Excellent NYT piece about shaming people to take Ozempic, etc for weight loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife started on semaglutide a couple of months ago. When the "food noise" went away, she was astounded. Kind of a "this is how it works for other people?!?" perspective.

Yes I think this is common. It’s definitely how I feel.

Like I would say if you imagine you’re super hungry and have been working in a room all day. A pizza arrives. You’re ravenous for the first slice right? But less hungry for the third one, especially if you wait for a while.

I kind of understood that, like in the way a psychopath understands empathy. But actually I’ve always wanted more pizza the sameamount. Ozempic makes me not want the second piece nearly as much as the first one. I can just think rationally about whether I need it, nutritionally, and make a choice without feeling like I’m holding back the tide. It’s like a miracle.

Thank you for explaining this! I was confused about food nose because I do think about food a good deal — when I’m going to eat next what, what I have in my kitchen, what meals I want to make/eat in the next week. But I’m definitely the second scenario with the pizza — the first one is amazing but I’m not so hungry for slices two and three. This is a really clear explanation to me, a naturally healthy weight person (I can’t say skinny b/c I live at the upper end of healthy but I stay there without any especial effort on my part).

I'm staying on the upper end of healthy weight with effort, although now that I finally (at 50+ years old) eat sufficient healthy foods to stay satiated, it's not really too much effort. I still think about food and plan ahead to make sure I have something to eat versus getting to the ravenous phase and eating everything in sight (usually not healthy choices).

I think I have a lot of "food noise" and always have, but I've managed to control it without pharmaceutical intervention.

That's not to say I think others should be able to; just sharing my experience. My concern about the drug is long term safety. Remember the miracle solutions in the past, like Fen-Phen.

Being fat, becoming hyper focused on diet & exercise, starving one's self -- all come with some costs and risks. So, whatever risks come from these new drugs, even if unknown, aren't being weighed against "no risk," just against known (albeit sometimes unappreciated) costs. It's also worth noting that Fen-Phen was never approved by the FDA for use as a combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will remain a deeply troubled society as long as we deny science and assert that ‘willpower’ and ‘character’ are actual things that are stronger than intricately evolved hormones functioning in a biological being.

Nova on PBS just did a couple of episodes on neuroscience called Your Brain. They are designed for non scientists to grasp and reveal the complexities of the human brain and the reality that so much of what we think we are is just not true.

The obesity epidemic is a biological response to a broken food system that is entirely predictable given what we already know about how the human body works, including the brain and gut. Thin people are accidents of genetics and quite often not healthy - weight is not determinative of health, all the research bears that out.

Folks here who settle on an attitude of superiority because they haven’t fallen victim to the obesity epidemic are just proving how ignorant they are of science and when they argue at the science they just prove that they are willfully ignorant which is about the worst ‘character’ a person can develop in life.

I have not fallen victim to the "obesity epidemic" because whenever I have gained 10-15 lbs, I step back, change my diet and exercise more. I realize it is much easier to control at only 10lb+ than at 50lbs. There is no magic drug for weight loss. People can use it in conjunction with diet, but diet and exercise must be a part of a long term plan. Follow a diabetic diet and most will loose weight. Watch your carbs, and even then make the carbs you do eat be "healthy carbs"---so sweet potatoes and other starchy veggies and fruits....mostly eliminate breads, sweets, worthless carbs and calories from your diet and you will be healthier and loose some weight. We should be eating plates filled with low carb veggies, a few fruits and starchy veggies (not white potatoes) and good quality protein. Do that for 2-3 months along with some exercise and most will loose weight and be healthier.

It's very similar to ADHD medication---imo, nobody should just take the medication without therapy in conjunction. Yes, kids and adults benefit from the drugs, but they will do much better if they have therapy along with it to help them learn how to deal with it. Similar to diabetics---don't just give them medications, but also give them diet/nutrition counseling and help them make those changes. Medications alone will not solve these issues, they need to be used along with therapies, dietary changes, exercise, etc. We as a society have forgotten that, and many just want a quick fix...

Whether you realize it or not you sound a little smug in your post. Sort of “look at me, I always did everything right and lost 10-15 lbs so if you didn’t do that it is all your moral failing. Too bad you can’t be like me.” The way you said to follow “a diabetic diet” makes me wonder if you understand that there are different types of Diabetes or if you think Diabetes is all just life style related. No matter how much diet and nutrition counseling my Type 1 relatives do, their pancreas is not just going to start making insulin again. Insulin is life support for them. Also, despite working hard to maintain control over their blood sugar, hormones, the heat, unexpected changes to a routine, illness, can all lead to low blood sugar which requires them to drink or eat rapid acting glucose like juice or smarties candies.

Do you have ADHD? Because I do and wasn’t diagnosed with it until my 50’s. I went to counselors over the years. All misdiagnosed me with “generalized anxiety disorder” which I didn’t have. My brain is just always working at 100 percent. I have never taken ADHD medication or any medication for anxiety or depression. Instead I worked harder than most people in order to live in a world where linear nonADHD people make most of the rules. It is f*** exhausting and draining sometimes and doesn’t lend itself to many dopamine inducing moments. I am still managing my ADHD on my own because it is so hard to get in to see a counselor or doctor for it. You act like getting medication or counseling is easy. It’s not. There are waiting lists to see people, insurance doesn’t necessarily cover it, and it is really expensive. I don’t think it is any easier for weight loss.

My ADHD is a biological condition not a character or moral condition and for decades I’ve listened to some nonADHD individuals say all sorts of judgmental things about kids and adults with ADHD along the lines of “what’s wrong with them, they should do this like me or my way.” I am sick of it. People are different. Our genes are different. Our body chemistry is different. Some of us are more different than others. We are not all round pegs that can be put in a round hole. We have many different shapes with lots of different angles. Are some people using Ozempic as an easy way to weight loss? Probably (especially public figures and celebrities). Are a lot of people in need of help losing weight because losing the traditional way is much, much harder for them than for you? Yes. A thousand times yes and if it will help them avoid adverse health outcomes from weight gain that is probably a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no problem with anyone taking Ozempic to lose weight. But for the love of God, please stop telling us you lost 75 pounds this last month doing yoga. Please, please stop.

It's ok to admit you have to take drugs to deal with your disorder. It's OKAY.

No one lost 75 pounds in a month, even if they stopped eating altogether. Your crazy post tells us you are making up straw men and fake scenarios. There is no one who needs to "please, please stop" saying this, because it didn't happen.

+1. I’m on Wegovy and need to lose at least 100 pounds. 22 pounds down in 10 weeks.I’m still 6 weeks away from a full dose, but my doctor, dietician and I are looking at a one year time frame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will remain a deeply troubled society as long as we deny science and assert that ‘willpower’ and ‘character’ are actual things that are stronger than intricately evolved hormones functioning in a biological being.

Nova on PBS just did a couple of episodes on neuroscience called Your Brain. They are designed for non scientists to grasp and reveal the complexities of the human brain and the reality that so much of what we think we are is just not true.

The obesity epidemic is a biological response to a broken food system that is entirely predictable given what we already know about how the human body works, including the brain and gut. Thin people are accidents of genetics and quite often not healthy - weight is not determinative of health, all the research bears that out.

Folks here who settle on an attitude of superiority because they haven’t fallen victim to the obesity epidemic are just proving how ignorant they are of science and when they argue at the science they just prove that they are willfully ignorant which is about the worst ‘character’ a person can develop in life.

I have not fallen victim to the "obesity epidemic" because whenever I have gained 10-15 lbs, I step back, change my diet and exercise more. I realize it is much easier to control at only 10lb+ than at 50lbs. There is no magic drug for weight loss. People can use it in conjunction with diet, but diet and exercise must be a part of a long term plan. Follow a diabetic diet and most will loose weight. Watch your carbs, and even then make the carbs you do eat be "healthy carbs"---so sweet potatoes and other starchy veggies and fruits....mostly eliminate breads, sweets, worthless carbs and calories from your diet and you will be healthier and loose some weight. We should be eating plates filled with low carb veggies, a few fruits and starchy veggies (not white potatoes) and good quality protein. Do that for 2-3 months along with some exercise and most will loose weight and be healthier.

It's very similar to ADHD medication---imo, nobody should just take the medication without therapy in conjunction. Yes, kids and adults benefit from the drugs, but they will do much better if they have therapy along with it to help them learn how to deal with it. Similar to diabetics---don't just give them medications, but also give them diet/nutrition counseling and help them make those changes. Medications alone will not solve these issues, they need to be used along with therapies, dietary changes, exercise, etc. We as a society have forgotten that, and many just want a quick fix...

Whether you realize it or not you sound a little smug in your post. Sort of “look at me, I always did everything right and lost 10-15 lbs so if you didn’t do that it is all your moral failing. Too bad you can’t be like me.” The way you said to follow “a diabetic diet” makes me wonder if you understand that there are different types of Diabetes or if you think Diabetes is all just life style related. No matter how much diet and nutrition counseling my Type 1 relatives do, their pancreas is not just going to start making insulin again. Insulin is life support for them. Also, despite working hard to maintain control over their blood sugar, hormones, the heat, unexpected changes to a routine, illness, can all lead to low blood sugar which requires them to drink or eat rapid acting glucose like juice or smarties candies.

Do you have ADHD? Because I do and wasn’t diagnosed with it until my 50’s. I went to counselors over the years. All misdiagnosed me with “generalized anxiety disorder” which I didn’t have. My brain is just always working at 100 percent. I have never taken ADHD medication or any medication for anxiety or depression. Instead I worked harder than most people in order to live in a world where linear nonADHD people make most of the rules. It is f*** exhausting and draining sometimes and doesn’t lend itself to many dopamine inducing moments. I am still managing my ADHD on my own because it is so hard to get in to see a counselor or doctor for it. You act like getting medication or counseling is easy. It’s not. There are waiting lists to see people, insurance doesn’t necessarily cover it, and it is really expensive. I don’t think it is any easier for weight loss.

My ADHD is a biological condition not a character or moral condition and for decades I’ve listened to some nonADHD individuals say all sorts of judgmental things about kids and adults with ADHD along the lines of “what’s wrong with them, they should do this like me or my way.” I am sick of it. People are different. Our genes are different. Our body chemistry is different. Some of us are more different than others. We are not all round pegs that can be put in a round hole. We have many different shapes with lots of different angles. Are some people using Ozempic as an easy way to weight loss? Probably (especially public figures and celebrities). Are a lot of people in need of help losing weight because losing the traditional way is much, much harder for them than for you? Yes. A thousand times yes and if it will help them avoid adverse health outcomes from weight gain that is probably a good thing.

+1

All of this, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will remain a deeply troubled society as long as we deny science and assert that ‘willpower’ and ‘character’ are actual things that are stronger than intricately evolved hormones functioning in a biological being.

Nova on PBS just did a couple of episodes on neuroscience called Your Brain. They are designed for non scientists to grasp and reveal the complexities of the human brain and the reality that so much of what we think we are is just not true.

The obesity epidemic is a biological response to a broken food system that is entirely predictable given what we already know about how the human body works, including the brain and gut. Thin people are accidents of genetics and quite often not healthy - weight is not determinative of health, all the research bears that out.

Folks here who settle on an attitude of superiority because they haven’t fallen victim to the obesity epidemic are just proving how ignorant they are of science and when they argue at the science they just prove that they are willfully ignorant which is about the worst ‘character’ a person can develop in life.

I have not fallen victim to the "obesity epidemic" because whenever I have gained 10-15 lbs, I step back, change my diet and exercise more. I realize it is much easier to control at only 10lb+ than at 50lbs. There is no magic drug for weight loss. People can use it in conjunction with diet, but diet and exercise must be a part of a long term plan. Follow a diabetic diet and most will loose weight. Watch your carbs, and even then make the carbs you do eat be "healthy carbs"---so sweet potatoes and other starchy veggies and fruits....mostly eliminate breads, sweets, worthless carbs and calories from your diet and you will be healthier and loose some weight. We should be eating plates filled with low carb veggies, a few fruits and starchy veggies (not white potatoes) and good quality protein. Do that for 2-3 months along with some exercise and most will loose weight and be healthier.

It's very similar to ADHD medication---imo, nobody should just take the medication without therapy in conjunction. Yes, kids and adults benefit from the drugs, but they will do much better if they have therapy along with it to help them learn how to deal with it. Similar to diabetics---don't just give them medications, but also give them diet/nutrition counseling and help them make those changes. Medications alone will not solve these issues, they need to be used along with therapies, dietary changes, exercise, etc. We as a society have forgotten that, and many just want a quick fix...

But there are magic drugs for weight loss and ADHD. How does therapy help what these drugs prove is a chemical imbalance?

The drugs help balance the chemicals, but the therapy helps provide guidance for how to deal with ADHD. Very few people have just adhd alone that a magic pill will solve all problems. Most have low EF, anxiety, etc along with it. Therapy helps them deal with lack of Exec functioning, impulse control, etc. Used together it is much more useful than just a pill and no changes to your life. Teaching a kid about impulse control and giving them the tools to deal with their issues in conjunction with medication to help them will be 1000x better than just the medication.

Same for weight loss---the drug may help you, but ultimately goal is to develop a healthier lifestyle so you don't always need the drug, or don't need higher levels of the drug. A type 2 Diabetic can reverse course with diet and exercise---they can keep themselves off of insulin, or reduce the insulin dosage. And for weight loss, you want to develop a healthier lifestyle so you can maintain the weight loss without being on drugs the rest of your life. It is possible, but you have to do some work, it's not a magic pill. But Seems much better to take the meds, jumpstart loosing weight and develop a plan for better eating, exercising, etc.
But most Americans just want the magic pills and "simple solution"
Very few people have medical issues that make them obese, they have choices they make in life that cause it. Ultimately you want to address those issues and therapy along with nutrition counseling/exercise counseling will help maintain a healthy lifestyle for decades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We will remain a deeply troubled society as long as we deny science and assert that ‘willpower’ and ‘character’ are actual things that are stronger than intricately evolved hormones functioning in a biological being.

Nova on PBS just did a couple of episodes on neuroscience called Your Brain. They are designed for non scientists to grasp and reveal the complexities of the human brain and the reality that so much of what we think we are is just not true.

The obesity epidemic is a biological response to a broken food system that is entirely predictable given what we already know about how the human body works, including the brain and gut. Thin people are accidents of genetics and quite often not healthy - weight is not determinative of health, all the research bears that out.

Folks here who settle on an attitude of superiority because they haven’t fallen victim to the obesity epidemic are just proving how ignorant they are of science and when they argue at the science they just prove that they are willfully ignorant which is about the worst ‘character’ a person can develop in life.

I have not fallen victim to the "obesity epidemic" because whenever I have gained 10-15 lbs, I step back, change my diet and exercise more. I realize it is much easier to control at only 10lb+ than at 50lbs. There is no magic drug for weight loss. People can use it in conjunction with diet, but diet and exercise must be a part of a long term plan. Follow a diabetic diet and most will loose weight. Watch your carbs, and even then make the carbs you do eat be "healthy carbs"---so sweet potatoes and other starchy veggies and fruits....mostly eliminate breads, sweets, worthless carbs and calories from your diet and you will be healthier and loose some weight. We should be eating plates filled with low carb veggies, a few fruits and starchy veggies (not white potatoes) and good quality protein. Do that for 2-3 months along with some exercise and most will loose weight and be healthier.

It's very similar to ADHD medication---imo, nobody should just take the medication without therapy in conjunction. Yes, kids and adults benefit from the drugs, but they will do much better if they have therapy along with it to help them learn how to deal with it. Similar to diabetics---don't just give them medications, but also give them diet/nutrition counseling and help them make those changes. Medications alone will not solve these issues, they need to be used along with therapies, dietary changes, exercise, etc. We as a society have forgotten that, and many just want a quick fix...

Whether you realize it or not you sound a little smug in your post. Sort of “look at me, I always did everything right and lost 10-15 lbs so if you didn’t do that it is all your moral failing. Too bad you can’t be like me.” The way you said to follow “a diabetic diet” makes me wonder if you understand that there are different types of Diabetes or if you think Diabetes is all just life style related. No matter how much diet and nutrition counseling my Type 1 relatives do, their pancreas is not just going to start making insulin again. Insulin is life support for them. Also, despite working hard to maintain control over their blood sugar, hormones, the heat, unexpected changes to a routine, illness, can all lead to low blood sugar which requires them to drink or eat rapid acting glucose like juice or smarties candies.

Do you have ADHD? Because I do and wasn’t diagnosed with it until my 50’s. I went to counselors over the years. All misdiagnosed me with “generalized anxiety disorder” which I didn’t have. My brain is just always working at 100 percent. I have never taken ADHD medication or any medication for anxiety or depression. Instead I worked harder than most people in order to live in a world where linear nonADHD people make most of the rules. It is f*** exhausting and draining sometimes and doesn’t lend itself to many dopamine inducing moments. I am still managing my ADHD on my own because it is so hard to get in to see a counselor or doctor for it. You act like getting medication or counseling is easy. It’s not. There are waiting lists to see people, insurance doesn’t necessarily cover it, and it is really expensive. I don’t think it is any easier for weight loss.

My ADHD is a biological condition not a character or moral condition and for decades I’ve listened to some nonADHD individuals say all sorts of judgmental things about kids and adults with ADHD along the lines of “what’s wrong with them, they should do this like me or my way.” I am sick of it. People are different. Our genes are different. Our body chemistry is different. Some of us are more different than others. We are not all round pegs that can be put in a round hole. We have many different shapes with lots of different angles. Are some people using Ozempic as an easy way to weight loss? Probably (especially public figures and celebrities). Are a lot of people in need of help losing weight because losing the traditional way is much, much harder for them than for you? Yes. A thousand times yes and if it will help them avoid adverse health outcomes from weight gain that is probably a good thing.

Obviously I know the difference. Type 1 is very different and diet has nothing to do with it.
I was referring to type 2, which I know well as many in my family have it. I've watched some manage it extremely well with diet and exercise, and others just not try and then complain when it causes issues. I am working hard to avoid becoming type 2 myself due to strong genetics. I also have spent the last 6 years adjusting my diet to solve many autoimmune issues that were causing me to gain weight, have rashes all over my body, cause major digestion issues, etc. I was miserable, regular docs solutions were "steroid cream for rashes" and just deal with IBS. I choose to find the underlying cause of my issues, adjust diet, do the hard work to feel better---ironically antibiotics, BCP, and other meds likely caused my leaky gut and lead to all of my issues, because I am predisposed to autoimmune issues. So instead of taking more pills to mask the issues and not really feel better, I choose to find solutions, no matter how difficult.
So I know that adjusting diet is not easy---I've lived it. I've followed a restricted diet and limit my sugars and carbs so my body is not in dissarray.

I'm not ADHD, but I have 2 nephews who are and my own kid is. So I am well versed in what life with ADHD is like. I fully understand it is a biological condition. But I know that it is often paired with other issues such as lack of EF, anxiety, and helping to address those issues with therapy can often bring the best results. So I know that the meds help but also have many side effects and therapy has helped all of them learn to deal with these issues in conjunction with the medications. We saw huge benefits from just the meds, but the addition of therapy to help the kid(s) learn to deal with this were huge as well. However for one of the kids, the meds had major side effects and eventually they chose to not medicate, and use caffeine when they need to "self medicate". They reacted poorly to various meds and even if taking an extended release at 8am, could not sleep that night, even an adderall at 10am would keep them up. So eventually therapies and caffeine were the better choice. Their college friends noticed a huge personality difference when they were on the meds vs not on the meds (hint: for them it was scary how out of it they sometimes were on the meds, very different high strung kid).