In-bounds verification

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

Please explain what you mean by false address? If a family owns a couple DC residential properties and doesn't formally rent out all units in either, what's to stop them from doing what they wish for a DC tax address and school address? Nothing. End of story.

[Anonymous]

What’s going on with this second residence? Is a relative living there? Is it being “informally” rented to a friend? If so, then it’s not the address of an owner who lives in a different home in a different school boundary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

Please explain what you mean by false address? If a family owns a couple DC residential properties and doesn't formally rent out all units in either, what's to stop them from doing what they wish for a DC tax address and school address? Nothing. End of story.

Because the OSSE form asks for your “residence” not “any property you own.” Residence means where you actually live. You have to attest on the form that the address you list is actually where you reside with the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Not sure how DCPS would "get" the boundary cheating families owning multiple properties anyway. What's to stop them from collecting mail at any property they own? Why bother to put scare city ed resources into chasing down such parents? Hello, the DC tax base is still shrinking post Covid. I don't get why posters come here to call these guys out for "fraud" when the only people who'd pay the price for being caught for fraud are the "cheaters." Have you guys nothing better to worry about in this fraught city? How about making noise about the fact that that spots at desirable 5th or 6th grade-12th charters East of Rock Creek are in increasingly hard to come by. Meanwhile, Walls, Ellington and Banneker don't have room for all comers and Eastern HS still doesn't appeal to more than a handful, literally a handful, of high SES families.

Look it’s fraud. If you are ok with lying about your residence on official govt docs more power to you. Personally I am very conservative about this stuff because I don’t want to risk my clearance. I won’t report you for it but I will think you are trashy and dumb.

The DC Residency Verification Form is the form to verify where you live for DCPS. It's very clear, in numerous places, about what they are asking you to certify, and that's you live in DC. It's not an address verification form, it's a *residency* verification form. That's what they care about, and that's where actual penalties come in if you violate them. There's nothing on the form about school boundaries. As far as DCPS is concerned, "residency fraud" is a real, meaningful concept - there's a reporting line and everything. Whereas "boundary fraud" is only real on DCUM.

If you falsify where you live on your tax forms in order to submit that DCPS for proof of residency (but you actually do live in DC), you are committing fraud -- against the IRS, not against DCPS. But if you modify the address on your pay stub from one DC address to another and submit that as proof of residency, that is deceptive and self-serving and it might make you a bad person, but it's not fraud according the actual government agency that manages this.

Yes it is fraud. The form you sign expressly has you swear that you and the child reside at the listed address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Moreover, the IRS doesn't care where you file within the District as long as you file and pay your Federal income tax.

Not too swift to take the DC Homestead Deduction on a DC property where you don't live, but then there's no law forcing you to take it at all.

Umm taking the homestead deduction for a property you don’t reside at is definitely a problem!

[Anonymous]

I’m assuming OP held onto a starter condo or two (from OP and/or spouse before marriage/kids) and are renting them out. That’s very normal EOTP and from what I gather, it’s more common to use a local elementary then the WOTP address for middle and high school. Because middle school kids can take public transit and elementary school choice is a lot less high stakes when you know you have a pathway. Bonus is that by then nosy parents aren’t organizing play dates and monitoring their kids’ friendships as closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

But DCPS has a policy not to investigate or enforce boundary fraud, so not sure you’d have to explain something that DC has chosen not to enforce.

Security clearance generally asks you to list every place you have lived and when. They absolutely could catch a lie like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

Please explain what you mean by false address? If a family owns a couple DC residential properties and doesn't formally rent out all units in either, what's to stop them from doing what they wish for a DC tax address and school address? Nothing. End of story.

Because the forms don’t ask for any address. They ask for the address where you actually “reside” - ie live most of the time. It’s unlikely you’ll get caught but it’s still fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Not sure how DCPS would "get" the boundary cheating families owning multiple properties anyway. What's to stop them from collecting mail at any property they own? Why bother to put scare city ed resources into chasing down such parents? Hello, the DC tax base is still shrinking post Covid. I don't get why posters come here to call these guys out for "fraud" when the only people who'd pay the price for being caught for fraud are the "cheaters." Have you guys nothing better to worry about in this fraught city? How about making noise about the fact that that spots at desirable 5th or 6th grade-12th charters East of Rock Creek are in increasingly hard to come by. Meanwhile, Walls, Ellington and Banneker don't have room for all comers and Eastern HS still doesn't appeal to more than a handful, literally a handful, of high SES families.

Look it’s fraud. If you are ok with lying about your residence on official govt docs more power to you. Personally I am very conservative about this stuff because I don’t want to risk my clearance. I won’t report you for it but I will think you are trashy and dumb.

The DC Residency Verification Form is the form to verify where you live for DCPS. It's very clear, in numerous places, about what they are asking you to certify, and that's you live in DC. It's not an address verification form, it's a *residency* verification form. That's what they care about, and that's where actual penalties come in if you violate them. There's nothing on the form about school boundaries. As far as DCPS is concerned, "residency fraud" is a real, meaningful concept - there's a reporting line and everything. Whereas "boundary fraud" is only real on DCUM.

If you falsify where you live on your tax forms in order to submit that DCPS for proof of residency (but you actually do live in DC), you are committing fraud -- against the IRS, not against DCPS. But if you modify the address on your pay stub from one DC address to another and submit that as proof of residency, that is deceptive and self-serving and it might make you a bad person, but it's not fraud according the actual government agency that manages this.

Yes it is fraud. The form you sign expressly has you swear that you and the child reside at the listed address.

Just curious, are you the same poster who was saying “it’s 100% theft” on this thread? https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/1166551.page

If not, you two should get together. You’re kindred spirits in your righteous indignation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Not sure how DCPS would "get" the boundary cheating families owning multiple properties anyway. What's to stop them from collecting mail at any property they own? Why bother to put scare city ed resources into chasing down such parents? Hello, the DC tax base is still shrinking post Covid. I don't get why posters come here to call these guys out for "fraud" when the only people who'd pay the price for being caught for fraud are the "cheaters." Have you guys nothing better to worry about in this fraught city? How about making noise about the fact that that spots at desirable 5th or 6th grade-12th charters East of Rock Creek are in increasingly hard to come by. Meanwhile, Walls, Ellington and Banneker don't have room for all comers and Eastern HS still doesn't appeal to more than a handful, literally a handful, of high SES families.

Look it’s fraud. If you are ok with lying about your residence on official govt docs more power to you. Personally I am very conservative about this stuff because I don’t want to risk my clearance. I won’t report you for it but I will think you are trashy and dumb.

The DC Residency Verification Form is the form to verify where you live for DCPS. It's very clear, in numerous places, about what they are asking you to certify, and that's you live in DC. It's not an address verification form, it's a *residency* verification form. That's what they care about, and that's where actual penalties come in if you violate them. There's nothing on the form about school boundaries. As far as DCPS is concerned, "residency fraud" is a real, meaningful concept - there's a reporting line and everything. Whereas "boundary fraud" is only real on DCUM.

If you falsify where you live on your tax forms in order to submit that DCPS for proof of residency (but you actually do live in DC), you are committing fraud -- against the IRS, not against DCPS. But if you modify the address on your pay stub from one DC address to another and submit that as proof of residency, that is deceptive and self-serving and it might make you a bad person, but it's not fraud according the actual government agency that manages this.

Yes it is fraud. The form you sign expressly has you swear that you and the child reside at the listed address.

The word "address" appears zero times under "Sign Certification of Residency Requirements." You are certifying that you "have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District". This is a certification of residency, and it is entirely focused on whether you live in the district. That is what DC cares about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

But DCPS has a policy not to investigate or enforce boundary fraud, so not sure you’d have to explain something that DC has chosen not to enforce.

Security clearance generally asks you to list every place you have lived and when. They absolutely could catch a lie like this.

Ah, now I get it. You're trying to scare away the government employees who can afford to own multiple DC houses from your crowded JKLM-Deal-J-R pyramid school, or maybe one of the desirable by-right elementary schools in Ward 6. Not working. You need a novel approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

But DCPS has a policy not to investigate or enforce boundary fraud, so not sure you’d have to explain something that DC has chosen not to enforce.

Security clearance generally asks you to list every place you have lived and when. They absolutely could catch a lie like this.

Ah, now I get it. You're trying to scare away the government employees who can afford to own multiple DC houses from your crowded JKLM-Deal-J-R pyramid school, or maybe one of the desirable by-right elementary schools in Ward 6. Not working. You need a novel approach.

+1. Trying to understand who the "they" is in this scenario? Does PP think OSSE is pulling clearance applications and reviewing them for inconsistencies with residency forms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Not sure how DCPS would "get" the boundary cheating families owning multiple properties anyway. What's to stop them from collecting mail at any property they own? Why bother to put scare city ed resources into chasing down such parents? Hello, the DC tax base is still shrinking post Covid. I don't get why posters come here to call these guys out for "fraud" when the only people who'd pay the price for being caught for fraud are the "cheaters." Have you guys nothing better to worry about in this fraught city? How about making noise about the fact that that spots at desirable 5th or 6th grade-12th charters East of Rock Creek are in increasingly hard to come by. Meanwhile, Walls, Ellington and Banneker don't have room for all comers and Eastern HS still doesn't appeal to more than a handful, literally a handful, of high SES families.

Look it’s fraud. If you are ok with lying about your residence on official govt docs more power to you. Personally I am very conservative about this stuff because I don’t want to risk my clearance. I won’t report you for it but I will think you are trashy and dumb.

The DC Residency Verification Form is the form to verify where you live for DCPS. It's very clear, in numerous places, about what they are asking you to certify, and that's you live in DC. It's not an address verification form, it's a *residency* verification form. That's what they care about, and that's where actual penalties come in if you violate them. There's nothing on the form about school boundaries. As far as DCPS is concerned, "residency fraud" is a real, meaningful concept - there's a reporting line and everything. Whereas "boundary fraud" is only real on DCUM.

If you falsify where you live on your tax forms in order to submit that DCPS for proof of residency (but you actually do live in DC), you are committing fraud -- against the IRS, not against DCPS. But if you modify the address on your pay stub from one DC address to another and submit that as proof of residency, that is deceptive and self-serving and it might make you a bad person, but it's not fraud according the actual government agency that manages this.

Yes it is fraud. The form you sign expressly has you swear that you and the child reside at the listed address.

Just curious, are you the same poster who was saying “it’s 100% theft” on this thread? https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/1166551.page

If not, you two should get together. You’re kindred spirits in your righteous indignation.

lol! no I am not, but you’re equally idiotic if you think using the company credit card to buy groceries is a good idea. I’m not a snitcher and wouldn’t report anyone for this stuff, but miss me with the delusional beliefs that this conduct is not fraud because it’s convenient to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree. Not sure how DCPS would "get" the boundary cheating families owning multiple properties anyway. What's to stop them from collecting mail at any property they own? Why bother to put scare city ed resources into chasing down such parents? Hello, the DC tax base is still shrinking post Covid. I don't get why posters come here to call these guys out for "fraud" when the only people who'd pay the price for being caught for fraud are the "cheaters." Have you guys nothing better to worry about in this fraught city? How about making noise about the fact that that spots at desirable 5th or 6th grade-12th charters East of Rock Creek are in increasingly hard to come by. Meanwhile, Walls, Ellington and Banneker don't have room for all comers and Eastern HS still doesn't appeal to more than a handful, literally a handful, of high SES families.

Look it’s fraud. If you are ok with lying about your residence on official govt docs more power to you. Personally I am very conservative about this stuff because I don’t want to risk my clearance. I won’t report you for it but I will think you are trashy and dumb.

The DC Residency Verification Form is the form to verify where you live for DCPS. It's very clear, in numerous places, about what they are asking you to certify, and that's you live in DC. It's not an address verification form, it's a *residency* verification form. That's what they care about, and that's where actual penalties come in if you violate them. There's nothing on the form about school boundaries. As far as DCPS is concerned, "residency fraud" is a real, meaningful concept - there's a reporting line and everything. Whereas "boundary fraud" is only real on DCUM.

If you falsify where you live on your tax forms in order to submit that DCPS for proof of residency (but you actually do live in DC), you are committing fraud -- against the IRS, not against DCPS. But if you modify the address on your pay stub from one DC address to another and submit that as proof of residency, that is deceptive and self-serving and it might make you a bad person, but it's not fraud according the actual government agency that manages this.

Yes it is fraud. The form you sign expressly has you swear that you and the child reside at the listed address.

The word "address" appears zero times under "Sign Certification of Residency Requirements." You are certifying that you "have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District". This is a certification of residency, and it is entirely focused on whether you live in the district. That is what DC cares about.

no, you certify as follows: “I understand that if I provide false information or documentation, I can be referred to DC Office of the Inspector General for criminal prosecution or to the DC Office of the Attorney General for prosecution under the False Claims Act and under DC Code § 38-312 which provides that any person who knowingly supplies false information to a public official in connection with student residency verification shall be subject to payment of a fine of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days, but not both a fine and imprisonment.”

Your argument that “address” on the form means “just any address I own property in the District but don’t actually reside in” is pretty laughable. Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if it doesn’t rise to the level of criminal fraud, using a false address on a government form (intentionally, for the purpose of obtaining a benefit) is not the type of thing I would want to have to explain to a security clearance investigator, state bar, etc.

But DCPS has a policy not to investigate or enforce boundary fraud, so not sure you’d have to explain something that DC has chosen not to enforce.

Security clearance generally asks you to list every place you have lived and when. They absolutely could catch a lie like this.

Ah, now I get it. You're trying to scare away the government employees who can afford to own multiple DC houses from your crowded JKLM-Deal-J-R pyramid school, or maybe one of the desirable by-right elementary schools in Ward 6. Not working. You need a novel approach.

+1. Trying to understand who the "they" is in this scenario? Does PP think OSSE is pulling clearance applications and reviewing them for inconsistencies with residency forms?

If you’re too stupid to understand how this could jeopardize a clearance I don’t think it’s worth explaining to you.