Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four doctors in my family. All of them went to med school straight from college. None of them have had grown up jobs other than being doctors. They all act like being a doctor is the worst job on earth.

They have no clue because they have never HAD other jobs. They've never had to try to hustle to make it in law, finance, consulting, etc. They don't know how much non medical jobs can suck as well. They are completely clueless as to how it feels to try to get a job, keep a job, worry about job security, because they have always been in demand and have never had to worry about those things.

I think this is true of many doctors. They're clueless as to how good they have it in many ways.

Seriously, they make a crap ton of money, almost guaranteed for life. They can down shift to PT when kids are in the picture, their is almost zero ageism in medicine, and never will be laid off.

Sure there are certain roles like surgery where people die on a regular basis in your hands, but your average dermatologist or rheumatologist is doing fine.

Almost nothing here is completely true.

-Doctors in Maryland make good money, but my government lawyer friends make more than I do (I'm in a speciality that is mid-range for pay). I work 50-60 hour weeks plus occasional nights and weekends (to be fair, my hours have gotten worse since Covid and the doctor shortage). Not many government lawyers have to answer phone calls all night long and then go work a 11 hour day the next day.
- not sure where you heard that we can go PT on a whim. Many hospital systems and academic centers don’t allow part time for MDs.
- non-competes are standard in medicine, so many of us are trapped in jobs that we hate because our spouse has a job in this area. To change jobs we’d have to move our family far away or to another state.
- of course there is ageism! And older doctors are well-paid, so they get pushed out first. My friend who works at Johns Hopkins said the institution was essentially forcing doctors to retire at 70 a few years ago. Not sure if they stopped due to the current shortage of doctors.
- regulations are so complex that it’s very difficult to have your own practice. Therefore, most of us on the coasts now work for a corporate overlord. They just keep squeezing us - if my workload get increaed and I’m told to “work smarter not harder!” one more time I’m going to scream.
-The training is brutal. It’s years and years of really hard work and getting yelled at and insulted. And if you screw up, someone could die. It’s hard for me to stomach my kids being treated like I was in training. I trained before the work hours regulations, and it abusive and high stakes with a lot of sleep deprivation. I’ve been screamed and sworn at, called names, and had pens books and medical instruments thrown at me by some attending throwing a temper tantrum over administrative issues or staff mistakes that were not in my purview. This kind of drama does make for good TV, but it kind of breaks your spirit in real life. I’m not as nice of a person as I think would’ve been. Like my kids would say that their teacher was mean, and I’d practically snarl at “that’s the just the way life is! Suck it up and Don’t be WEAK!” My kids say I was pretty harsh.
- Lots of doctors I know had a “real job” for 2-5 years before going to med school. We know it’s not perfect anywhere, but medicine has gotten really awful in the last 5 years and it was accelerated by Covid.

As an aside, patients don’t die on a regular basis in surgery - unless it’s a particularly high-stakes speciality like CT or trauma. (Honestly the anesthesiologists are really good at keeping people alive.) That’s just an odd thing to say… not sure you know much about the current practice of medicine.

What a whiny post - forced to retire at 70? In the corporate world, age discrimination starts an age 40, and at age 50 you’re severely limited and start getting pushed out. 70 would be a dream! You couldn’t have proven more even if you tried, that doctors are ignorant and entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four doctors in my family. All of them went to med school straight from college. None of them have had grown up jobs other than being doctors. They all act like being a doctor is the worst job on earth.

They have no clue because they have never HAD other jobs. They've never had to try to hustle to make it in law, finance, consulting, etc. They don't know how much non medical jobs can suck as well. They are completely clueless as to how it feels to try to get a job, keep a job, worry about job security, because they have always been in demand and have never had to worry about those things.

I think this is true of many doctors. They're clueless as to how good they have it in many ways.

Seriously, they make a crap ton of money, almost guaranteed for life. They can down shift to PT when kids are in the picture, their is almost zero ageism in medicine, and never will be laid off.

Sure there are certain roles like surgery where people die on a regular basis in your hands, but your average dermatologist or rheumatologist is doing fine.

Almost nothing here is completely true.

-Doctors in Maryland make good money, but my government lawyer friends make more than I do (I'm in a speciality that is mid-range for pay). I work 50-60 hour weeks plus occasional nights and weekends (to be fair, my hours have gotten worse since Covid and the doctor shortage). Not many government lawyers have to answer phone calls all night long and then go work a 11 hour day the next day.
- not sure where you heard that we can go PT on a whim. Many hospital systems and academic centers don’t allow part time for MDs.
- non-competes are standard in medicine, so many of us are trapped in jobs that we hate because our spouse has a job in this area. To change jobs we’d have to move our family far away or to another state.
- of course there is ageism! And older doctors are well-paid, so they get pushed out first. My friend who works at Johns Hopkins said the institution was essentially forcing doctors to retire at 70 a few years ago. Not sure if they stopped due to the current shortage of doctors.
- regulations are so complex that it’s very difficult to have your own practice. Therefore, most of us on the coasts now work for a corporate overlord. They just keep squeezing us - if my workload get increaed and I’m told to “work smarter not harder!” one more time I’m going to scream.
-The training is brutal. It’s years and years of really hard work and getting yelled at and insulted. And if you screw up, someone could die. It’s hard for me to stomach my kids being treated like I was in training. I trained before the work hours regulations, and it abusive and high stakes with a lot of sleep deprivation. I’ve been screamed and sworn at, called names, and had pens books and medical instruments thrown at me by some attending throwing a temper tantrum over administrative issues or staff mistakes that were not in my purview. This kind of drama does make for good TV, but it kind of breaks your spirit in real life. I’m not as nice of a person as I think would’ve been. Like my kids would say that their teacher was mean, and I’d practically snarl at “that’s the just the way life is! Suck it up and Don’t be WEAK!” My kids say I was pretty harsh.
- Lots of doctors I know had a “real job” for 2-5 years before going to med school. We know it’s not perfect anywhere, but medicine has gotten really awful in the last 5 years and it was accelerated by Covid.

As an aside, patients don’t die on a regular basis in surgery - unless it’s a particularly high-stakes speciality like CT or trauma. (Honestly the anesthesiologists are really good at keeping people alive.) That’s just an odd thing to say… not sure you know much about the current practice of medicine.

+1000. Poorly paid pediatrician here.

Do you have any idea how big law partners treat associates??? They yell like maniacs, work you 80-100 hrs per week, and then you get fired if you’re not one of the 2-5% of first years who make partner. You doctors are so deluded and whiny, it’s not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Doctor here, DP, and I wouldn't want my children to become doctors.

After 4 years of college and 4 years of medical school with massive amount of debt accumulated, I spent an additional 6 years in training making $50-60K per year.

Then I had to spend a large amount of money, effort, and tears on IVF because I waited to have kids.

In my 30's was I finally able to start saving for retirement. But of course, also worry about kids' college etc.

The nature of my work is high stress and high pressure. I also routinely take call overnights and work holidays (and trust me, it's VERY tough to lose a night's sleep and have to function the next day when one is old). I have to deal with an immense amount of politics, personalities, and "agendas" at work.

What's so great about medicine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have four doctors in my family. All of them went to med school straight from college. None of them have had grown up jobs other than being doctors. They all act like being a doctor is the worst job on earth.

They have no clue because they have never HAD other jobs. They've never had to try to hustle to make it in law, finance, consulting, etc. They don't know how much non medical jobs can suck as well. They are completely clueless as to how it feels to try to get a job, keep a job, worry about job security, because they have always been in demand and have never had to worry about those things.

I think this is true of many doctors. They're clueless as to how good they have it in many ways.

Seriously, they make a crap ton of money, almost guaranteed for life. They can down shift to PT when kids are in the picture, their is almost zero ageism in medicine, and never will be laid off.

Sure there are certain roles like surgery where people die on a regular basis in your hands, but your average dermatologist or rheumatologist is doing fine.

Yeah, I mean, other than that, sure! It’s great!

[Anonymous]

I do think it would be better to have the flexibility to work from home, and it doesn’t seem like doctors have that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s helpful to say a lot of money or not a lot of money because no one knows what dollar figures you’re talking about. Put some specific $ out there, what may be a lot or not to you is different for others.

I find it hard to believe that there are a lot of doctors out there making less than me. I’m a government executive making $212k plus a 10% annual bonus. It can be very hard work.

I’m a full time pediatrician - to kids of rich parents like you- and make 150k plus no bonus plus two days of weeknight call per week and one weekend a month.

[Anonymous]

My friend is a surgeon, probably makes $800k a year, gets $70k in bonus checks, and lives in a $2M apartment in NYC. I dunno if he has anything to complain about....yeah, it's a lot of work, but that's what he signed up for.

[Anonymous]

Is it really that in demand? I think many are deterred by how hard it is, how expensive, how long it takes...

[Anonymous]

Husband is a radiologist. He would love for our kids to go into medicine. I am a lawyer - NO way would we encourage that. After living through my experience, lack of vacation time, billables, after-hours work, lower pay, etc. - he told the kids they can't go to law school unless they paralegal for two years first and really feel passionate about it.

I am still working FT, 18 years later, but, since law firm practice was not for me, I make less than 1/4 of what my husband does (I have never cracked 100K despite going to a well ranked law school). Even my friends who are in medicine part time are making 6 figures.

Yes, there are stressors in medicine, and DH has changed jobs a handful of times as a result. But the options for ample vacation time, part time work schedules, good pay, and job security are really unmatched.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Husband is a radiologist. He would love for our kids to go into medicine. I am a lawyer - NO way would we encourage that. After living through my experience, lack of vacation time, billables, after-hours work, lower pay, etc. - he told the kids they can't go to law school unless they paralegal for two years first and really feel passionate about it.

I am still working FT, 18 years later, but, since law firm practice was not for me, I make less than 1/4 of what my husband does (I have never cracked 100K despite going to a well ranked law school). Even my friends who are in medicine part time are making 6 figures.

Yes, there are stressors in medicine, and DH has changed jobs a handful of times as a result. But the options for ample vacation time, part time work schedules, good pay, and job security are really unmatched.

My attorney dh wishes he had gone into medicine. He'd have been an absolutely fantastic doctor. Hates law every day. Our kids would NEVER want to be attorneys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP here - one lawyer is SEC, but my spouse says the other lawyer is another “fin reg lawyer, not SEC”- not sure what that means.

That is not on the same pay scale is 97% of fed attorneys. They usually top out at 180 or 190k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP here - one lawyer is SEC, but my spouse says the other lawyer is another “fin reg lawyer, not SEC”- not sure what that means.

That is not on the same pay scale is 97% of fed attorneys. They usually top out at 180 or 190k.

My younger sister is a neurosurgeon from Yale medical school, and she is making 900K/yr at the age of 42. She has about 500K of student debt, and will not be able to pay it off until the age of 50. My older had a law degree from UVA, and he is head of the legal department of a very well-known financial regulator. His salary is 1.2M with a 300K annual bonus. Another older brother of mine joined Apple in 2001 as a software engineer, and he got a lot of Apple shares. He recently retired from Apple at the age of 47 with about 150M in assets. My sister is the least financially successful among the three. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP here - one lawyer is SEC, but my spouse says the other lawyer is another “fin reg lawyer, not SEC”- not sure what that means.

That is not on the same pay scale is 97% of fed attorneys. They usually top out at 180 or 190k.

My younger sister is a neurosurgeon from Yale medical school, and she is making 900K/yr at the age of 42. She has about 500K of student debt, and will not be able to pay it off until the age of 50. My older had a law degree from UVA, and he is head of the legal department of a very well-known financial regulator. His salary is 1.2M with a 300K annual bonus. Another older brother of mine joined Apple in 2001 as a software engineer, and he got a lot of Apple shares. He recently retired from Apple at the age of 47 with about 150M in assets. My sister is the least financially successful among the three. YMMV.

What do you mean "financial regulator"? a government agency such as SEC? A department head at SEC can make 1.2 million?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP here - one lawyer is SEC, but my spouse says the other lawyer is another “fin reg lawyer, not SEC”- not sure what that means.

That is not on the same pay scale is 97% of fed attorneys. They usually top out at 180 or 190k.

My younger sister is a neurosurgeon from Yale medical school, and she is making 900K/yr at the age of 42. She has about 500K of student debt, and will not be able to pay it off until the age of 50. My older had a law degree from UVA, and he is head of the legal department of a very well-known financial regulator. His salary is 1.2M with a 300K annual bonus. Another older brother of mine joined Apple in 2001 as a software engineer, and he got a lot of Apple shares. He recently retired from Apple at the age of 47 with about 150M in assets. My sister is the least financially successful among the three. YMMV.

What do you mean "financial regulator"? a government agency such as SEC? A department head at SEC can make 1.2 million?

LOL... no one at the SEC can make 1.2M... Think of self-regulatory organization (SRO). That's where the money is.