You can have all the snide comments in the world but how ungrateful doctors are and bash them all you want until you need care desperately and can’t get it.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't encourage them to go into medicine, but maybe an ancillary field like PT, OT, PA, NP, CRNA. The issue is the growing debt for grad school in these fields and the degree inflation (Master's --> PhD). The incomes aren't keeping up with educational costs, but if you can give them a debt-free education then go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

I’d also like to add the doctors didn’t “do it to themselves” but rather insurance companies did.

Complete lack of respect. That may fade when you are diagnosed with cancer and need surgery/ chemo from the most qualified, skilled physician you can find. Hopefully you will find one who will put up with you

Family and pedantic doctors don’t work oncology cases. Oncologist do. If they don’t know what’s going on they refer you out. Once again this is why NPs and PAs are taking over. Even hospitals aren’t seeing their value and are hiring them over MDs and DOs. This why they are gaining traction with more autonomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

They sort of do it to themselves. Pediatricians and primary care aren’t compensated well because what compensates well is procedures. And pediatricians and family doctors try really hard not to do procedures on kids if they can help it. Because they are nice people who care more about children than making money.

They will also do things like “social rounds” where they see their patients in the hospital and check over their charts even though they aren’t the primary physician for that person while they are in the hospital and don’t get compensated.

Dermatologists and plastic surgeons agave a different way of thinking about things.
Good luck getting an early diagnosis of melanoma or facial reconstruction surgery after a car accident if you are poor.

The reason they’re not doing procedures is because it’s not in their wheelhouse. Not because they are being nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.

Ugh.
I guess if your assumption is that everyone went in it for the money, then correct. Very few of the physicians we know are concierge (though they are being pushed in that direction) and actually did want to help people. The lack of respect you have towards family practice and peds, and conversely the pedestal you put plastics on, is sad.

I’d also like to add the doctors didn’t “do it to themselves” but rather insurance companies did.

Complete lack of respect. That may fade when you are diagnosed with cancer and need surgery/ chemo from the most qualified, skilled physician you can find. Hopefully you will find one who will put up with you

Family and pedantic doctors don’t work oncology cases. Oncologist do. If they don’t know what’s going on they refer you out. Once again this is why NPs and PAs are taking over. Even hospitals aren’t seeing their value and are hiring them over MDs and DOs. This why they are gaining traction with more autonomy.

Their value is that they are cheaper! They have less training and education so I wouldn’t say that equals higher quality of care. Again, anyone who says this should basically never see a doctor. Why would you see anyone dumb enough to spend 7+ years of intense training (not to mention all the pre med classes and boards) when all they needed was 2 year and some online classes?