WSJ - To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

pretty sure the public schools are doing that just fine on their own

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

pretty sure the public schools are doing that just fine on their own

but this is a pet cause of the right-wing turfers and they are out in force here lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

No way. It's the crazy left wing that has destroyed public education in this county in the name of #Equity. That and Covid where our local leaders threw kids under the bus and kept schools closed for way longer than necessary.

totally. i have voted democratic but making our schools unusable is pushing me in a different direction. If they are going to do this, at least let me have my tax $ back so i can enroll in private.

Not a chance. Democrats are staunchly against school choice. They would prefer to waste enormous amounts of taxpayer money, unencumbered by accountability.

+1. Have left Dems because of their fealty to teachers. Public schools should be replaced with vouchers for families. End the monopoly on mediocrity.

I know Dems are so bent on fair pay and decent working conditions for teachers that it's hurting our schools. Also, vouchers would help offset my private school bills.

They need to stop catering to teachers like their crazy pension expensive plan and give them a 401k like everyone else. Also would love vouchers since that would help offset the costs for private at least some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

I was responding to the overwrought hand-wringing about kids based on your classist assumptions and the implication that if kids from lower socioeconomic households are not pulled out of their schools to attend magnet programs at other (I guess maybe you think better?) schools, they are somehow being failed. I’m not sure what you mean by “good MS and HS programs,” but I’m assuming you mean magnet programs. Hopefully you’ll be pleased to know that the regular middle and high schools in MCPS still have strong peer groups, and all schools offer free tutoring.

I personally think all MCPS schools should offer the classes they have in magnets as well as real honors English classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

pretty sure the public schools are doing that just fine on their own

but this is a pet cause of the right-wing turfers and they are out in force here lately

Yep. Just look at this thread. They think they can fool us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

I was responding to the overwrought hand-wringing about kids based on your classist assumptions and the implication that if kids from lower socioeconomic households are not pulled out of their schools to attend magnet programs at other (I guess maybe you think better?) schools, they are somehow being failed. I’m not sure what you mean by “good MS and HS programs,” but I’m assuming you mean magnet programs. Hopefully you’ll be pleased to know that the regular middle and high schools in MCPS still have strong peer groups, and all schools offer free tutoring.

I personally think all MCPS schools should offer the classes they have in magnets as well as real honors English classes.

DP. you can personally think that, but it's clear that the only way some kids can get into "honors" is to slap that label on the regular classes and then have grade inflation.

This is reflected in the many colleges that have remedial courses for kids like this.

Your definition of "strong peer group" might be a bit lower than other people's definition.

FWIW I went to a lower SES school. We had 3 AP classes in the HS (again lower income school) but the "honors" classes were a joke even back then. I knew someone who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, who took those honor classes, not AP classes. Because the honors classes have the same weight as AP classes this person's WGPA was on par with those who took the harder AP classes.

The way so many schools designate "honors" is just a way to inflate the grades for certain types groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

I was responding to the overwrought hand-wringing about kids based on your classist assumptions and the implication that if kids from lower socioeconomic households are not pulled out of their schools to attend magnet programs at other (I guess maybe you think better?) schools, they are somehow being failed. I’m not sure what you mean by “good MS and HS programs,” but I’m assuming you mean magnet programs. Hopefully you’ll be pleased to know that the regular middle and high schools in MCPS still have strong peer groups, and all schools offer free tutoring.

I personally think all MCPS schools should offer the classes they have in magnets as well as real honors English classes.

DP. you can personally think that, but it's clear that the only way some kids can get into "honors" is to slap that label on the regular classes and then have grade inflation.

This is reflected in the many colleges that have remedial courses for kids like this.

Your definition of "strong peer group" might be a bit lower than other people's definition.

FWIW I went to a lower SES school. We had 3 AP classes in the HS (again lower income school) but the "honors" classes were a joke even back then. I knew someone who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, who took those honor classes, not AP classes. Because the honors classes have the same weight as AP classes this person's WGPA was on par with those who took the harder AP classes.

The way so many schools designate "honors" is just a way to inflate the grades for certain types groups.

How could you possibly know that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

pretty sure the public schools are doing that just fine on their own

but this is a pet cause of the right-wing turfers and they are out in force here lately

And here he is... "But you are probably the frequent poster that accuses every post critical of MCPS of being "right-wing," so we can dismiss your analysis in return."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

I was responding to the overwrought hand-wringing about kids based on your classist assumptions and the implication that if kids from lower socioeconomic households are not pulled out of their schools to attend magnet programs at other (I guess maybe you think better?) schools, they are somehow being failed. I’m not sure what you mean by “good MS and HS programs,” but I’m assuming you mean magnet programs. Hopefully you’ll be pleased to know that the regular middle and high schools in MCPS still have strong peer groups, and all schools offer free tutoring.

I personally think all MCPS schools should offer the classes they have in magnets as well as real honors English classes.

DP. you can personally think that, but it's clear that the only way some kids can get into "honors" is to slap that label on the regular classes and then have grade inflation.

This is reflected in the many colleges that have remedial courses for kids like this.

Your definition of "strong peer group" might be a bit lower than other people's definition.

FWIW I went to a lower SES school. We had 3 AP classes in the HS (again lower income school) but the "honors" classes were a joke even back then. I knew someone who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer, who took those honor classes, not AP classes. Because the honors classes have the same weight as AP classes this person's WGPA was on par with those who took the harder AP classes.

The way so many schools designate "honors" is just a way to inflate the grades for certain types groups.

How could you possibly know that?

Because not every HS in MCPS has a sizeable peer group, and to think that means the threshold is pretty low. As I stated, I went to a lower income school, and there were only a handful of kids who were high achieving. I was in the same classes but I did not get on with them socially. The high achieving peer cohort was too small to find a social group for most kids.

We don't live in a W cluster, so I'm not saying only W HS have a significant high achieving peer group, but it's also not true that all HS have a significant sized peer group, and size does matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

We still have real honors classes. Which school has done this?

Tons of schools do this, for example, having all students take Honors English 9 and 10, which are a complete joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

Spare me. What happens to that “strong peer group” as time goes on? Your kids do fine (b/c you will get tutoring as needed and get them into good MS and HS programs.) The kids without that will not.

I was responding to the overwrought hand-wringing about kids based on your classist assumptions and the implication that if kids from lower socioeconomic households are not pulled out of their schools to attend magnet programs at other (I guess maybe you think better?) schools, they are somehow being failed. I’m not sure what you mean by “good MS and HS programs,” but I’m assuming you mean magnet programs. Hopefully you’ll be pleased to know that the regular middle and high schools in MCPS still have strong peer groups, and all schools offer free tutoring.

I personally think all MCPS schools should offer the classes they have in magnets as well as real honors English classes.

+1000 one of the only reasonable and sensible posts on this thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

We still have real honors classes. Which school has done this?

Tons of schools do this, for example, having all students take Honors English 9 and 10, which are a complete joke.

You must be at one of the bad schools or just posting from an alternate reality. We also have real honors classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

We still have real honors classes. Which school has done this?

Tons of schools do this, for example, having all students take Honors English 9 and 10, which are a complete joke.

You must be at one of the bad schools or just posting from an alternate reality. We also have real honors classes.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize Whitman was a bad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

We still have real honors classes. Which school has done this?

Tons of schools do this, for example, having all students take Honors English 9 and 10, which are a complete joke.

You must be at one of the bad schools or just posting from an alternate reality. We also have real honors classes.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize Whitman was a bad school.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZmAnGVVuZW74MNmyJZnPocVmB0VCj8_t/view