Why don't parents understand that their kids lie and/or misrepresent things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me the worst thing about this thread is this idea that students and teachers are in opposition and parents must “pick a side.” That’s a really unhealthy attitude about education.

Viewing that relationship as one of conflict, instead of trust/collaboration, likely drives students and teachers to lie, or at least massage the truth, more than they would otherwise.

Like others on this thread, I had a teacher lie about me to get me in trouble when I was a kid. She was definitely doing it in order to discredit me. I had been expressing frustration with questionable behavior on her part, and she knew if the admin believes me (I was being truthful, if a bit self-righteous), she’d get in trouble. So she manufactured something to make me sound bad.

What was terrifying to me at the time was how easily she did it, without really thinking how it would impact me. And what she perhaps didn’t know but should have at least considered us that I come from a strict family where my parents, upon learning this lie about me and of course believing it over my denials, punished me very harshly for it. I was just a kid and I had NO advocate or someone to protect me. This memory is very strong for me because that level of feeling powerless is brutal.

So if you are a teacher, or if you have the attitude that parents should ALWAYS believe teachers over kids, my suggestion to you is to take a step back and ask why the situation devolved to a conflict over “the truth” in the first place. And also remember that kids need advocates, they need people who will listen to them, and that it’s very easy for all the adults in a room to just decide what the kid has to say doesn’t matter.

Ideally all parties would look for ways to come together and work out conflicts without lying or needing to place blame. But I’m uncomfortable with the idea that if blame is placed, the kid is always on the receiving end and the teacher never is. It’s dangerous and can really harm kids.

Another thing to remember is that sometimes it's impossible to determine what is objectively true. Truth depends on perspective so it's subjective. It's possible for a teacher and student to say different things happened and both to believe they are being truthful. No one is a fly on the wall objectively determining what "really" happened.

So yes, kids lie, but some of that isn't willfully lying but just seeing something differently due to their maturity and life experience. Also, teachers aren't perfect and make mistakes. Sometimes, teachers lie to cover up mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

Are the parents respected or kowtowed to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have an answer for you, OP, but in my situation, my child was being lied about. The parents spread the lies, and the lies made their way to the teachers. I 'm not sure whether the teachers continued spreading them, but they sure as hell treated my child differently. And nobody, nobody at the school stood up for my child. At one point, a lie was told that everyone at the school knew was a lie, and the hostility toward my child ended. I'm sorry that you as the teacher are not being believed. But I would have a very hard time believing a teacher over my child after what we've been through.

Wow. Deja vu. I think there are parts of MCPS that are wonderful with great teachers and a great staff, but there are parts of MCPS that are completely broken. I even provided tons of evidence to the P that the teacher lied on multiple occasions. There was zero accountability.

The root cause is probably a combination of two factors.
1. Admins can jettison whistleblowers because they're not State employees, so they have no whistleblower rights in Maryland.
2. I believe one of the posters a while back that said even if a MCPS employee is a pedo, convicted of a crime, drug dealer - even that would make it tough to get rid of them.

The fix would be a universal whistleblower law (employee or not) and a clear standard for state employment?

Dunno. It will take a lot to fix MCPS, and I don't think McKnight or Wolffe will lift a finger to do it.

https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-maryland/article-education/division-ii-elementary-and-secondary-education/title-6-teachers-and-other-personnel/subtitle-9-public-school-employee-whistleblower-protection-act

Yeah. I used to think the same thing too.

"Court of Appeals Sides with MCPS in Whistleblower Case. Richard Montgomery High School social studies teacher brought forward fears of AP enrollment inflation"
https://moco360.media/2018/07/17/court-appeals-sides-mcps-whistleblower-case/

"Donlon’s teaching contract and tax documentation list MCPS as his employer, not the state, according to testimony. An official at the Maryland Comptroller’s Office asserted under oath that Donlon was not a current or former state employee."

"While a Montgomery County Circuit Court judge agreed with Donlon’s arguments—saying it was “troubling” that MCPS could qualify as a state agency in some situations, but not all—appellate judges have not. Last year, the Court of Special Appeals overturned the circuit court judge’s decision and sided with MCPS. The Court of Appeals opinion echoed the intermediate court."

oops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

Read the room. Plenty of people in MoCo and currently 700 open teaching positions in the county. No one is getting “downsized” because a few angry parents switch to private. Thanks for playing though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

Read the room. Plenty of people in MoCo and currently 700 open teaching positions in the county. No one is getting “downsized” because a few angry parents switch to private. Thanks for playing though!

We are losing some teacher positions at our school for next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

Read the room. Plenty of people in MoCo and currently 700 open teaching positions in the county. No one is getting “downsized” because a few angry parents switch to private. Thanks for playing though!

We are losing some teacher positions at our school for next year.

Cool story, bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

And that teacher shouldn't be surprised at being downsized due to low enrollment, as parents flee MCPS for private schools, where they are respected.

Read the room. Plenty of people in MoCo and currently 700 open teaching positions in the county. No one is getting “downsized” because a few angry parents switch to private. Thanks for playing though!

We are losing some teacher positions at our school for next year.

lol, so because your school is losing positions means the district as a whole isn’t facing a shortage? Gtfo with that logic. Typical DCUM… you and your experiences are not a monolith.

[Anonymous]

Amazing read...

Assertion: Kids lie, teachers don't, parents are foolish to believe their children in a he said/she said situation.

Response type A: But sometimes teachers do lie, so a blanket policy of disbelieving children is overly simplistic and would lead to some children being unjustly punished.

Response type B: Children are notorious liars. Parents who believe their lying children exist and make teachers' lives difficult.

Then things truly devolved into:

Teachers Bad/Parents Good: If teachers want parents to give a crap about what they say about our kids, they should try answering my emails. Also, I'll never respect another teacher after the pandemic. Except at my kid's private school, where I can more directly threaten their salary if they don't please me.

Parents Bad/Teachers Good: It is ludicrous for parents to expect anything at all of teachers and how they do their jobs. I laugh at your emails and will never respond to them. Questioning teachers and how they choose to handle your little jerks shows how far we have fallen as a society.


I'm sure everyone has a story behind why they've taken the perspective they have. But if everyone in this system is being made miserable by each other, it's probably the system's fault, not "parents" or "teachers".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have had kids lie and we've had teachers lie, it goes both ways. We've had great teachers, ok and really really bad.

However, what would help is you as a teacher communicating through regular emails. If you have an issue with my kid, reach out and let me know. If they are not doing the work, reach out and let me know. We will handle it.

But, also do your part. Grade things on time so we know what's going on and what needs improvement. Put assignments in the proper location online so we can find them to make sure they get done on time. When kids reach out for extra help, return emails. When parents email, return emails. When kids try to ask for help in class, help and don't ignore them.

You aren’t the teacher’s boss. No, the pittance of your property taxes that goes directly to public education doesn’t make it so.

Expecting professional behavior from a group who demand to be treated like professionals shouldn't be an enormous ask

Neat. They still don’t have to listen to you and your list of demands.

DP. No, they don’t. But they shouldn’t be surprised that respect for teachers has fallen.

It's fine...you absolutely shouldn't be surprised when teachers have no respect for parents either then. Works both ways.

DP do you not see the irony of making this statement on a thread started by a teacher venting about how terrible parents are? Is that a respectful, mature or professional way to deal with issues in a workplace?

You get back what you put out.

I mean this is an extremely dangerous attitude. Neither teachers, nor parents are a monolith. If teachers feel justified in punishing/disbelieving all parents for something they read on an anonymous forum then I don't have much hope that relations between teachers and parents can improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazing read...

Assertion: Kids lie, teachers don't, parents are foolish to believe their children in a he said/she said situation.

Response type A: But sometimes teachers do lie, so a blanket policy of disbelieving children is overly simplistic and would lead to some children being unjustly punished.

Response type B: Children are notorious liars. Parents who believe their lying children exist and make teachers' lives difficult.

Then things truly devolved into:

Teachers Bad/Parents Good: If teachers want parents to give a crap about what they say about our kids, they should try answering my emails. Also, I'll never respect another teacher after the pandemic. Except at my kid's private school, where I can more directly threaten their salary if they don't please me.

Parents Bad/Teachers Good: It is ludicrous for parents to expect anything at all of teachers and how they do their jobs. I laugh at your emails and will never respond to them. Questioning teachers and how they choose to handle your little jerks shows how far we have fallen as a society.


I'm sure everyone has a story behind why they've taken the perspective they have. But if everyone in this system is being made miserable by each other, it's probably the system's fault, not "parents" or "teachers".

Bravo!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher (and a parent), I am always surprised when a kid tells some story to their parents about what happened in class and the parent refuses to believe that what the kid said isn't true. First of all, kids perceive things differently because they feel like they are under a microscope, but also, kids lie. They lie to get out of trouble, avoid blame or work, and for tons of other weird reasons. A parent refusing to believe an adult who is partnering with them in their child's education is a betrayal. Public service announcement: your kid tells untruths. It's developmentally appropriate. You're not a bad parent when this happens.

You mean like the superintendent? Same. Lied and said she would move here then didn’t. And look at this forum deleting any attempt to discuss her obligations. Why should students be any different?