Excellent NYT piece about shaming people to take Ozempic, etc for weight loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, some people are furious at the discovery that they aren’t thin because of their moral superiority. It is a blow to their sense of self.

They still haven’t truly accepted this. The drugs work by reducing disproportionate hunger that thinner people do not have. But they really believe it’s doing something else as some sort of cheat code.

It’s not that thinner people aren’t hungry, they just resist the hunger. I have nothing against people using Ozempic and don’t judge them for it, but doesn’t this just prove that it IS about willpower? There’s all this justification that has been used that obesity is due to genetics or hormones or some type of disorder, but a drug that is able to reduce hunger has basically cured all these issues. The problem all along, it seems, is that some people can’t resist the urge to eat. I do think a lot has to do with the American diet (e.g., eating a lot of simple carbs and not enough protein causes insulin crashes that makes people eat more, not enough protein and fiber to suppress hunger), but ultimately it’s all within a person’s control.

I agree, mostly. I think the majority of people fall on the bell curve of they need to (and it is within their capabilities) exercise some amount of discipline with both their diet and activity level to be at a heathy weight. But then on either side, there are people that just cannot have that control/discipline over what/how much they are eating and then those that it takes zero amount of effort and discipline to be a heathy weight. But most people fall somewhere in between the two extremes.

Either way- I’m glad there is an option for people that are unsuccessful at getting to or maintaining a heathy weight- whatever their reason is. It in no way takes away my sense of well being or accomplishment for staying in shape by eating well and exercising. That is my preferred option

You think most people have access to healthy food?

The group of people that have access to these drugs absolutely have access to nutrition rich whole healthy foods.

Nutrition-rich whole healthy foods will still cause obesity in those disposed to obesity.

Yes, if they eat massive quantities. The original post to which I responded was “You think most people have access to healthy food?”

The answer remains the same. “ The group of people that have access to these drugs absolutely have access to nutrition rich whole healthy foods. ”

But of course, everybody with weight issues has some exotic metabolic disorder that requires big pharma drugs at $1000/month to solve.

Or maybe we can try and make this discussion even more complicated with crazy stories of the mythical physics problem of eating 1000 calories a day and maintaining a BMI of 35.

This is a total straw man. If obesity could be cured by telling people “hey fatty, eat less!” then there would be no obesity. Clearly it is much more difficult than just deciding to eat less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, some people are furious at the discovery that they aren’t thin because of their moral superiority. It is a blow to their sense of self.

They still haven’t truly accepted this. The drugs work by reducing disproportionate hunger that thinner people do not have. But they really believe it’s doing something else as some sort of cheat code.

It’s not that thinner people aren’t hungry, they just resist the hunger. I have nothing against people using Ozempic and don’t judge them for it, but doesn’t this just prove that it IS about willpower? There’s all this justification that has been used that obesity is due to genetics or hormones or some type of disorder, but a drug that is able to reduce hunger has basically cured all these issues. The problem all along, it seems, is that some people can’t resist the urge to eat. I do think a lot has to do with the American diet (e.g., eating a lot of simple carbs and not enough protein causes insulin crashes that makes people eat more, not enough protein and fiber to suppress hunger), but ultimately it’s all within a person’s control.

I agree, mostly. I think the majority of people fall on the bell curve of they need to (and it is within their capabilities) exercise some amount of discipline with both their diet and activity level to be at a heathy weight. But then on either side, there are people that just cannot have that control/discipline over what/how much they are eating and then those that it takes zero amount of effort and discipline to be a heathy weight. But most people fall somewhere in between the two extremes.

Either way- I’m glad there is an option for people that are unsuccessful at getting to or maintaining a heathy weight- whatever their reason is. It in no way takes away my sense of well being or accomplishment for staying in shape by eating well and exercising. That is my preferred option

You think most people have access to healthy food?

The group of people that have access to these drugs absolutely have access to nutrition rich whole healthy foods.

Nutrition-rich whole healthy foods will still cause obesity in those disposed to obesity.

Yes, if they eat massive quantities. The original post to which I responded was “You think most people have access to healthy food?”

The answer remains the same. “ The group of people that have access to these drugs absolutely have access to nutrition rich whole healthy foods. ”

But of course, everybody with weight issues has some exotic metabolic disorder that requires big pharma drugs at $1000/month to solve.

Or maybe we can try and make this discussion even more complicated with crazy stories of the mythical physics problem of eating 1000 calories a day and maintaining a BMI of 35.

This is a total straw man. If obesity could be cured by telling people “hey fatty, eat less!” then there would be no obesity. Clearly it is much more difficult than just deciding to eat less.

Yeah but SHE is not fat and therefore she is smarter and better and knows all of the best things for everyone’s life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

Suuuuureeeee.

*furrows brow in phen-fen*

true feelings revealed in two posts

What true feelings was I hiding? There’s a long history of weight loss drugs and interventions that turn out to be harmful. That’s a pretty transparent take.

If you think weight loss drugs have bad outcomes, you should see the data on calorie restriction. Complete failure at population level and results in all kinds of harms, including death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

So what is it to you? Just don’t take Ozempic and you’ll be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

So what is it to you? Just don’t take Ozempic and you’ll be fine.

When you try to suppress totally reasonable discussion, you don’t give yourself a lot of credibility.

I have a few very overweight friends. If they chose to take Ozempic I would totally understand and hope it worked. If I knew someone at a healthy weight who took to lose 15- 20lbs I would think they were an idiot and/or disordered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

You're just so deeply wrong. Fen-Phen was never approved as a combination compound. It was always off label use.

In contrast Semaglutide was developed all the way back in 2012, giving us 11 years of data and very few safety concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

So what is it to you? Just don’t take Ozempic and you’ll be fine.

When you try to suppress totally reasonable discussion, you don’t give yourself a lot of credibility.

I have a few very overweight friends. If they chose to take Ozempic I would totally understand and hope it worked. If I knew someone at a healthy weight who took to lose 15- 20lbs I would think they were an idiot and/or disordered.

Again. Not something you should concern yourself with since you are clearly not thinking of taking Ozempic. Also, there is nothing reasonable about what you said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

The first Fen-Phen study was published in 1992. It never received FDA approval for obesity. It was banned by 1997.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

Fen-Phen was not a FDA approved medication. It was TWO medications that were never FDA approved for use together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

The first Fen-Phen study was published in 1992. It never received FDA approval for obesity. It was banned by 1997.

A minute of googling yeilds a fen-phen paper from 1984: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/604539

Obviously they are completely different drugs, but there is ample reason to be concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

The first Fen-Phen study was published in 1992. It never received FDA approval for obesity. It was banned by 1997.

A minute of googling yeilds a fen-phen paper from 1984: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/604539

Obviously they are completely different drugs, but there is ample reason to be concerned.

There is whatever reasons to be concerned that you can identify in the copious high quality data we have. What are your specific reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not shaming anyone for taking these drugs! I’m just worried that we don’t know enough about the side effects long term.

They have been on the market for many years for diabetics. They’re pretty well understood at this point.

That’s the problem - for diabetes or serious obesity, yeah, the risk of long term side effects may be comparatively less important. The worry is when people start taking them to get down to a BMI of 19. And also the rebound for people who cannot tolerate them.

Okay. What long term side effects in the population are you referring to that are comparatively less important? Specifically

It’s a risk-benefit calculation obviously.

Yes. My question is which risks SPECIFICALLY are you worried about drawing from the data of populations that have already been on the drug many years.

Fen-phen was also on the market for years. Like all new medications, we won’t know until we know. The rebound effect seems pretty clearly established though.

The first Fen-Phen study was published in 1992. It never received FDA approval for obesity. It was banned by 1997.

A minute of googling yeilds a fen-phen paper from 1984: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/604539

Obviously they are completely different drugs, but there is ample reason to be concerned.

There is whatever reasons to be concerned that you can identify in the copious high quality data we have. What are your specific reasons?

My specific reasons are that Ozempic already has a long list of known side effects and we have *no idea* what will happen with long term use in non-diabetics. You’d frankly have to be an idiot to pretend it’s all sunshine and roses.

[Anonymous]

Everybody arguing about the safety of a drug when the article is about the moral superiority of people who are mad people are getting skinny.

Just can’t admit their moral superiority.