WSJ - To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article from WSJ today. Too bad for the schools doing this,


https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increase-equity-school-districts-eliminate-honors-classes-d5985dee

Instead of eliminating honors which is the national trend, MCPS is doing the opposite and raising the bar by requiring honors for all.

Except they're not raising the bar. They're diluting the rigor in the name of honors for all.

Is there any evidence to this effect or is it just your assumption?

DP.. have you looked at the scores of certain segments of the MCPS student population? A lot of those kids are in "honors" classes because a lot of the HS no longer have on track classes.

There is so much grade inflation, 50% rule, retake of exams, it's hard not to get bad grades, but still, some do.

The 50% rule is hardly a concern. I'm fine with it because some kid might get a C- instead of D+. I'm also fine with retakes since the point is learning, not punishment. In the end, if students learn more then MCPS is doing its job well. Further, none of this has anything to do with expecting all students to meet a higher standard by offering honors for all.

This. I don't see any problems with expecting all students to meet a higher standard, especially English, the national language of the country.

There is no national language in the United States. Just FYI.

There is no OFFICIAL language but English is the language spoken nationally.

Omg, shut up. The language of use for everything of importance in the United States is English, period. We do not need national policy to state the obvious. Education needs to use one standard language for everything, which is English for good reason.

Whether you like it or not, English is the de facto standard for alllllll STEM. Even the Chinese publish their best research in English, because English is the most important language for the science and mathematics. The vast majority of the Internet is written in English. English absolutely 100000% should be the only language in which kids are taught in schools, for good reason.

When you have a whole bunch of students in 'honors' classes who do not have fluent ability in English, it is a tremendous drag.

I am even sure what you are blabbing about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

If 71% meet on-level requirements how does that indicate they're ALL ready to meet HONORS-level classes, which are supposed to be increased in difficulty or pacing?

That only makes sense if there actually is NO distinction between on-level and honors classes, in which case you get rid of honors altogether since it's just a figment of everyone's imagination, or do you honors for all and pretend that you're raising the rigor for everyone when you're really not because it's an on-level course with an honors label slapped on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

The problem with this analysis is that you are comparing apples to oranges. Evidence of Learning is the number cited above by the poster. That number shows 71 percent hitting on-level literacy. But EOLs are tricky, because they are a blend of state-wide tests, in-class assessments, and "passing" grades. Except we know that grades are inflated in MCPS and that teachers are under pressure not to fail any kids.

So you are comparing a standardized test (statewide) to a qualitative assessment based partially on political pressures (EOL). If you compare apples to apples, then only 42 percent of Kennedy HS kids are hitting the baseline, not 71%. https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/H/1/15/0815/0

In fact, we should be alarmed that Kennedy is showing that many kids hitting their EOLs given their failure to hit the baseline on a state-wide test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

+ a million, and every teacher knows it.

The new policy is just another example of harmful virtue signaling.

That's not true. They're raising the standards and expecting more of everyone.

You must be a teen.

Everyone knows that the bolded is what No Child Left Behind tried to do...and it largely failed.

You can't just *expect* more and, voila, it happens.

Plus, in practice this will translate into lower expectations for the best and most motivated students.

You are responding to a troll. Stop feeding her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

Yeah I don't really understand why some people are trying to misrepresent. This is something other than simply MCPS racing expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

Yeah I don't really understand why some people are trying to misrepresent. This is something other than simply MCPS racing expectations.

71% of students being on level does NOT = 71% being ready for honors classes

How are you reaching that conclusion?

I won't even touch why you're ok with only 71% of our students being on-level for literacy to begin with....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

Yeah I don't really understand why some people are trying to misrepresent. This is something other than simply MCPS racing expectations.

71% of students being on level does NOT = 71% being ready for honors classes

How are you reaching that conclusion?

I won't even touch why you're ok with only 71% of our students being on-level for literacy to begin with....

I guess if you don't give people a chance they can't disappoint you. But that being said, raising the bar for all seems like the right move for MCPS and 71% seems adequate for honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

Yeah I don't really understand why some people are trying to misrepresent. This is something other than simply MCPS racing expectations.

71% of students being on level does NOT = 71% being ready for honors classes

How are you reaching that conclusion?

I won't even touch why you're ok with only 71% of our students being on-level for literacy to begin with....

I guess if you don't give people a chance they can't disappoint you. But that being said, raising the bar for all seems like the right move for MCPS and 71% seems adequate for honors.

So you're not going to answer the question. Got it. I'm done wasting time with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's total crap. Straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

Huh??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the solution alllllllllways to kowtow to the lowest common denominator.

This should be great for America's progress and innovation - knee cap the brightest because half the class are children of illegal migrants who need all sorts of remedial work since they can't even speak English.

People just cannot handle the fact there is also a natural bell curve of intelligence. Stop holding back our best.

Well, then you'll be pleased to know this is not what they're doing. Instead, they're raising up lower-performing students by requiring all students to perform at a high level.

No they are not. It is impossible to teach a higher level class if 50% of the class cannot even get close to meeting state math/ELA standards. Ridiculous assertion. I am all for high expectations for everyone, but tracking is necessary to accomplish it.

Evidence?

I present to you MCPS own Evidence of Learning data dashboard: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Evidence-of-Learning-Grade11.html

With 71% of all student meeting the on-level requirements for literacy and only 60% meeting the requirements for on-level math, I can assure that it's not possible they're passing and thriving in a truly rigorous "honors" class if their school has adopted an honors for all model.

In fact, you can drill down to Kennedy, which has had an honors for all model since 2017 and see the data:

64% met the watermark for literacy in 2022
40% met the watermark for math in 2022

And yet, I bet you 60% of kids are not getting D's or E's on their report cards in math, nor are 36% getting D's or E's in their English and History classes.

There's the evidence you need to know that honors-for-all does not result in anything that looks like raising the bar and uplifting the performance of students in any way, shape or form.

Huh??
If 71% of students are meeting on-level requirements for literacy, I can assure you they can handle honors classes .
It's only 38% statewide and 28% nationwide

Yeah I don't really understand why some people are trying to misrepresent. This is something other than simply MCPS racing expectations.

71% of students being on level does NOT = 71% being ready for honors classes

How are you reaching that conclusion?

I won't even touch why you're ok with only 71% of our students being on-level for literacy to begin with....

I guess if you don't give people a chance they can't disappoint you. But that being said, raising the bar for all seems like the right move for MCPS and 71% seems adequate for honors.

So you're not going to answer the question. Got it. I'm done wasting time with you.

Occam's razor stipulates the two propositions being equal, the one with fewer assumptions is right. This is why I would take honors for all at face value instead of jumping to these unfounded conclusions that it's something else without any evidence.