Has Au/tenley town gotten seedier? Lots of homeless and random people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"...that NPS allows to live in the little triangle pocket parks..."

NPS turned the triangle parks over to D.C. years ago. D.C. then outsourced dealing with the homeless in this area to Friendship House.

The convenience store at Booeymongers is an immigrant trying to start his own business. He sells the same type of wine found at Rodman's and not much else so far. He is open past 9 pm when all the other places close. That may also be the only place between Friendship Heights and Rodman's that sells wine.

NPS didn't give the District all the federal triangle pocket parks -- what are you talking about? Are you one of the locals who predictably recommends that NPS "turn over" all kinds of green space around Deal/Murch/Janney/JR to DC, so the kiddies can have more portables and playground crap, and swimming pools?

Oh no, schools, playgrounds and pools. What a dystopia!

Federal park land preserved in permanent conservation for all of society shouldn’t be repurposed for short-term needs that arise from poor city planning

Don’t rob future generations of green space so Walker and Astor can have smaller teacher:pupil ratios for the whopping 6 yrs they’re in DCPS. Or more convenient swim lessons because your nanny doesn’t drive

You embarrass yourself. Truly.

You stun the crowd with this insight and powerful rejoinder. Sincerely.

I mean, what’s there to say about someone griping about installing playgrounds and pools?

Try to follow along: don't take national parkland out of commission for Murch's portable trailers, artificial turf soccer field, or a pool. Pur these lovely things elsewhere, on city-owned land.

Oh please, you are an absolute Scrooge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"...that NPS allows to live in the little triangle pocket parks..."

NPS turned the triangle parks over to D.C. years ago. D.C. then outsourced dealing with the homeless in this area to Friendship House.

The convenience store at Booeymongers is an immigrant trying to start his own business. He sells the same type of wine found at Rodman's and not much else so far. He is open past 9 pm when all the other places close. That may also be the only place between Friendship Heights and Rodman's that sells wine.

NPS didn't give the District all the federal triangle pocket parks -- what are you talking about? Are you one of the locals who predictably recommends that NPS "turn over" all kinds of green space around Deal/Murch/Janney/JR to DC, so the kiddies can have more portables and playground crap, and swimming pools?

Oh no, schools, playgrounds and pools. What a dystopia!

Federal park land preserved in permanent conservation for all of society shouldn’t be repurposed for short-term needs that arise from poor city planning

Don’t rob future generations of green space so Walker and Astor can have smaller teacher:pupil ratios for the whopping 6 yrs they’re in DCPS. Or more convenient swim lessons because your nanny doesn’t drive

You embarrass yourself. Truly.

You stun the crowd with this insight and powerful rejoinder. Sincerely.

I mean, what’s there to say about someone griping about installing playgrounds and pools?

Try to follow along: don't take national parkland out of commission for Murch's portable trailers, artificial turf soccer field, or a pool. Pur these lovely things elsewhere, on city-owned land.

Perhaps you should speak with the NPS about the decisions they make to partner with the city to make schools better. I am certain your input would be valuable. They obviously either were coerced or just don’t know what they are doing.

Why do you hate that school, BTW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Besides the Palisades thing (which will get built), please show your work on the "many developments that could have been built but aren't or won't occur." And anything from 5 or more years ago doesn't count. Be specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Besides the Palisades thing (which will get built), please show your work on the "many developments that could have been built but aren't or won't occur." And anything from 5 or more years ago doesn't count. Be specific.

The Tenleytown Safeway was closed after being bought by GDS, but not before Safeway had *tried* to work with the community to redevelop it into a mixed use complex with a bigger better Safeway.

The palisades Safeway met a similar fate a couple of years later.

The palisades trolley trail / trestle bridge has been a stalled project for ages.

Why the hell was the Giant at what is now Cathedral Commons there for so long in its dilapidated state and why did the Cathedral Commons project drag on and on and on forever to finally get done?

Right now, if you go over to the Spring Valley shopping center area and walk around in the neighborhoods just east of it (take a stroll down Yuma, I saw some there the other day), you'll see some anti-development signs for "NO MASSIVE DEVELOPMENT AT SUPER FRESH"... been going on for like a freaking decade (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/795577.page)

Why did people still want to fight against a hiker/biker rec trail for Kingle Valley like 25 years after it washed out and closed?? Enough to file lawsuits to delay the rehabilitation of it into what it finally is today?

Why are there no firestations west of Wisconsin Ave (or NE of Conn Ave) in the residential areas?

Have you seen/heard the noise around Maret's new field that they are building?

The Chevy Chase Civic center project that might get done? But over the dead bodies of a few residents, apparently.

Why is the safeway at chevy chase still the way it is?

Why is Sam's Park and Shop a freaking one story complex, it's right next to a freaking metro station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"...that NPS allows to live in the little triangle pocket parks..."

NPS turned the triangle parks over to D.C. years ago. D.C. then outsourced dealing with the homeless in this area to Friendship House.

The convenience store at Booeymongers is an immigrant trying to start his own business. He sells the same type of wine found at Rodman's and not much else so far. He is open past 9 pm when all the other places close. That may also be the only place between Friendship Heights and Rodman's that sells wine.

No, there's a liquor store across from target.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't been before COVID. But today we walked around and noticed a lot of randos loitering and hanging out at the chick fila and Panera, both inside and out. Also lots of homeless people loitering around. Felt seedier than before. Have things gone down hill? Is this the new norm?

So when you were walking around, were you not also a rando loitering and hanging out? How were the rest of us to know the difference between you (proper, not loitering) and the randos (seedy, loitering)?

By the way they are dressed, hygiene and the way they are acting and they aren't eating food just hanging out. They don't look like college students, seedy is a good word.

What do college students look like?

Young

[Anonymous]

The one that freaks me out is the big dude with the suitcases who sleeps in that filthy smelly corner outside the Target, right as you come up the Metro escalator. He is right there with his suitcases, you practically have to step on him to get off the escalator.

It is the seedy Friendship Place and St. Columba's attracting this crowd, along with the vouchers, homeless shelter, etc. Welcome to the NEW, VIBRANT Tenleytown. Enjoy the VIBES.

If you are in an apartment, they will do everything possible to put one of these people in your unit to combat "Black displacement."

There was a woman in a wheelchair screaming bloody murder outside the Tenleytown recently.

These people need permanent lifelong psych lock up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh no! Not random people loitering and hanging out!

Never a dull night at DCUM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The one that freaks me out is the big dude with the suitcases who sleeps in that filthy smelly corner outside the Target, right as you come up the Metro escalator. He is right there with his suitcases, you practically have to step on him to get off the escalator.

It is the seedy Friendship Place and St. Columba's attracting this crowd, along with the vouchers, homeless shelter, etc. Welcome to the NEW, VIBRANT Tenleytown. Enjoy the VIBES.

If you are in an apartment, they will do everything possible to put one of these people in your unit to combat "Black displacement."

There was a woman in a wheelchair screaming bloody murder outside the Tenleytown recently.

These people need permanent lifelong psych lock up.

Here you go. Put these numbers in your phone. They will listen to your description and then direct an appropriate response, zero judgment. You do not have to supply your name, just what you are observing and the intersection or other identifying feature of the address such as "corner outside Tenleytown Target". Your taxes are paying for city services to intervene, but you need to call it in for them to be dispatched

https://dhs.dc.gov/page/comprehensive-street-outreach-network
If you see someone outside in need of shelter or a welfare check, call the Homeless Services Hotline at [phone] or dial 311. The Homeless Services Hotline is open every day from 8 AM - 12 AM. During hypothermia season (November 1 - April 15), the shelter hotline is open 24 hours a day. Transportation to shelter and welfare checks are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week during the hypothermia season.
If you see someone experiencing a psychiatric emergency, or trauma, or showing signs of a mental health crisis or substance use disorder, call the DC Department of Behavioral Health Community Response Team at (888) 7WE-HELP or [phone].
If there is an immediate risk to safety, call 911.
For more information, view and download the Comprehensive Street Outreach Network one-pager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Besides the Palisades thing (which will get built), please show your work on the "many developments that could have been built but aren't or won't occur." And anything from 5 or more years ago doesn't count. Be specific.

The Tenleytown Safeway was closed after being bought by GDS, but not before Safeway had *tried* to work with the community to redevelop it into a mixed use complex with a bigger better Safeway.

The palisades Safeway met a similar fate a couple of years later.

The palisades trolley trail / trestle bridge has been a stalled project for ages.

Why the hell was the Giant at what is now Cathedral Commons there for so long in its dilapidated state and why did the Cathedral Commons project drag on and on and on forever to finally get done?

Right now, if you go over to the Spring Valley shopping center area and walk around in the neighborhoods just east of it (take a stroll down Yuma, I saw some there the other day), you'll see some anti-development signs for "NO MASSIVE DEVELOPMENT AT SUPER FRESH"... been going on for like a freaking decade (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/795577.page)

Why did people still want to fight against a hiker/biker rec trail for Kingle Valley like 25 years after it washed out and closed?? Enough to file lawsuits to delay the rehabilitation of it into what it finally is today?

Why are there no firestations west of Wisconsin Ave (or NE of Conn Ave) in the residential areas?

Have you seen/heard the noise around Maret's new field that they are building?

The Chevy Chase Civic center project that might get done? But over the dead bodies of a few residents, apparently.

Why is the safeway at chevy chase still the way it is?

Why is Sam's Park and Shop a freaking one story complex, it's right next to a freaking metro station.

Most of the things you list happened a decade or more ago and are not relevant to the current conversation. If you had been paying attention, you'd know that things have changed.

I have no idea what fire stations have to do with development, and do not recall one single person asking why there are so few of them in Upper NW. What a weird argument.

The Maret field is getting built, pretty much exactly the way Maret wants. The protests about that are mostly getting ignored, as they should be.

Sigh, the Safeway in Chevy Chase. Residents there would kill for a non-decrepit grocery store on that site, and have been asking for one for *decades*, but that parcel is a hornets nest for developers. The building and parking lot are owned by two separate entities, and getting them to the table has apparently been impossible. Until that is resolved, nothing can happen there. The stagnation has absolutely zero to do with local-resident protests, which you would know if you weren't just spouting weak GGW talking points.

The Sam's Park & Shop is definitely bad use of that land, but it's historically designated and has been for nearly 40 years. That ship has sailed. Whining about it will accomplish nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.