Do you care if your DC has perspective about their privilege?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books, documentaries, movies, YouTube videos, wikipedia articles, sometimes even social media posts.

You'll learn a lot more about the plight of the poor by reading a book written by a poor person than you will working alongside a poor person.

Huh? All this ensures is that you can pat yourself on the back for knowing all about poor people without ever actually knowing any poor people.

Also, a thing I'm seeing here is that rich people think there's them, and then poor people. No sense that there are people who are reasonably well-off, but not rich, or working class but not poor. It's like the world is made of people who need charity and people who can dispense it. That's the kind of nonsense I don't want my kid thinking. There is so much more to understand than "the plight of the poor." How can someone do good in the world if they understand it so little?

PP here and you’re reading too much into my statement. I agree that rich people tend to have a poor concept of class stratification but my comment about “the plight of the poor” was just one way that you’ll gain a greater understanding of an issue by reading broadly than you will by getting a low-class job. I honestly don’t know how you can dispute this. Like, if a white kid reads How The Other Half Banks, they will have a much better understanding of their privilege than they will just from working at McDonalds.

I’m the “Huh?…” poster and I don’t agree with you at all. I worked alongside some very down-and-out people when I was in my 20s in restaurant kitchens. People working two or three jobs, recent immigrants sending money to their families back home—there’s not a book in the world that can provide more perspective than actually working together with people, talking to them, understanding their humanity.

I'm not saying that kids should stay in a bubble and I'm not denying your experience. But it's very possible for somebody to work alongside a less-privileged person and still feel comfortable in their own privilege. I grew up poor and worked at a fast food place with kids whose parents had much less money than I did, and nothing I could have said to them would have made them think "you know, maybe there are structural issues at play here that favor me."

And you might already know this, but it's important to underscore that underprivileged people often don't want to just be the supporting characters in the story of a privileged person's personal growth. Nobody wants to feel used. But when a person who is underprivileged writes a novel or a book or even a twitter post sharing information and a perspective they hope others will hear, they can be the main characters of their own story.

It seems bizarre that people would push back so much against reading books written by underprivileged people, by the way. They want you and their kids to read them! Get your kids educated!

NO one is pushing back against reading books written by underprivileged people. They are saying that just reading books, without actually interacting with underprivileged people as coworkers, friends, peers, neighbors, etc., does not mean that you "understand" poor people. It's not about the poor people educating the rich people, it's about knowing them as people. It's really weird that you don't get that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t live in the DMV anymore.

The city I live in is mostly very poor & has extremely low-performing public schools. A group of (almost all white) local private day & boarding school students started a free tutoring program for the public school kids. The advertising specifically stated it was for “needy X school kids.” These wealthy kids’ (untrained teenagers, mind you) parents have a lot of clout here and got a spot reserved in an establishment in our local mall multiple times a week for tutoring. There were billboards for it, a website with its own domain name & other similar forms of advertisement. The program had an Instagram account, and would post pictures of them tutoring these kids in raggedy clothes. The whole thing was in such poor taste, I cringed every time I saw the billboards. It was clear the tutors were doing it for college admissions, and each year the tutors would go off to top colleges, and by year 4 it dwindled down to nothing. I doubt the tutors will ever live in this city again. So patronizing.

Moral of the story: don’t do what those private school kids did.

Why? This sounds like a great program. They are helping. Do you have an issue with that? Isn't that what they are supposed to do? It is not poor taste at all unless they staged the pictures.

The rich white savior complex of people who’d never actually attend those public schools or step foot in them is appalling. It’s so obviously being done for college admissions.

Did the poor public school kids actually benefit from this program? Like their scores went up, retention rate went up, etc?
If not, lets just say these rich kids were obviously half-assing it and just using these public school kids to polish their CV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The public school your child would attend if they weren’t in private is probably the same in terms of demographics if you have a 7 figure HHI.

Because you choose to live in a neighborhood where everyone is rich and mostly white. Move.

Why? I could care a crap less about the race. But why would I not live someplace where everyone is rich? That is where rich people live.

If you choose to live where everyone is rich, don’t use the old tired reasoning that the private you send you kids to is actually more diverse than the neighborhood public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books, documentaries, movies, YouTube videos, wikipedia articles, sometimes even social media posts.

You'll learn a lot more about the plight of the poor by reading a book written by a poor person than you will working alongside a poor person.

Huh? All this ensures is that you can pat yourself on the back for knowing all about poor people without ever actually knowing any poor people.

Also, a thing I'm seeing here is that rich people think there's them, and then poor people. No sense that there are people who are reasonably well-off, but not rich, or working class but not poor. It's like the world is made of people who need charity and people who can dispense it. That's the kind of nonsense I don't want my kid thinking. There is so much more to understand than "the plight of the poor." How can someone do good in the world if they understand it so little?

PP here and you’re reading too much into my statement. I agree that rich people tend to have a poor concept of class stratification but my comment about “the plight of the poor” was just one way that you’ll gain a greater understanding of an issue by reading broadly than you will by getting a low-class job. I honestly don’t know how you can dispute this. Like, if a white kid reads How The Other Half Banks, they will have a much better understanding of their privilege than they will just from working at McDonalds.

I'm laughing, because I have done both. And it's nonsense to say that you learn more from a book than you do from actually interacting with people. They are different kinds of knowledge and understanding.

Okay, but I learned way more about my privilege from reading How The Other Half Banks (and many other books, and many documentaries, etc.). Maybe I'm unique in that sense but understanding how financial and legal institutions in the US propped up White wealth and depressed Black wealth made me learn much more about my privilege than, say, talking to a Black friend about racism in high school. And as we all know, you can be a totally clueless casual racist even while living, working, and going to school alongside people of color, and I don't think that many clueless casual racists have read a ton of books written by diverse people. I am glad I grew up in a diverse area, but there were plenty of white kids who grew up in that same area who call the civil war "the war of Northern aggression" and think that slavery happened a long time ago so everybody should quit talking about it.

I am not saying that people should keep their kids in bubbles. OP asked what we do about our kids' privilege, and what I do is educate them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Books, documentaries, movies, YouTube videos, wikipedia articles, sometimes even social media posts.

You'll learn a lot more about the plight of the poor by reading a book written by a poor person than you will working alongside a poor person.

Huh? All this ensures is that you can pat yourself on the back for knowing all about poor people without ever actually knowing any poor people.

Also, a thing I'm seeing here is that rich people think there's them, and then poor people. No sense that there are people who are reasonably well-off, but not rich, or working class but not poor. It's like the world is made of people who need charity and people who can dispense it. That's the kind of nonsense I don't want my kid thinking. There is so much more to understand than "the plight of the poor." How can someone do good in the world if they understand it so little?

PP here and you’re reading too much into my statement. I agree that rich people tend to have a poor concept of class stratification but my comment about “the plight of the poor” was just one way that you’ll gain a greater understanding of an issue by reading broadly than you will by getting a low-class job. I honestly don’t know how you can dispute this. Like, if a white kid reads How The Other Half Banks, they will have a much better understanding of their privilege than they will just from working at McDonalds.

I’m the “Huh?…” poster and I don’t agree with you at all. I worked alongside some very down-and-out people when I was in my 20s in restaurant kitchens. People working two or three jobs, recent immigrants sending money to their families back home—there’s not a book in the world that can provide more perspective than actually working together with people, talking to them, understanding their humanity.

I'm not saying that kids should stay in a bubble and I'm not denying your experience. But it's very possible for somebody to work alongside a less-privileged person and still feel comfortable in their own privilege. I grew up poor and worked at a fast food place with kids whose parents had much less money than I did, and nothing I could have said to them would have made them think "you know, maybe there are structural issues at play here that favor me."

And you might already know this, but it's important to underscore that underprivileged people often don't want to just be the supporting characters in the story of a privileged person's personal growth. Nobody wants to feel used. But when a person who is underprivileged writes a novel or a book or even a twitter post sharing information and a perspective they hope others will hear, they can be the main characters of their own story.

It seems bizarre that people would push back so much against reading books written by underprivileged people, by the way. They want you and their kids to read them! Get your kids educated!

NO one is pushing back against reading books written by underprivileged people. They are saying that just reading books, without actually interacting with underprivileged people as coworkers, friends, peers, neighbors, etc., does not mean that you "understand" poor people. It's not about the poor people educating the rich people, it's about knowing them as people. It's really weird that you don't get that.

You can know people as people without understanding your privilege. This happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing worse than rich, privileged kids thinking they understand poor people because they watched a documentary or read an article or because their parents vacationed in a developing country. In many cases, I’d prefer they just lean into their out-of-touchness. That unbridled confidence that you pay so much for makes it hard for them to admit that there are things they just don’t understand. So maybe just stop trying to drill some sense of perspective into them and teach them to be humble sometimes.

I like this answer a lot

Also, as Bill Cosby said, "Your mother and I are rich. You have nothing."

If possible, make them work in demeaning, stressful jobs as teenagers, with strangers for bosses

Skip the summer internship at Uncle Ted's law firm

They'll still never really know the fear of growing up poor, but there are worse things to miss out on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you do, what do you do to help them gain some perspective?

No snarky responses, please, this is a real concern and it’s hard to have these conversations in person.

We love the bubble our k-8 provides our kids — caring, small community, focus on kindness, etc. We plan to keep them in private school all the way — I’m not debating the value of private school for our kids.

We are also a relatively well-off family — seven figure HHI. We live a nice lifestyle, and I’m happy with how we spend our money.

However, I don’t know if it’s possible for my kids to gain perspective on how fortunate we/they are, and that most of the world (even within in US) doesn’t live like we do. We talk about it, I talk about my own, very modest childhood. My kids do chores and they get told no when they want to buy things. They have visited where my family comes from (parents are immigrants, I’m a POC) and have seen the poverty that exists there.

But their daily life and exposure is large homes, lots of toys, expensive experiences, and just generally abundant. Also beautiful school grounds and lots of resources to support their goals.

I went to HYP from a low-income public school and was really turned off by the spoiled, entitled private school kids who mostly found each other. I don’t want my kids to end up that way.



[/quote

I have older friends who are rich. Their kids went to expensive private schools and had college fully paid for - no loans. They wanted to avoid having privileged, obnoxious, snobby little brats for kids.

This is what they did. They lived in a nice middle-class neighborhood, held regular jobs, drove mid-priced cars, did their own housekeeping, mowed their own lawn, etc. Their kids didn’t know how rich they were until they turned 18 and their parents began to educate them on managing their trust funds which they only began to have limited access to when they turned 25, with full access at 30.

Their kids are pretty awesome.

It can be done but not with the life you are choosing. If you are truly concerned, you would make different choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t say yes every time they ask for something.

Consider making them get a 30-40 hour/week summer job the summers going into 11th, 12th & freshman year of college. And I mean a physical or customer service job, not an “internship.” And yes, they might encounter “bad influences” there. By that age, they need to learn how to handle that sort of thing.

Oh my... why? They are still living in the lifestyle.

The real issue is can they maintain it when they are adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's important to me are aware of economic realities so that:

1) They don't come off as clueless pricks. I've heard middle school kids say things like, "You've never been to Hawaii/Disneyworld/the Bahamas?" "Can your nanny take us?" "Your mom won't let you buy a new dress? OMG!"

2) They don't call themselves "middle class" when statistically, we are not. Our HHI is well above the median. We choose to own a Honda minivan instead of a Mercedes SUV and we own a house without a swimming pool--but that does not make us "middle class."

3) They are grateful for what they have. Gratitude is key to contentment.

4) They don't make fun of people, even unintentionally, who have less money, work blue collar jobs, or don't have the knowledge that comes with privileged travel and experiences.

5) They have resilience. They are calm when something doesn't go their way because they realize that things usually go their way in their privileged bubble.

6) They have common sense. I don't want them to be taking Ubers around NYC and Boston because they won't navigate the subway or T. I don't want them to be wearing $800 Moncler coats that they'll forget at a friend's house, or worse, get stolen at gunpoint.

We live in the burbs and I was very unnerved by this area and how down right rich everyone is when we first moved here. The above is what I try to do, no poverty tours, and I tell my kids no, make them work and encourage them to save for things that they want. My MS son has too many private school friends with credit cards and Uber accounts and who want what they want, when they want it and no one is telling them no or making them wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's important to me are aware of economic realities so that:

1) They don't come off as clueless pricks. I've heard middle school kids say things like, "You've never been to Hawaii/Disneyworld/the Bahamas?" "Can your nanny take us?" "Your mom won't let you buy a new dress? OMG!"

2) They don't call themselves "middle class" when statistically, we are not. Our HHI is well above the median. We choose to own a Honda minivan instead of a Mercedes SUV and we own a house without a swimming pool--but that does not make us "middle class."

3) They are grateful for what they have. Gratitude is key to contentment.

4) They don't make fun of people, even unintentionally, who have less money, work blue collar jobs, or don't have the knowledge that comes with privileged travel and experiences.

5) They have resilience. They are calm when something doesn't go their way because they realize that things usually go their way in their privileged bubble.

6) They have common sense. I don't want them to be taking Ubers around NYC and Boston because they won't navigate the subway or T. I don't want them to be wearing $800 Moncler coats that they'll forget at a friend's house, or worse, get stolen at gunpoint.

We live in the burbs and I was very unnerved by this area and how down right rich everyone is when we first moved here. The above is what I try to do, no poverty tours, and I tell my kids no, make them work and encourage them to save for things that they want. My MS son has too many private school friends with credit cards and Uber accounts and who want what they want, when they want it and no one is telling them no or making them wait.

It’s your bubble. You only see the rich. Your child only sees the rich.

[Anonymous]

I have some very wealthy cousins whose parents, and especially father’s family are dramatically wealthier than the rest of the extended family. I was growing up in rust belt OH. These cousins were growing up in places like Boca Raton, Greenwich, Scarsdale, Lexington, Dallas, Los Gatos etc. They had private jets, trust funds & went to top privates. Anyway, it was clear when they’d come to visit my parents and I + our other cousins, these rich cousins viewed us as farm animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's important to me that my kids understand that they have privilege and they need to acknowledge that privilege. IF truly wanted to breakdown barriers and lift up others, I would have made different choices about where to live and where to send them to school - I didn't do that because I'm optimizing for my kids. I'm raising my kids to be generous and kind but that's not the same thing as sending them to a public school where they would be minorities in class or race. I think OP that you can't have it both ways - you've made a set of choices to reinforce your kids socio economic privilege and you can do things on the margin so they feel compassion for others, but they aren't going to "get it" in the way they would if you actually made different choices. This isn't a criticism btw, just a reality. It's also important that my kids know that my money isn't their money so they will need to go earn their own.

100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes I care. We found caviar that is kosher for passover and were eating that before the seder last night. DH pointed to the two jars and told the kids that a family can feed their family for a week on what those cost.

Also, we live in the city, and my kids have friends they know from random playgrounds, or dance or gymnastics or whatever, and those are not kids within their private school. They have playdates at people's 2 bedroom apartments, and at people's huge victorian mansions. They talk about going to Hawaii and hear adults say things like "I've never been there" or "Wow, I didn't go there for the first time until I was 34!"

And like yours, ours have chores and are given things to do. They help and are kind.

Hey, OP. I'd say don't take up the attitude this poster has. Blech

[Anonymous]

OP- Ot is absolutely possible to let kids enjoy their privileges while helping them to see and appreciate that privilege. Read books, watch movies, go to museum, talk politics and have the though conversations playing devils advocate or making them argue for a position different than their own natural position. Go on a mission trip or engage in meaningful service learning. Let them help you pick the charity for your donations. Be quick to correct any negative comments or stereotypes that they or their friends may make about cars, homes, jobs, parts of tow, etc. Make them work for things and learn to wait for things. Just because we can afford something doesn’t mean we get it immediately. Teach them to be respectful of everyone, like looking the waiter/waitress in the eye and using manners, or going to a fast food and practicing patience even when things go wrong.

You aren’t going to take away their privilege but you can make them kind, generous individuals capable of seeing beyond their own wants to be able to determine what’s best for the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s nothing worse than rich, privileged kids thinking they understand poor people because they watched a documentary or read an article or because their parents vacationed in a developing country. In many cases, I’d prefer they just lean into their out-of-touchness. That unbridled confidence that you pay so much for makes it hard for them to admit that there are things they just don’t understand. So maybe just stop trying to drill some sense of perspective into them and teach them to be humble sometimes.

I like this answer a lot

Also, as Bill Cosby said, "Your mother and I are rich. You have nothing."

If possible, make them work in demeaning, stressful jobs as teenagers, with strangers for bosses

Skip the summer internship at Uncle Ted's law firm

They'll still never really know the fear of growing up poor, but there are worse things to miss out on

+100. I still remember that Cosby line!