In-bounds verification

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a gray area, especially if parents continue using the original address with DCPS. But if you own residential DC real estate that you don’t formally rent out, do what you want when registering in boundary. Just make sure that you pick up mail at the property you use for school residency regularly. In our experience, things will work out if you cover your bases on the residency docs and mail collection fronts. Asking permission from DCPS is the last thing you want to do, OP. Opening that can of worms would be naive and dumb.

Translation: If you commit residency fraud, don’t tell anyone and cover your tracks.

Same advice that criminals follow.

So get those boundary cheating criminals arrested then. Report them! Lobby for them to be busted, fine, jailed.

So nobody have anything better to worry about? These parents own these properties so they pick up mail at them if they wish. For all you know, they lived in the properties whose addresses they use for enrollment at the time of enrollment. Yawn.

DC, after year of complaints about out of state students, finally cracked down in roughly 2015-2016.

A Maryland couple who fraudulently enrolled three children in top D.C. public schools for a decade must pay the city more than $500,000 in fines, Attorney General Karl Racine announced Thursday.
The parents, both D.C. police officers, lived at various locations in Maryland and Virginia while their children attended D.C. schools between 2003 and 2013, according to the attorney general’s office. The husband owned a home in Northeast that he rented to tenants, using that address to enroll the couple’s children in some of the city’s most coveted public schools — a violation of city law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/md-family-that-sent-kids-to-dc-public-schools-must-pay-more-than-500000-fine/2016/07/28/b7f3656c-54eb-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html

Seems like you can't claim an address that you rent out as your primary residence. As quoted, a violation of city laws.

The larger problem is that DC looked into this once and tried to make a statement with fines. The problem is there is no enforcement now.

Wow. Some posters on this thread could be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. I wonder if the AG’s office is reading this?

That was residency fraud. They lived in Maryland.

+1. Posters are still conflating residency and boundary. They can and do come after residency fraud. They do not come after boundary fraud.

You’re really missing the point. YES DC cares most about residency fraud. Which means that they will increasingly investigate it, including by using more sophisticated data approaches that identify students who do not appear to live at the OSSE provided address through matching up other addresses used by the parent in many other datasets (mail, subscriptions, court records, car registrations, etc.) Once they suspect you listed a fake address what do you think happens? They investigate you. Because you listed a fake address and they do not know if you live in DC or MD. Because again, to repeat, you listed a fake address. And this is the point where you decide whether to double down on your lie or confess that you lied on the form, the form that you signed and attested to its truthfulness.

You are missing the point. There is no consequence for this for boundary fraud, except possibly losing your feeder pattern. There is a consequence for residency fraud.

There is absolutely a consequence for putting a false address on the enrollment form.

What is it?

Here are 45 pages of process and procedures for verifying *residency* -- absolutely nothing on verifying if you live in a boundary.

https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/publication/attachments/OER_Handbook_02242023.pdf

When you sign the form you swear under “penalty of perjury” that the information and documents you submitted are true. Again, if you think you can just … lie … on a government form that includes an attestation like that, godspeed! I don’t think it’s incredibly likely you’ll get caught but you should understand what you are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you sign the DC residency verification form this is what you are agreeing to:

• I certify that I am the adult student or the student’s legal parent, guardian, custodian, or Other Primary Caregiver and am submitting valid and proper residency documentation accordingly or have identified myself as a non-resident and understand the required tuition agreement and tuition payment needed for enrollment.

• I certify that I have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District, defined as the “actual occupation and inhabitance of a place of abode with the intent to dwell for a continuous period of time”; and I am submitting valid and proper documentation to verify residency, as set forth in 5A DCMR § 5004; or, I have identified myself as a non-resident and will complete the required tuition agreement and tuition payment.

• I consent to the disclosure of whether I was determined to meet the residency requirements for any government funded financial assistance program (such as, Medicaid, TANF, or SNAP) in which I am enrolled for the sole purpose of verifying District residency for DC public or charter school enrollment. By signing below, I am saying: I authorize OSSE to obtain my personally identifiable DC residency status information from other state or federal agencies, including but not limited to, the DC Department of Human Services (DHS), the DC Housing Authority (DCHA), and the Department of Health Care Finance (DHCF). OSSE will protect my information and follow all applicable laws regarding the protection and use of this information.

• I understand that enrollment of the above-named student in District of Columbia Public Schools, public charter schools, or other schools providing educational services funded by the District of Columbia is based on my representation of bona-fide DC residency, including this sworn statement of physical presence and my submission of valid and proper documentation verifying residency or by completion of a tuition agreement and tuition payments.

• I understand that even if the documentation I provide appears to be satisfactory, OSSE or school officials, with reasonable basis, may seek further information to verify the student’s residency or the Other Primary Caregiver status of the adult enrolling the student.

• If the District of Columbia, through OSSE, determines that I am not a resident or an approved non-resident under 5A DCMR § 5007, I understand that I am liable for payment of retroactive tuition for the student, and that the student may be withdrawn from school.

• I understand that if I provide false information or documentation, I can be referred to DC Office of the Inspector General for criminal prosecution or to the DC Office of the Attorney General for prosecution under the False Claims Act and under DC Code § 38-312 which provides that any person who knowingly supplies false information to a public official in connection with student residency verification shall be subject to payment of a fine of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days, but not both a fine and imprisonment.

• I understand that this form and all supporting documentation to this form, including all other OSSE forms used to verify residency, will be retained by the school. I consent to their disclosure to OSSE, external auditors, and other District agencies including but not limited to the DC Office of the Inspector General and the DC Office of the Attorney General, upon request, for the purposes of ensuring the accuracy of my District residency.

• I understand that the District of Columbia may use whatever legal means it has at its disposal to verify my residence.

• I agree to notify the school of any change of residence for myself or the student within three school days of such change and complete a DC Residency Verification Form.

Residency/boundary fraudsters, just because you haven't been caught (yet) doesn't mean that you aren't committing a crime and facing potential fines and imprisonment.

You do see that "boundary" appears nowhere on this form?

Here is what it says:

I certify that I have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District, defined as the “actual occupation and inhabitance of a place of abode with the intent to dwell for a continuous period of time”; and I am submitting valid and proper documentation to verify residency, as set forth in 5A DCMR § 5004

Among other things, at the time you submit the form, you have to actually live in the place at the address you put down with the intent to stay there for a continuous period of time.

A number of people on this thread have said that they lied on this form.

If you lie it is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in prison.

§ 22–2405. False statements.

(a) A person commits the offense of making false statements if that person wilfully makes a false statement that is in fact material, in writing, directly or indirectly, to any instrumentality of the District of Columbia government, under circumstances in which the statement could reasonably be expected to be relied upon as true; provided, that the writing indicates that the making of a false statement is punishable by criminal penalties or if that person makes an affirmation by signing an entity filing or other document under Title 29 of the District of Columbia Official Code, knowing that the facts stated in the filing are not true in any material respect or if that person makes an affirmation by signing a declaration under § 1-1061.13, knowing that the facts stated in the filing are not true in any material respect;

(b) Any person convicted of making false statements shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01 or imprisoned for not more than 180 days, or both. A violation of this section shall be prosecuted by the Attorney General for the District of Columbia or one of the Attorney General’s assistants.

Yep. And the form specifically says that if you provide false information or documentation, you can be criminally prosecuted and go to prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you sign the DC residency verification form this is what you are agreeing to:

• I certify that I am the adult student or the student’s legal parent, guardian, custodian, or Other Primary Caregiver and am submitting valid and proper residency documentation accordingly or have identified myself as a non-resident and understand the required tuition agreement and tuition payment needed for enrollment.

• I certify that I have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District, defined as the “actual occupation and inhabitance of a place of abode with the intent to dwell for a continuous period of time”; and I am submitting valid and proper documentation to verify residency, as set forth in 5A DCMR § 5004; or, I have identified myself as a non-resident and will complete the required tuition agreement and tuition payment.

• I consent to the disclosure of whether I was determined to meet the residency requirements for any government funded financial assistance program (such as, Medicaid, TANF, or SNAP) in which I am enrolled for the sole purpose of verifying District residency for DC public or charter school enrollment. By signing below, I am saying: I authorize OSSE to obtain my personally identifiable DC residency status information from other state or federal agencies, including but not limited to, the DC Department of Human Services (DHS), the DC Housing Authority (DCHA), and the Department of Health Care Finance (DHCF). OSSE will protect my information and follow all applicable laws regarding the protection and use of this information.

• I understand that enrollment of the above-named student in District of Columbia Public Schools, public charter schools, or other schools providing educational services funded by the District of Columbia is based on my representation of bona-fide DC residency, including this sworn statement of physical presence and my submission of valid and proper documentation verifying residency or by completion of a tuition agreement and tuition payments.

• I understand that even if the documentation I provide appears to be satisfactory, OSSE or school officials, with reasonable basis, may seek further information to verify the student’s residency or the Other Primary Caregiver status of the adult enrolling the student.

• If the District of Columbia, through OSSE, determines that I am not a resident or an approved non-resident under 5A DCMR § 5007, I understand that I am liable for payment of retroactive tuition for the student, and that the student may be withdrawn from school.

• I understand that if I provide false information or documentation, I can be referred to DC Office of the Inspector General for criminal prosecution or to the DC Office of the Attorney General for prosecution under the False Claims Act and under DC Code § 38-312 which provides that any person who knowingly supplies false information to a public official in connection with student residency verification shall be subject to payment of a fine of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 90 days, but not both a fine and imprisonment.

• I understand that this form and all supporting documentation to this form, including all other OSSE forms used to verify residency, will be retained by the school. I consent to their disclosure to OSSE, external auditors, and other District agencies including but not limited to the DC Office of the Inspector General and the DC Office of the Attorney General, upon request, for the purposes of ensuring the accuracy of my District residency.

• I understand that the District of Columbia may use whatever legal means it has at its disposal to verify my residence.

• I agree to notify the school of any change of residence for myself or the student within three school days of such change and complete a DC Residency Verification Form.

Residency/boundary fraudsters, just because you haven't been caught (yet) doesn't mean that you aren't committing a crime and facing potential fines and imprisonment.

You do see that "boundary" appears nowhere on this form?

Here is what it says:

I certify that I have established and will maintain a physical presence in the District, defined as the “actual occupation and inhabitance of a place of abode with the intent to dwell for a continuous period of time”; and I am submitting valid and proper documentation to verify residency, as set forth in 5A DCMR § 5004

Among other things, at the time you submit the form, you have to actually live in the place at the address you put down with the intent to stay there for a continuous period of time.

A number of people on this thread have said that they lied on this form.

If you lie it is a crime punishable by up to 6 months in prison.

§ 22–2405. False statements.

(a) A person commits the offense of making false statements if that person wilfully makes a false statement that is in fact material, in writing, directly or indirectly, to any instrumentality of the District of Columbia government, under circumstances in which the statement could reasonably be expected to be relied upon as true; provided, that the writing indicates that the making of a false statement is punishable by criminal penalties or if that person makes an affirmation by signing an entity filing or other document under Title 29 of the District of Columbia Official Code, knowing that the facts stated in the filing are not true in any material respect or if that person makes an affirmation by signing a declaration under § 1-1061.13, knowing that the facts stated in the filing are not true in any material respect;

(b) Any person convicted of making false statements shall be fined not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01 or imprisoned for not more than 180 days, or both. A violation of this section shall be prosecuted by the Attorney General for the District of Columbia or one of the Attorney General’s assistants.

Yep. And the form specifically says that if you provide false information or documentation, you can be criminally prosecuted and go to prison.

Yes. and even if that is interpreted to only apply to residency fraud, there are still criminal penalties for perjury that would apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a gray area, especially if parents continue using the original address with DCPS. But if you own residential DC real estate that you don’t formally rent out, do what you want when registering in boundary. Just make sure that you pick up mail at the property you use for school residency regularly. In our experience, things will work out if you cover your bases on the residency docs and mail collection fronts. Asking permission from DCPS is the last thing you want to do, OP. Opening that can of worms would be naive and dumb.

Translation: If you commit residency fraud, don’t tell anyone and cover your tracks.

Same advice that criminals follow.

So get those boundary cheating criminals arrested then. Report them! Lobby for them to be busted, fine, jailed.

So nobody have anything better to worry about? These parents own these properties so they pick up mail at them if they wish. For all you know, they lived in the properties whose addresses they use for enrollment at the time of enrollment. Yawn.

DC, after year of complaints about out of state students, finally cracked down in roughly 2015-2016.

A Maryland couple who fraudulently enrolled three children in top D.C. public schools for a decade must pay the city more than $500,000 in fines, Attorney General Karl Racine announced Thursday.
The parents, both D.C. police officers, lived at various locations in Maryland and Virginia while their children attended D.C. schools between 2003 and 2013, according to the attorney general’s office. The husband owned a home in Northeast that he rented to tenants, using that address to enroll the couple’s children in some of the city’s most coveted public schools — a violation of city law.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/md-family-that-sent-kids-to-dc-public-schools-must-pay-more-than-500000-fine/2016/07/28/b7f3656c-54eb-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html

Seems like you can't claim an address that you rent out as your primary residence. As quoted, a violation of city laws.

The larger problem is that DC looked into this once and tried to make a statement with fines. The problem is there is no enforcement now.

Wow. Some posters on this thread could be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. I wonder if the AG’s office is reading this?

That was residency fraud. They lived in Maryland.

+1. Posters are still conflating residency and boundary. They can and do come after residency fraud. They do not come after boundary fraud.

You’re really missing the point. YES DC cares most about residency fraud. Which means that they will increasingly investigate it, including by using more sophisticated data approaches that identify students who do not appear to live at the OSSE provided address through matching up other addresses used by the parent in many other datasets (mail, subscriptions, court records, car registrations, etc.) Once they suspect you listed a fake address what do you think happens? They investigate you. Because you listed a fake address and they do not know if you live in DC or MD. Because again, to repeat, you listed a fake address. And this is the point where you decide whether to double down on your lie or confess that you lied on the form, the form that you signed and attested to its truthfulness.

You are missing the point. There is no consequence for this for boundary fraud, except possibly losing your feeder pattern. There is a consequence for residency fraud.

There is absolutely a consequence for putting a false address on the enrollment form.

What is it?

Here are 45 pages of process and procedures for verifying *residency* -- absolutely nothing on verifying if you live in a boundary.

https://osse.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/osse/publication/attachments/OER_Handbook_02242023.pdf

When you sign the form you swear under “penalty of perjury” that the information and documents you submitted are true. Again, if you think you can just … lie … on a government form that includes an attestation like that, godspeed! I don’t think it’s incredibly likely you’ll get caught but you should understand what you are doing.

Actually, the school official signs under penalty of perjury, not the parent/guardian/custodian.

But it is still a crime to provide false statements and/or documents under, for example, § 22–2405.

[Anonymous]

You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

The situation is not "OSSE doesn't prosecute boundary fraud", it's "OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud, and OSSE also doesn't try to bring legal penalties against people for lying on a form in ways that are not material." (With address being nonmaterial for DC residents because, again, OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud.) These are actually different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

The situation is not "OSSE doesn't prosecute boundary fraud", it's "OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud, and OSSE also doesn't try to bring legal penalties against people for lying on a form in ways that are not material." (With address being nonmaterial for DC residents because, again, OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud.) These are actually different things.

Oh, really? You speak for OSSE?

Just the glib rationalizations that all criminals/fraudsters make.

[Anonymous]

More Maryland Parents, Including DC Teacher, Accused of Lying About Addresses to Attend DC Schools for Free

More Maryland parents, including a D.C. teacher, are facing lawsuits from D.C.'s attorney general accusing them of defrauding the D.C. government by lying about where they live in order to get their kids into high-demand public schools without paying tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

The situation is not "OSSE doesn't prosecute boundary fraud", it's "OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud, and OSSE also doesn't try to bring legal penalties against people for lying on a form in ways that are not material." (With address being nonmaterial for DC residents because, again, OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud.) These are actually different things.

Are you actually trying to argue that boundary fraud simply doesn't exist? In that case why do we even have school boundaries? Why is anyone give "in-boundary" preference in the PK lottery? Why would schools ask for your address before enrolling your student, to ensure that it is your "by right" school. What does "by right" even mean, since apparently it doesn't matter?

You sound insane. It's one thing to argue that boundary fraud isn't prosecuted and therefore is fairly easy to get away with. I'd agree with you there. It is nuts to argue that boundary fraud simply does not exist.

There are boundaries. You are required to RESIDE within the boundaries in order to enroll your child without winning a lottery spot. You know this and I know this, which is why if you want to commit boundary fraud, you have to make sure you can pick up mail at that address you listed and give the minimal appearance that you live there, even if only claiming you live there on enrollment forms that ask you to list your address.

God sometimes I hate living in a city full of lawyers with personality disorders. It makes everything so much harder than it needs to be.

[Anonymous]

On a practical level, DCPS can't simply ignore the reality that families owning multiple residential properties can and sometimes do select one as an enrollment address in-boundary even if they don't sleep there, or don't sleep there most the time. Ed leaders of course must decide where to put scarce taxpayer resources in the ed domain. They turn a blind eye to boundary cheating on the part of owners of multiple residences because cracking down on them would be expensive and v. difficult. What are arguing here? That DCPS should copy Fairfax and tony suburbs of other big cities around the country by hiring detective companies to pursue boundary cheaters? You want DCPS resources to be committed to expensive and complicated boundary fraud crackdowns? You also want poor families who shuffle kids between relatives across boundaries on a regular basis to be compelled to ensure that the kids sleep at one residence X number of days in the year to qualify to be enrolled from that residence? I've seen rules on public school enrollment written that way, and enforced, in upscale jurisdictions in other Metro areas. In a nutshell, from a legal standpoint, DCPS can't crack down on well-off boundary cheaters without going at the poors, too. What they do is require multiple tax returns at one address to clear boundary cheaters who are investigated for residency fraud. That's probably the best they can do under the circumstances without going the pricey hire-detective-agencies route, a political hot potato because of the complicated residency profiles of many of the poors. It seems like a sustainable compromise under the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a practical level, DCPS can't simply ignore the reality that families owning multiple residential properties can and sometimes do select one as an enrollment address in-boundary even if they don't sleep there, or don't sleep there most the time. Ed leaders of course must decide where to put scarce taxpayer resources in the ed domain. They turn a blind eye to boundary cheating on the part of owners of multiple residences because cracking down on them would be expensive and v. difficult. What are arguing here? That DCPS should copy Fairfax and tony suburbs of other big cities around the country by hiring detective companies to pursue boundary cheaters? You want DCPS resources to be committed to expensive and complicated boundary fraud crackdowns? You also want poor families who shuffle kids between relatives across boundaries on a regular basis to be compelled to ensure that the kids sleep at one residence X number of days in the year to qualify to be enrolled from that residence? I've seen rules on public school enrollment written that way, and enforced, in upscale jurisdictions in other Metro areas. In a nutshell, from a legal standpoint, DCPS can't crack down on well-off boundary cheaters without going at the poors, too. What they do is require multiple tax returns at one address to clear boundary cheaters who are investigated for residency fraud. That's probably the best they can do under the circumstances without going the pricey hire-detective-agencies route, a political hot potato because of the complicated residency profiles of many of the poors. It seems like a sustainable compromise under the circumstances.

No one is advocating for hiring detective agencies or spending more money on enforcement.

We are saying that people who do this are boundary cheats. It is not within the rules of the system. People who do this are lying on forms and to school officials. Whether OSSE pursues it is another matter. It's cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

The situation is not "OSSE doesn't prosecute boundary fraud", it's "OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud, and OSSE also doesn't try to bring legal penalties against people for lying on a form in ways that are not material." (With address being nonmaterial for DC residents because, again, OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud.) These are actually different things.

Are you actually trying to argue that boundary fraud simply doesn't exist? In that case why do we even have school boundaries? Why is anyone give "in-boundary" preference in the PK lottery? Why would schools ask for your address before enrolling your student, to ensure that it is your "by right" school. What does "by right" even mean, since apparently it doesn't matter?

You sound insane. It's one thing to argue that boundary fraud isn't prosecuted and therefore is fairly easy to get away with. I'd agree with you there. It is nuts to argue that boundary fraud simply does not exist.

There are boundaries. You are required to RESIDE within the boundaries in order to enroll your child without winning a lottery spot. You know this and I know this, which is why if you want to commit boundary fraud, you have to make sure you can pick up mail at that address you listed and give the minimal appearance that you live there, even if only claiming you live there on enrollment forms that ask you to list your address.

God sometimes I hate living in a city full of lawyers with personality disorders. It makes everything so much harder than it needs to be.

OSSE never uses the phrase "boundary fraud". So where's the law defining boundary fraud and the penalties for it? You seem really sure this exists, so find the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are just as likely to get prosecuted for lying about your middle name on that form as you are lying about your address, provided you actually do live in DC.

It's also a crime to walk your dog in various public parks in DC, or at least in swathes of them. It's even a crime to cultivate vegetables in the tree box between your house and the street and to play stickball in a public alley.

If nobody's going to prosecute anybody for activities that are technically crimes, the acts have been decriminalized to the point of not being relevant. You can't change that by coming here trying to scare fellow parents into believing otherwise.

I mean, I also have issues with the many people who run dogs off leash in non-dog-parks in DC. Just because this never gets prosecuted doesn't mean it's a great behavior that we all have to endorse. The vegetable and "stickball" laws are obviously out of date and should be repealed, but don't have much to do with the conversation at hand.

The point is that you can claim that boundary fraud is fine because OSSE doesn't prosecute it, but most of us don't base our moral standards on "what OSSE will prosecute." There are LOTS of immoral things you can do that no one ever prosecutes you for.

Do it if you want, you probably won't go to jail or even get kicked out of the school you are lying your way into. Take your poorly trained dog to the park without a leash and sneer at anyone who tells you to leash it, nothing will happen to you if you do that, either. But you will be a liar and an a$$hole. Apparently that doesn't matter to you.

The situation is not "OSSE doesn't prosecute boundary fraud", it's "OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud, and OSSE also doesn't try to bring legal penalties against people for lying on a form in ways that are not material." (With address being nonmaterial for DC residents because, again, OSSE doesn't recognize the existence of boundary fraud.) These are actually different things.

Are you actually trying to argue that boundary fraud simply doesn't exist? In that case why do we even have school boundaries? Why is anyone give "in-boundary" preference in the PK lottery? Why would schools ask for your address before enrolling your student, to ensure that it is your "by right" school. What does "by right" even mean, since apparently it doesn't matter?

You sound insane. It's one thing to argue that boundary fraud isn't prosecuted and therefore is fairly easy to get away with. I'd agree with you there. It is nuts to argue that boundary fraud simply does not exist.

There are boundaries. You are required to RESIDE within the boundaries in order to enroll your child without winning a lottery spot. You know this and I know this, which is why if you want to commit boundary fraud, you have to make sure you can pick up mail at that address you listed and give the minimal appearance that you live there, even if only claiming you live there on enrollment forms that ask you to list your address.

God sometimes I hate living in a city full of lawyers with personality disorders. It makes everything so much harder than it needs to be.

OSSE never uses the phrase "boundary fraud". So where's the law defining boundary fraud and the penalties for it? You seem really sure this exists, so find the law.

The fraud is lying on the form. As has been repeated to you ad nauseum.