Has Au/tenley town gotten seedier? Lots of homeless and random people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.

What argument about the CCDC Safeway? The only argument is between the two entities who own the parcels. The neighbors and the city government have long known that nothing can be done there until the ownership issues are settled, so it's never is part of the discussion. You're creating a controversy that literally does not exist. A strawman.

[Anonymous]

The answer is yes. Tenleytown has gotten a lot seedier over the past five years. It's a genuinely unpleasant place to be. And it's spreading up to Friendship. The Maryland side seems to be doing ok, but the DC side is grim.

DC has really lost the plot in recent years. We had two decades where things were on the upswing. But this city council is a cancer on the city

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.

What argument about the CCDC Safeway? The only argument is between the two entities who own the parcels. The neighbors and the city government have long known that nothing can be done there until the ownership issues are settled, so it's never is part of the discussion. You're creating a controversy that literally does not exist. A strawman.

From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Please consider donating to our cause; we have hired an attorney to help save the Chevy Chase Commons for all."

Oh look. Lawyers. I wonder what they want them for?

The city could work with the property owners to provide the incentives to redevelop it into a more modern one. But after the Giant fiasco and watching how wonderfully some chch people have reacted to these other developments, I can't really blame for anyone just saying "f that, can invest elsewhere".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.

What argument about the CCDC Safeway? The only argument is between the two entities who own the parcels. The neighbors and the city government have long known that nothing can be done there until the ownership issues are settled, so it's never is part of the discussion. You're creating a controversy that literally does not exist. A strawman.

From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Please consider donating to our cause; we have hired an attorney to help save the Chevy Chase Commons for all."

Oh look. Lawyers. I wonder what they want them for?

The city could work with the property owners to provide the incentives to redevelop it into a more modern one. But after the Giant fiasco and watching how wonderfully some chch people have reacted to these other developments, I can't really blame for anyone just saying "f that, can invest elsewhere".

If you've been following the issue of the CCDC Small Area Plan -- you clearly haven't -- you would realize that these people have been more or less ignored throughout the process, and I don't foresee that changing. Every ANC in the area is headed by people who support things like the SAP and the Connecticut Avenue bike lanes, and they keep getting reelected.

Once again, the myth of the Ward 3 NIMBY died years ago, and the remaining ones who are left are few in number and dying off. GGWash trots it out from time to time when they need a boogeyman to scare their lemming supporters into giving them money, but it's just not much of a thing anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.

What argument about the CCDC Safeway? The only argument is between the two entities who own the parcels. The neighbors and the city government have long known that nothing can be done there until the ownership issues are settled, so it's never is part of the discussion. You're creating a controversy that literally does not exist. A strawman.

From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Please consider donating to our cause; we have hired an attorney to help save the Chevy Chase Commons for all."

Oh look. Lawyers. I wonder what they want them for?

The city could work with the property owners to provide the incentives to redevelop it into a more modern one. But after the Giant fiasco and watching how wonderfully some chch people have reacted to these other developments, I can't really blame for anyone just saying "f that, can invest elsewhere".

The bolded will never, ever happen, because of the simple fact that there already are about a billion mixed-use developments anchored by grocery stores in Upper NW and exactly zero EOTR. Bowser et al know that sweetening a deal for developers to build more upscale things in Upper NW is a dead issue, people EOTR would scream bloody murder. They're already going to give away the land where the CCDC library and community center stand now to developers in exchange for a new libary and community center (plus new housing). They're not doing anything with privately owned land that will be a mess to untangle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Let me get this straight, so you're not for representation in DC?

This is a BS straw man and you know it. Am I against representation for disagreeing with, say, the abortion policies that the Texas legislature has enacted? Or Florida's latest anti-LGBTQ laws? Or every gun policy in America? Some of those laws are even very popular with constituents! Believing in democracy doesn't somehow mean one has to agree with everything that a body does, quite the opposite.

That said, I think it's pretty obvious that the ANC system doesn't always do a very good job of representing DC residents. Since their authority is advisory only, the city still has wide latitude in how and when they adhere to ANCs recommendations. And, ANCs are so small that they can easily be hijacked by a handful of residents. A system with a state legislature and no ANCs would do a better job of representing people.

But the more important point is that even if a majority of residents are anti-development (which I actually doubt), that doesn't magically make it good policy. Planning decisions have economic consequences, whether we want them to or not. The people and businesses whose behavior creates those consequences are much broader than a small neighborhood of voters. The residents of Upper NW might want their neighborhoods to stay the same forever, but basic economic forces mean that's not actually an option they have. Building nothing new means decaying in place. More people should recognize that fact, and they should recognize that the kinds of issues they're complaining about on this thread are the initial signs of exactly that mechanism.

And yet it's you criticizing residents of DC for using the mechanisms available to them to share their voice and input - the very definition of representation. You should brush up on what it is about representation that irks you, as well as your fanciful notion that nothing new has been built in Ward 3.

I wasn't the PP here but I was the PP who had the list of stuff above. Using the ANC's is fine. Speaking out at community forums is fine. It's the "I WILL BLOCK THIS WITH LAWSUITS" that a certain privileged group of residents leverage repeatedly that increase the cost of doing business in this Ward substantially because of the nearly inevitable multi-year slog that will have to occur. If all of those projects above had kicked off when they started, then we'd have a dramatically different footprint on both Conn Ave and Wisconsin Ave today then we do. Because we wouldn't STILL be arguing about the stupid ChCh safeway or Park and Shop.

What argument about the CCDC Safeway? The only argument is between the two entities who own the parcels. The neighbors and the city government have long known that nothing can be done there until the ownership issues are settled, so it's never is part of the discussion. You're creating a controversy that literally does not exist. A strawman.

From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Please consider donating to our cause; we have hired an attorney to help save the Chevy Chase Commons for all."

Oh look. Lawyers. I wonder what they want them for?

The city could work with the property owners to provide the incentives to redevelop it into a more modern one. But after the Giant fiasco and watching how wonderfully some chch people have reacted to these other developments, I can't really blame for anyone just saying "f that, can invest elsewhere".

If you've been following the issue of the CCDC Small Area Plan -- you clearly haven't -- you would realize that these people have been more or less ignored throughout the process, and I don't foresee that changing. Every ANC in the area is headed by people who support things like the SAP and the Connecticut Avenue bike lanes, and they keep getting reelected.

Once again, the myth of the Ward 3 NIMBY died years ago, and the remaining ones who are left are few in number and dying off. GGWash trots it out from time to time when they need a boogeyman to scare their lemming supporters into giving them money, but it's just not much of a thing anymore.

These are Ward 3 NIMBYs... And they probably will file more lawsuits. More lawsuits that will ultimately get tossed out and things will progress. But it will still slow down this project, just like nearly every other project in the ward. Making it more costly to do development here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Not wanting private developers to build apartments in the public library and community center means you're a NIMBY?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The answer is yes. Tenleytown has gotten a lot seedier over the past five years. It's a genuinely unpleasant place to be. And it's spreading up to Friendship. The Maryland side seems to be doing ok, but the DC side is grim.

DC has really lost the plot in recent years. We had two decades where things were on the upswing. But this city council is a cancer on the city

Man I wish I had a life so easy it would allow me to be this fragile. One of the nicest, safest, and most expensive parts of town is "genuinely unpleasant" and "grim" to you?

Leave your bubble, touch grass, get therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the Chevy Chase listserv just today: "Please sign our petition to keep the Chevy Chase Commons (the Community Center and Library) out of the hands of private developers: ccdcvoice.org

Not wanting private developers to build apartments in the public library and community center means you're a NIMBY?

when the development plans specifically involve keeping the library and community center?

Yes, absolutely it means you're a NIMBY. "Literally the only thing that will change is more apartments and I don't like that" is basically the dictionary definition of NIMBY.

[Anonymous]

Carjacking just down the road from Tenleytown last night near the Cathedral/Eaton. Insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carjacking just down the road from Tenleytown last night near the Cathedral/Eaton. Insane.

I think you mean vibrant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The answer is yes. Tenleytown has gotten a lot seedier over the past five years. It's a genuinely unpleasant place to be. And it's spreading up to Friendship. The Maryland side seems to be doing ok, but the DC side is grim.

DC has really lost the plot in recent years. We had two decades where things were on the upswing. But this city council is a cancer on the city

Man I wish I had a life so easy it would allow me to be this fragile. One of the nicest, safest, and most expensive parts of town is "genuinely unpleasant" and "grim" to you?

Leave your bubble, touch grass, get therapy.

Compared to five years ago? It's totally grimmer. Just because people are complaining about the decline of a neighborhood doesn't make them delicate. They're just voicing their frustration. Move to Mogadishu if you want, but some of us want safe, walkable neighborhoods with good schools and some decent retail. If that's not your thing, fine. Revel in the decline all you want. But some people want better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Obviously some of the rise in issues in places like Tenleytown are the result of nationwide or citywide trends. But, I think that a lot of Ward 3 folks don't realize that quite a bit of it is also the consequence of their own NIMBYism and resistance to development.

Cities are incapable of remaining static. There is a constant cycle of depreciation and redevelopment going on, and Ward 3 has worked for decades to ensure that most of that redevelopment happens elsewhere. As other neighborhoods grow more dense and open many new businesses, they draw foot traffic away from the older commercial districts. This leads to a decline in the number and quality of businesses that can remain viable in the older districts. And, unless there is pretty high residential density (to quote Jane Jacobs, "eyes on the street") this decline also provides for the kind of space that is easily occupied by individuals who create quality of life issues for other residents. It can easily become a self-reinforcing cycle of disinvestment and decline.

This isn't a new story for DC, it's basically what happened to H Street and U Street in the 1950s when the desegregation of downtown businesses led to a large decline in foot traffic there. Obviously the subsequent riots didn't help, but it took many decades for those business corridors to recover, and they only really took off when new residential development led to an increase in residential density.

In the long run, I worry that Ward 3 might start to look more like Wards 7 and 8, where beautiful but low density neighborhoods aren't enough to sustain strong business districts, and the result has been that residents there are both underserved and less safe. I know that there are plans for redevelopment in places like Friendship Heights, but the scale and scope of what's planned (a single 5 over two with a TJ Maxx) doesn't seem like it's nearly enough to stem the underlying forces of decline.

I always have to wonder where the "there's no development in Ward 3" crowd gets its information from (probably GGW, which isn't exactly reliable these days). It's just so lazy.

A massive residential development (City Ridge) just opened in Tenleytown, and another massive residential development is soon to open right next to it. The Mazza redevelopment will have 320 residential units, which -- sure -- isn't enough by itself but it's still 320 units! Other developments that are soon to go up: 5500 Wisconsin (380 units), Friendship Center (350 units), the old Fox 5 site (214 units) and Lisner Home (~130 units). Plus whatever happens to the CCDC core on Connecticut, which will add hundreds of units to the pipeline.

But please, keep saying "TheRE's nO dEVelOpMeNT iN wArD 3!!!!" You sound so edgy and informed.

Those developments opened despite the nimby actions of many neighbors and certain anc reps. They could have been here sooner, they could be more than they are. Looking at a few developments and saying "see it happens hahaha you fool" is ignoring the many, many developments that could have been but aren't or won't occur.

Besides the Palisades thing (which will get built), please show your work on the "many developments that could have been built but aren't or won't occur." And anything from 5 or more years ago doesn't count. Be specific.

The Tenleytown Safeway was closed after being bought by GDS, but not before Safeway had *tried* to work with the community to redevelop it into a mixed use complex with a bigger better Safeway.

The palisades Safeway met a similar fate a couple of years later.

The palisades trolley trail / trestle bridge has been a stalled project for ages.

Why the hell was the Giant at what is now Cathedral Commons there for so long in its dilapidated state and why did the Cathedral Commons project drag on and on and on forever to finally get done?

Right now, if you go over to the Spring Valley shopping center area and walk around in the neighborhoods just east of it (take a stroll down Yuma, I saw some there the other day), you'll see some anti-development signs for "NO MASSIVE DEVELOPMENT AT SUPER FRESH"... been going on for like a freaking decade (https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/795577.page)

Why did people still want to fight against a hiker/biker rec trail for Kingle Valley like 25 years after it washed out and closed?? Enough to file lawsuits to delay the rehabilitation of it into what it finally is today?

Why are there no firestations west of Wisconsin Ave (or NE of Conn Ave) in the residential areas?

Have you seen/heard the noise around Maret's new field that they are building?

The Chevy Chase Civic center project that might get done? But over the dead bodies of a few residents, apparently.

Why is the safeway at chevy chase still the way it is?

Why is Sam's Park and Shop a freaking one story complex, it's right next to a freaking metro station.

I get most of your list, but the last two, the Safeway in Chevy Chase sits on two parcels. Neither is owned by Safeway and neither property owner is interested in redevelopment.

On the Park and Shop, whether you agree or not, it is registered with the Secretary of Interior and a landmark.

[Anonymous]

If there are Tenleytown residents out there reading this thread, and you want to get involved, I would recommend volunteering or serving on one of the many Tenleytown Main Street committees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, absolutely it means you're a NIMBY. "Literally the only thing that will change is more apartments and I don't like that" is basically the dictionary definition of NIMBY.

If areas of Rock Creek park away from the trails were handed over to developers to build apartments, then "literally the only thing that would change is more apartments." But it seems like saying that everyone who disagrees with an extreme libertarian "develop all public space" ideology is a NIMBY is a bit extreme (reminds me a bit of the "drill, baby, drill" Republican chant when it came to the arctic refuge, honestly).

Not to mention that I can't think of a single library modernization project in D.C. that's built an apartment complex on top of the library.