WashPost: College is remade as tech majors surge and humanities dwindle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must we have this discussion for the 40 thousandth time on this page? Let your kid major in that they want, are interested in, have a passion for and a talent for. End of story.

+1

DCUMland is not happy unless they are picking their child's major, school, friends, and everything else for the kid. No wonder there are issues.

The best education you can give your kid is the ability for the kid to make their own choices.

And the ability to think for themselves!

.. and get into debt because they picked a major where they couldn't get a job. Or, they come from family money so, it doesn't matter what they study. They will never know what it means to struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Then you don’t want college grads. You want people who have a certification in a specific code, since in a year you’ll be listing different ones and the following year also different ones.

DP.. no. Good programmers know how to solve complex problems, not just how to code. One can get a certificate to code, but not necessarily know how to code to address complex issues.

CS degrees require higher level math, in part, to learn how to address more complex issues that require a certain way of complex thinking. You don't get that with a certification program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

[Anonymous]

There’s another thread about AI destroying white collar jobs. With this year’s massive layoffs, CS majors are definitely in oversupply. Besides, most grunt level programming jobs—why do you need a CS degree anyway? In its heydays SV was hiring college freshmen without degrees. Also, not necessarily CS majors. Any AE, ME, EE, or even liberal arts majors can do it. Coding is not that hard. Now AI is advancing by leaps and bounds. A decade from now the future AI will make today’s AI look like ka-ching cash registers of the 1970’s (if you are old enough to remember those). Sorry. The future is bleak for a lot of jobs regardless of your major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s another thread about AI destroying white collar jobs. With this year’s massive layoffs, CS majors are definitely in oversupply. Besides, most grunt level programming jobs—why do you need a CS degree anyway? In its heydays SV was hiring college freshmen without degrees. Also, not necessarily CS majors. Any AE, ME, EE, or even liberal arts majors can do it. Coding is not that hard. Now AI is advancing by leaps and bounds. A decade from now the future AI will make today’s AI look like ka-ching cash registers of the 1970’s (if you are old enough to remember those). Sorry. The future is bleak for a lot of jobs regardless of your major.

You must be a "Zero Hedge" subscriber. Sky is falling!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn’t the humanities, it’s that middle class people have been told that college is the path to a good career, which they translated as trade school.

In the old days, only children of nobles went to college, and the purpose of a college education was anything but a “job.” Actually getting a “job” was beneath them. But the purpose of college education has changed greatly over the years. Yes, most students and their parents look at colleges as no different in essence from trade schools.

That said, why force kids into STEM if they don’t have a passion for it? CS and engineering undergraduate education is no joke. There’s a reason why engineering schools (at least the decent ones) have high washout rates. Kids are not going to thrive in anything they don’t have a passion for.

Maybe brilliant students who get 750 or higher on math without prepping can do well in STEM at T50 school even if they’re not that thrilled with STEM, but these lost children who have their parents manage their college application process, need to prep to get good SAT scores, and think using Khan Academy to get a good grade on an AP test is hard don’t seem like a great fit for physics for physics majors at a good school.

A lot of the parents here are just trying to push their kids into a wood chipper without understanding what they’re doing.

+1

It has been happening for decades, just worse now. I knew at least 3 kids in college who hated their premed classes with a passion. yet they all did NOT have the guts to tell their parents, because they were worried about the response. So many spent an extra year taking premed courses before they finally gave up and switched courses, typically after killing their gpa with Orgo. I cannot imagine doing that to my kid---college is their path to figure out. I provide guidance and help them understand what future jobs will be possible with various degrees. But it's their path to figure out and study what they love and want to do in the future. I already had that opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/19/college-majors-computer-science-humanities/

That’s expected. But in the future, if there are too many CS graduates and too few English and history graduates, the supply and demand relationship might change.

How many opening a year do you think there are for newly minted history BAs? I’d be shocked if there were any

There are plenty of places that hire and then train and just want "anyone with a BS/BA". They are looking for people with the ability to communicate, with critical thinking skills who are willing to work hard. Some even put you thru a full day of personality/critical thinking testing and if you don't make the cut, you don't even start interviewing. Hint: only ~15% make the cut where my kid is. Tons of humanities and social sciences majors working with/along side busines/finance/stem majors.
I know a NMFinalist who has graduated college, I consider really really smart and was a psychology major and eventually plans to go onto PHD in psych and couldn't even get to the interview round yet my "average, no APs in HS, struggled initially in college, 1200 Sat kid, cannot test their way out of a box kid" landed a job and is doing great--in fact my kid had multiple rounds of interviews, and has since been told it was their critical thinking skills that were a large part of why they wanted them as an employee. My kid is NOT a humanities major--was a business major. But still, has a great job because of their crucial thinking skills, not their major specifically.

So none. All of those jobs would also take a cs or chem major.

By the time your kid who was forced to be a CS or Chem major against their will/wishes graduates college and is job searching, they might not do so well on the "day of testing" because you have managed to kill their critical thinking/love of learning and desire to excel in life by forcing them into a narrow path that makes you happy.

Or your kid could major in what they want to with a plan for a career path (do art history, and minor in business or marketing to make yourself more "marketable") and be doing the same job as someone with a chem degree and getting paid the same. However the art history kid is happier with life and actually able to do a better job because of that since they chose their own path, not mommy & daddy's path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must we have this discussion for the 40 thousandth time on this page? Let your kid major in that they want, are interested in, have a passion for and a talent for. End of story.

Is there any proof you encouraged your kid to be a sociology, art, or music major? Easy to tell other parents to let THEIR kids do sociology, anthropology... all the while berating your kids to go into lucrative major$.

NP: if my kid did not like any STEM fields, I certainly would not force them into it. Turns out one of my kids is a math whiz, so while they could do a humanities major, they excel and prefer math/science so will be an Engineer---their choice. So this kid would be miserable if we forced them to pick a Humanities major. But if they wanted to do that, of course they could. We would encourage them to get thru college with minimal debt, and we would make sure they are aware of what job opportunities will be, and to try to get any type of internship to help. We would also strongly encourage a business/data science/some type of minor to help provide more marketable skills with just a BA degree.
College is about learning, building writing and communication skills, developing critical thinking at an advanced level and so much more. And if finances are an issue, then I would encourage you to find a place that is affordable--I recommend this with any degree, including stem, as it's never worth going into debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/19/college-majors-computer-science-humanities/

That’s expected. But in the future, if there are too many CS graduates and too few English and history graduates, the supply and demand relationship might change.

Why would it change? Why would English and history majors be in demand unless it's for teaching English or history?

English and history majors have the capacity to think critically and write well. Perhaps it could be if value to someone someday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

a few things
1. keyword = top 10 university.
2. engineers usually don't stay engineers, they become all sorts of managers, directors, vice presidents/presidents, CEOs
3. sure it can happen to humanities majors, but we are talking on the average and median.
Heck how about major in theater and become rich and famous movie star or major in music and become a rock star LOL.
Overall cs/engineering >>>>>>>> humanities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills most companies need.
You hire those CS new grads and train them. Good CS new grads are supposed to be highly trainable.
That's what college is for. You only want experienced employees and complain... sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I could find new grads who could code Verilog or Embedded C/POSIX, I would hire 5 today. I’d pay more if they had experience with ARM assembly and could do kernel debugging or Verilog verification.

As it is, I do not have any work for the numerous Java/PHP/Python/x86 assembly programmers whose resumes flood in. Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills we need. We pay above average for people with the right skills… sigh.

Most CS new grads do not have the knowledge or skills most companies need.
You hire those CS new grads and train them. Good CS new grads are supposed to be highly trainable.
That's what college is for. You only want experienced employees and complain... sigh.

+1000
Those CS grads will be more trainable and have better critical thinking skills than most "got my 6 month certification in X" employee will. That's the entire purpose of getting a college degree---to teach you how to think and gain the skills needed for problem solving in the future. Very few jobs were coding in binary even 30 years ago when I got my CS degree. Yet I had to take that class (and surprisingly I enjoyed it unlike most students) because it taught me about the underlying structure of computers and how they work. A college degree is not "training" it's so much more. Anyone who actually completes a CS degree should have good critical thinking skills and problem solving capabilities for any job in the future

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Must we have this discussion for the 40 thousandth time on this page? Let your kid major in that they want, are interested in, have a passion for and a talent for. End of story.

+1

DCUMland is not happy unless they are picking their child's major, school, friends, and everything else for the kid. No wonder there are issues.

The best education you can give your kid is the ability for the kid to make their own choices.

And the ability to think for themselves!

.. and get into debt because they picked a major where they couldn't get a job. Or, they come from family money so, it doesn't matter what they study. They will never know what it means to struggle.

So many incorrect assumptions on your part, so little time to address them.......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The collapse in humanities majors is not just because of the popularity of tech majors in the modern economy. Humanities are becoming a joke on many campuses. People talking about their humanities degrees from 30 years go keep forgetting it's not 1993 any more. There's been a revolution in how the humanities are taught and the academic experience is, let's put it as politely as possible, not as rigorous or insightful as it once was. Because of the courses taught by the current generation of college professors, fewer students are drawn to the humanities.

I do think higher education is going to go through a massive restructuring in the next few decades as people reevaluate their relationship with colleges and studying, especially in the age of AI in conjunction with the new ideological attitudes that have come to dominate higher education, and, of course costs.

Agree. I have no issue with humanities students who study hard and excel in their fields. But on average their study habits and work ethic are far worse than engineering students. Too many humanities students party too much and have too many distractions during 4 years of college. The bad news is that employers know it. Even those jobs that don’t require specialized technical knowledge, they know the difference between the work ethic of an engineering student v. a humanities student, unless the humanities student is from a top school with a top GPA.

I work with scientists, and by and large they are a bunch of entitled whiners. Their work ethic only extends to what strokes their ego.

DP..

Engineering majors get paid a lot more with an undergrad than most humanities majors, and there's a reason for that.

Engineering salaries are flat. Period. They usually do not go on to an advanced degree and don’t break $200k over time.

I’m a female STEM BS/MS that works with a ton of engineers. I make $180k/yr 28 years in my career.

I’m married to a Humanities major from a top 10 university. He went into software consulting started @$39k and was making $300k when he went independent 5 years later and makes around $550k. Just a BA.

I’m literally the only STEM worker in my entire wealthy neighborhood filled with lawyers and lobbyists and a few TV new/policy commentators.

My dear, you understand that lawyers need an advanced degree, right? While engineering majors don't to make that six figures.

Also, as a STEM major, you really ought to understand statistics vs anecdata.

Also, as a somewhat intelligent person, you should also understand that a humanities major at a T10 can use connections and networks to get the high paying jobs. The vast majority of humanities majors did not/do not go to a T10, and they don't make six figures 10 years out without a graduate degree, whereas engineering majors do, without a graduate degree. There goes that pesky statistics again.