Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine

[Anonymous]

Sorry, PP here - one lawyer is SEC, but my spouse says the other lawyer is another “fin reg lawyer, not SEC”- not sure what that means.

[Anonymous]

Time and time again the salaries of medical professionals are listed at the top of common occupations. Sure, medical practice requires lots of schooling, but so does a PhD in philosophy, and we know who makes more money. Sure, there are business people or others who make more, but those people were not guaranteed their success. Doctors, however, are practically guaranteed employment, no matter the economic environment or practice location. People always need to see doctors and insurance or the government is always there to pay. As someone else said, what’s really behind doctor frustration is its corporatization. Now, doctors - just like the rest of us - frequently work for an employer, which means service goals, financial goals, and limited pay. Welcome to the real world!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.

[Anonymous]

^edit you can look up their salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.

Actually I think it is appropriate to compare doctors with higher paid lawyers. It’s tough to get into med school. My academic peers from undergrad went to law school at Stanford, NYU, U Chicago and Harvard, which - at least 25 years ago - had strong law schools. They have all done very very well financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).

Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.

It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!

It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.

And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?

You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.

Actually I think it is appropriate to compare doctors with higher paid lawyers. It’s tough to get into med school. My academic peers from undergrad went to law school at Stanford, NYU, U Chicago and Harvard, which - at least 25 years ago - had strong law schools. They have all done very very well financially.

You are looking at the top 10% of lawyers with those incomes. Not higher paid lawyers, the highest paid lawyers. Consider this data which says that 90% of lawyers earn less than $239K (including me btw and I went to UVA which has a good law school): https://www.bls.gov/ooh/legal/lawyers.htm

[Anonymous]

The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

ok, the surgeon is only getting a small fraction of that money, even if it's cash only. He's hardly starving but neither is he pocketing $7K an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

ok, the surgeon is only getting a small fraction of that money, even if it's cash only. He's hardly starving but neither is he pocketing $7K an hour.

Even if he has to pay out the the surgical center an anesthesiologist he is still making bank. He was wearing a Audemars Piguet Royal Oak watch. Easily $50k just on his wrist.

[Anonymous]

I m with the OP,we are dual physician family. Vascular and spine surgeon. No we do not want our kid to be a doctor unless it’s their passion.

This is a capitalism but healthcare is not. Every year, doctors compensation is decrease ( doctor compensation is nothing to do with the bills hospital charges patient)

Do you know that reimbursements for surgeon for appendectomy is $300? But how much hospital bill you? How much are is your co pay? How much is your health insurance premium yearly?
What I’m saying is there so much middle man and paper pusher who s over charging in this system. If you follow public company earning report, you will see who make the most in healthcare.

[Anonymous]

I agree that most of my physician friends are unhappy but it’s hard for me to know how happy they would be in other fields. Also, I think that since ACA, there has been sort of a resurgence of the importance of primary care and patient centeredness in healthcare that’s giving them some hope / energy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Well a plastic surgeon in private practice gets paid way more than a regular doctor. But likely not more than a big law partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time and time again the salaries of medical professionals are listed at the top of common occupations. Sure, medical practice requires lots of schooling, but so does a PhD in philosophy, and we know who makes more money. Sure, there are business people or others who make more, but those people were not guaranteed their success. Doctors, however, are practically guaranteed employment, no matter the economic environment or practice location. People always need to see doctors and insurance or the government is always there to pay. As someone else said, what’s really behind doctor frustration is its corporatization. Now, doctors - just like the rest of us - frequently work for an employer, which means service goals, financial goals, and limited pay. Welcome to the real world!

It’s not the service goals, financial goals, and limited pay that are frustrating about having an employer. It’s that most employers (outside of universities) care only about the bottom line and literally do not care if people have to die in order to push more patients through or to improve their payor mix.

It’s so frustrating when you went into this profession to help people and you keep getting pushback from someone with an MBA and no medical background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The money in medicine is very good especially if patients are not using insurance. I just got a quote for a breast job. $14K for a 2 hour surgery. I don’t know if another profession that can reliably make $7K in an hour.

You can’t possibly believe he pockets $7k, can you?
For a variety of reasons, this is an awful example to use. Why don’t you look at Medicaid reimbursement rates, not how much you are paying out of pocket for a boob job?

Why is it an awful example? The best paid doctors tend to be plastic surgeons and dermatologists. Their clients have disposable money and insurance may not be involved. With that said why are doctors complaining about being family or pediatric doctors? Their grades and choice determined that. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants will eventually take over those field. They have more autonomy than ever. That’s why the pay and demand for those positions isn’t what it used to be. The doctors did it to themselves.