WashPost: College is remade as tech majors surge and humanities dwindle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills most companies need.
You hire those CS new grads and train them. Good CS new grads are supposed to be highly trainable.
That's what college is for. You only want experienced employees and complain... sigh.

+1 I find these hiring managers want all kinds of experience but want to pay little for all that experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am have a BA in art, DH has a BA in English, we both have law degrees and successful public policy careers.

Our kids will study what they are passionate about, likely not STEM (their decision not ours) and we are lucky they will come out of college without student debt. That would be my goal for them regardless of whether we were full pay or full FA and regardless of major. We fall in the middle, the proverbial donut hole that can afford a private school with decent merit aid or public.

I strongly believe that engaging deeply in subjects that interest you will lead to stronger critical thinking skills than forcing a particular major because of perceived marketability. My kid’s are good at math but their greatest strengths lie in the humanities. We also will support them in learning how you turn a humanities degree into a career. It’s not that we don’t believe they should get good jobs, we just don’t agree there is only one way.

+1. I am with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn’t the humanities, it’s that middle class people have been told that college is the path to a good career, which they translated as trade school.

In the old days, only children of nobles went to college, and the purpose of a college education was anything but a “job.” Actually getting a “job” was beneath them. But the purpose of college education has changed greatly over the years. Yes, most students and their parents look at colleges as no different in essence from trade schools.

That said, why force kids into STEM if they don’t have a passion for it? CS and engineering undergraduate education is no joke. There’s a reason why engineering schools (at least the decent ones) have high washout rates. Kids are not going to thrive in anything they don’t have a passion for.

Maybe brilliant students who get 750 or higher on math without prepping can do well in STEM at T50 school even if they’re not that thrilled with STEM, but these lost children who have their parents manage their college application process, need to prep to get good SAT scores, and think using Khan Academy to get a good grade on an AP test is hard don’t seem like a great fit for physics for physics majors at a good school.

A lot of the parents here are just trying to push their kids into a wood chipper without understanding what they’re doing.

+1

It has been happening for decades, just worse now. I knew at least 3 kids in college who hated their premed classes with a passion. yet they all did NOT have the guts to tell their parents, because they were worried about the response. So many spent an extra year taking premed courses before they finally gave up and switched courses, typically after killing their gpa with Orgo. I cannot imagine doing that to my kid---college is their path to figure out. I provide guidance and help them understand what future jobs will be possible with various degrees. But it's their path to figure out and study what they love and want to do in the future. I already had that opportunity.

+1. I have noted that many of the kids going to my daughter’s out of state flagship AND UMD seem to be signed up for premed. Lots and lots and lots.

I can’t believe all these kids came up with that on their own? Neuroscience, neurophysiology, biology, chemistry , bio, science out the wazoo.

Listen, my DH is an MD. No way are all these kids going to make it to the end. We could t believe it when we were at University of Florida info session for admitted students and a mom walked up to us and said “My daughter will study to be a neurosurgeon”. My husband turned to me and said “ and how does she know her child is actually going to achieve this?”

It’s nice to dream and to try but becoming a physician is a very long and arduous journey. And highly competitive too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Then you don’t want college grads. You want people who have a certification in a specific code, since in a year you’ll be listing different ones and the following year also different ones.

+1

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn’t the humanities, it’s that middle class people have been told that college is the path to a good career, which they translated as trade school.

In the old days, only children of nobles went to college, and the purpose of a college education was anything but a “job.” Actually getting a “job” was beneath them. But the purpose of college education has changed greatly over the years. Yes, most students and their parents look at colleges as no different in essence from trade schools.

That said, why force kids into STEM if they don’t have a passion for it? CS and engineering undergraduate education is no joke. There’s a reason why engineering schools (at least the decent ones) have high washout rates. Kids are not going to thrive in anything they don’t have a passion for.

Maybe brilliant students who get 750 or higher on math without prepping can do well in STEM at T50 school even if they’re not that thrilled with STEM, but these lost children who have their parents manage their college application process, need to prep to get good SAT scores, and think using Khan Academy to get a good grade on an AP test is hard don’t seem like a great fit for physics for physics majors at a good school.

A lot of the parents here are just trying to push their kids into a wood chipper without understanding what they’re doing.

+1

It has been happening for decades, just worse now. I knew at least 3 kids in college who hated their premed classes with a passion. yet they all did NOT have the guts to tell their parents, because they were worried about the response. So many spent an extra year taking premed courses before they finally gave up and switched courses, typically after killing their gpa with Orgo. I cannot imagine doing that to my kid---college is their path to figure out. I provide guidance and help them understand what future jobs will be possible with various degrees. But it's their path to figure out and study what they love and want to do in the future. I already had that opportunity.

+1. I have noted that many of the kids going to my daughter’s out of state flagship AND UMD seem to be signed up for premed. Lots and lots and lots.

I can’t believe all these kids came up with that on their own? Neuroscience, neurophysiology, biology, chemistry , bio, science out the wazoo.

Listen, my DH is an MD. No way are all these kids going to make it to the end. We could t believe it when we were at University of Florida info session for admitted students and a mom walked up to us and said “My daughter will study to be a neurosurgeon”. My husband turned to me and said “ and how does she know her child is actually going to achieve this?”

It’s nice to dream and to try but becoming a physician is a very long and arduous journey. And highly competitive too!

In today's environment, it's not worth the stress and time to become a physician. If you do not specialize, you are not making that much, after malpractice insurance, etc. You are not that well paid for your time, long hours in undergrad, medical school and residency vs what it costs you to accomplish that. You will do much better in engineering or something else like that financially than being a doctor. I've always said that---if you do not want to go into medicine because you have a passion for it, you are in the wrong place. The education alone is so expensive. Much better to get your BS in engineering (which most who would survive med school could manage), start working at 22 and not spend $300K on medical school and other 3-4 years in residency working long hours for minimal pay, having to put off having a family until you are settled oftentimes.

I just cannot imagine telling my kid what to major in---ours have picked their own paths and are happy. That's what we want. Now, we have explained to them and discussed what career paths are available for what they are interested in. And that you can't live a BMW lifestyle in a career that has Kia pay typically---so pick whatever you want, but be realistic about the loans you take for college and what your pay will be the first 5 years out. So if you have 2 things you equally love, then maybe consider the one that is best to support your lifestyle/pay the bills with wiggle room. So pick what you are passionate about but with the reality of what that means for the future.

One loves math and chem but hates lab work so was guided towards engineering, as someone with a chemistry degree will largely be doing lab work, and needs a MS or PHD to do the real work and not be a grunt worker in someone else's lab. Also discussed that with only a BA/BS you will do that work for lower wages until you get the higher degree. so for a kid who does not want their phd, chemistry is probably not the best choice. Turns out that was a good choices as after freshman year the kid decided Chem is not what they would ever want to major in, but Chem Eng (which they had already picked) is a much much better fit---turns out the kid loves fluids and transport and everything math, so added a cs/data science minor that will blend well with their Chem Eng major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills most companies need.
You hire those CS new grads and train them. Good CS new grads are supposed to be highly trainable.
That's what college is for. You only want experienced employees and complain... sigh.

Exactly, that’s how most CS hiring works, take the new grads at lower cost, swap them for newer grads in ten years. A field that gives lip service to experience, but doesn’t actually pay for experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must we have this discussion for the 40 thousandth time on this page? Let your kid major in that they want, are interested in, have a passion for and a talent for. End of story.

It’s advice like this that has caused the student loan crisis

No, it’s colleges accepting kids who are unlikely to do well or finish. And for profit degree mills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

[Anonymous]

Every law partner in my neighborhood was a history or poly sci or English major. The head of the CIA and Secretary of Defense went to a liberal arts college and majored in history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn’t the humanities, it’s that middle class people have been told that college is the path to a good career, which they translated as trade school.

In the old days, only children of nobles went to college, and the purpose of a college education was anything but a “job.” Actually getting a “job” was beneath them. But the purpose of college education has changed greatly over the years. Yes, most students and their parents look at colleges as no different in essence from trade schools.

That said, why force kids into STEM if they don’t have a passion for it? CS and engineering undergraduate education is no joke. There’s a reason why engineering schools (at least the decent ones) have high washout rates. Kids are not going to thrive in anything they don’t have a passion for.

Maybe brilliant students who get 750 or higher on math without prepping can do well in STEM at T50 school even if they’re not that thrilled with STEM, but these lost children who have their parents manage their college application process, need to prep to get good SAT scores, and think using Khan Academy to get a good grade on an AP test is hard don’t seem like a great fit for physics for physics majors at a good school.

A lot of the parents here are just trying to push their kids into a wood chipper without understanding what they’re doing.

+1

It has been happening for decades, just worse now. I knew at least 3 kids in college who hated their premed classes with a passion. yet they all did NOT have the guts to tell their parents, because they were worried about the response. So many spent an extra year taking premed courses before they finally gave up and switched courses, typically after killing their gpa with Orgo. I cannot imagine doing that to my kid---college is their path to figure out. I provide guidance and help them understand what future jobs will be possible with various degrees. But it's their path to figure out and study what they love and want to do in the future. I already had that opportunity.

+1. I have noted that many of the kids going to my daughter’s out of state flagship AND UMD seem to be signed up for premed. Lots and lots and lots.

I can’t believe all these kids came up with that on their own? Neuroscience, neurophysiology, biology, chemistry , bio, science out the wazoo.

Listen, my DH is an MD. No way are all these kids going to make it to the end. We could t believe it when we were at University of Florida info session for admitted students and a mom walked up to us and said “My daughter will study to be a neurosurgeon”. My husband turned to me and said “ and how does she know her child is actually going to achieve this?”

It’s nice to dream and to try but becoming a physician is a very long and arduous journey. And highly competitive too!

In today's environment, it's not worth the stress and time to become a physician. If you do not specialize, you are not making that much, after malpractice insurance, etc. You are not that well paid for your time, long hours in undergrad, medical school and residency vs what it costs you to accomplish that. You will do much better in engineering or something else like that financially than being a doctor. I've always said that---if you do not want to go into medicine because you have a passion for it, you are in the wrong place. The education alone is so expensive. Much better to get your BS in engineering (which most who would survive med school could manage), start working at 22 and not spend $300K on medical school and other 3-4 years in residency working long hours for minimal pay, having to put off having a family until you are settled oftentimes.

I just cannot imagine telling my kid what to major in---ours have picked their own paths and are happy. That's what we want. Now, we have explained to them and discussed what career paths are available for what they are interested in. And that you can't live a BMW lifestyle in a career that has Kia pay typically---so pick whatever you want, but be realistic about the loans you take for college and what your pay will be the first 5 years out. So if you have 2 things you equally love, then maybe consider the one that is best to support your lifestyle/pay the bills with wiggle room. So pick what you are passionate about but with the reality of what that means for the future.

One loves math and chem but hates lab work so was guided towards engineering, as someone with a chemistry degree will largely be doing lab work, and needs a MS or PHD to do the real work and not be a grunt worker in someone else's lab. Also discussed that with only a BA/BS you will do that work for lower wages until you get the higher degree. so for a kid who does not want their phd, chemistry is probably not the best choice. Turns out that was a good choices as after freshman year the kid decided Chem is not what they would ever want to major in, but Chem Eng (which they had already picked) is a much much better fit---turns out the kid loves fluids and transport and everything math, so added a cs/data science minor that will blend well with their Chem Eng major.

OK. You like engineering.

No reason to dampen one's desire to be a doctor. We'll still need physicians in droves going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

There really aren’t. College grads land in jobs, it isn’t always obvious why a history major is doing UI/UX but it works out. Anyway you can say the same for engineers/CS some leverage it into management, but most are cubicle drones doing repetitive office work, with no self-actualiztion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

There really aren’t. College grads land in jobs, it isn’t always obvious why a history major is doing UI/UX but it works out. Anyway you can say the same for engineers/CS some leverage it into management, but most are cubicle drones doing repetitive office work, with no self-actualiztion.[/quote]

Work is a place to make money, full stop. Looking for “self-actualization” in your career is only for trust fund kids. For everyone else, work is a way to gain financial stability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

There really aren’t. College grads land in jobs, it isn’t always obvious why a history major is doing UI/UX but it works out. Anyway you can say the same for engineers/CS some leverage it into management, but most are cubicle drones doing repetitive office work, with no self-actualiztion.

Work is a place to make money, full stop. Looking for “self-actualization” in your career is only for trust fund kids. For everyone else, work is a way to gain financial stability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.

Can you not read? I said most engineers do not go for a graduate degree and have stable - but not astronomical salaries. They stay at that $200k range.

Liberal arts/humanities from a great school—well-read, excellent writers, consolidate many facts do go onto to advanced degrees/professional degrees and these are the people with the 7-figure salaries in my neighborhood. The engineers and scientists like me are Feds and govt contractors making just around $200k still after 25 years.

And I have two kids that excel in BOTH in STEM and history/English/Modern languages. 5s on all AP exams and straight AS. Some of us can do both just as well—left AND right brained with high EQ.

But here is the problem: For every liberal arts graduate making seven-digit income, there are a hundred if not a thousand liberal arts graduates sitting in their mommy’s basement tweeting how unfair the society is.

There really aren’t. College grads land in jobs, it isn’t always obvious why a history major is doing UI/UX but it works out. Anyway you can say the same for engineers/CS some leverage it into management, but most are cubicle drones doing repetitive office work, with no self-actualiztion.

The key to anyone’s lifelong career growth (or entrepreneurship if they decide to start their own) is not about which major they chose. There is no dispute that engineering and CS majors coming out of school have a huge advantage over LA/social studies majors in their first professional job. But even a lot of engineers can’t really maintain their career path in engineering over a lifetime. Technology advances too fast. The key is being able to learn new things and adapt to change. The smart and diligent ones can learn and adapt regardless of whether they majored in STEM or LA a long time ago. The stupid and lazy ones can’t (although those people most likely would not have survived any half-decent engineering school’s BS program anyway, let alone any respectable engineering school).