WSJ - To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont kids still have to request/sign up for the honors course? Doesn’t this essentislly select the hard working kids anyway? Or are you saying every class is just given a fake advanced packet?

No, they don't. Honors has become the default in many MCPS high schools in the name of equity, as the WSJ article articulates.

but by many I mean none since it isn't the default but I love to exaggerate

It is the default, starting with next year's freshman class.

Proof: Here is are the options for 9th graders at Montgomery Blair: English 9 Honors is the only option. https://sites.google.com/mcpsmd.net/mbhscoursebulletin/english-language-arts?authuser=0

At Whitman, same deal. Honors English 9 is the only option if you are a rising 9th grader, unless you are an ELL. https://sites.google.com/mcpsmd.net/wwhs-counseling/academics/registration-course-selection

It's been like this at RM for many years. Even one of the teachers mentioned why they got rid of "on track" English.

It's not just English. There's also no on-level science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

That's always been the case, though. Even when I was in HS 30 years ago, parents would force the school into admitting kids who didn't belong in these classes forcing them to be dumbed down. Nothing new here.

I think having a few kids who didn't belong forced into an honors class is wildly different from eliminating any qualifier for honors, which basically turns all classes into on-level classes without regard to student aptitude and performance.

In the former, those few students whose parents pushed them in suffer, but the rest of the class who is focuses and interested in learning doesn't. But in the latter, the kids who want to learn and be challenged suffer because now instead of 1 or 2 kids not being able to handle the class, now there's 10 or 15. Those are not the same issues at all.

+1 As usual, MCPS takes a decent idea (eliminate gatekeeping measures for Honors classes) and manages to take it too far.

I'd argue the same is true for the CES and MS magnet admissions. They were correct to eliminate gatekeeping measures like the at-home essay and teacher recommendations, but moving to a lottery that includes kids in the 65th percentile is just lunacy.

Agree 100 percent. this and honors for all BS will be the downfall of mcps

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

No way. It's the crazy left wing that has destroyed public education in this county in the name of #Equity. That and Covid where our local leaders threw kids under the bus and kept schools closed for way longer than necessary.

totally. i have voted democratic but making our schools unusable is pushing me in a different direction. If they are going to do this, at least let me have my tax $ back so i can enroll in private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one in private school who is going through the process of picking courses for next year. Seems most students want to take honors and AP classes, but they have to be approved by the teacher. My daughter said some of the students are distraught when they don’t get approved. On one hand I feel bad for them, but I am mostly glad they are creating classrooms that will truly be challenging. This is real life. Not everyone should get a trophy.

I don't believe there should be different class speeds or expectations at all. Have the same high expectations for all of the kids and grade accordingly.

The problem is that doing that will turn most 'A' students into 'B' students with that effect cascading down the line. Somehow people have started believing that working hard for a 'B' or and 'C' is shameful. It isn't. Just do your best and you can be pleased with the results because you know you put in your best effort.

So old fashioned of me

Oh please, there will be plenty of people getting Bs and Cs. Sadly at MCPS the honors for all is just regular English where the low achievers can pass. Imagine having your high achieving kid in the same class with a kid who never does the work....so so sad.

We don't seem to be talking about the same kid. One does their best and earns a C. One does very little and gets a C. One of them I would be proud of.

To be clear, are you saying a "low achiever" is someone who only earns a 'C' after delivering their best effort? Or are you saying a "low achiever" is someone who never does the work?

Low achiever is the latter. And there are plenty of them in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dont kids still have to request/sign up for the honors course? Doesn’t this essentislly select the hard working kids anyway? Or are you saying every class is just given a fake advanced packet?

No, they don't. Honors has become the default in many MCPS high schools in the name of equity, as the WSJ article articulates.

but by many I mean none since it isn't the default but I love to exaggerate

It is the default, starting with next year's freshman class.

Proof: Here is are the options for 9th graders at Montgomery Blair: English 9 Honors is the only option. https://sites.google.com/mcpsmd.net/mbhscoursebulletin/english-language-arts?authuser=0

At Whitman, same deal. Honors English 9 is the only option if you are a rising 9th grader, unless you are an ELL. https://sites.google.com/mcpsmd.net/wwhs-counseling/academics/registration-course-selection

It's been like this at RM for many years. Even one of the teachers mentioned why they got rid of "on track" English.

It's not just English. There's also no on-level science.

Which school system are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dont kids still have to request/sign up for the honors course? Doesn’t this essentislly select the hard working kids anyway? Or are you saying every class is just given a fake advanced packet?

That's true, but many of these posts are concerning an alternate reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

No way. It's the crazy left wing that has destroyed public education in this county in the name of #Equity. That and Covid where our local leaders threw kids under the bus and kept schools closed for way longer than necessary.

totally. i have voted democratic but making our schools unusable is pushing me in a different direction. If they are going to do this, at least let me have my tax $ back so i can enroll in private.

Not a chance. Democrats are staunchly against school choice. They would prefer to waste enormous amounts of taxpayer money, unencumbered by accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

MCPS employees already did that with their ‘work’ during the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

No way. It's the crazy left wing that has destroyed public education in this county in the name of #Equity. That and Covid where our local leaders threw kids under the bus and kept schools closed for way longer than necessary.

totally. i have voted democratic but making our schools unusable is pushing me in a different direction. If they are going to do this, at least let me have my tax $ back so i can enroll in private.

Not a chance. Democrats are staunchly against school choice. They would prefer to waste enormous amounts of taxpayer money, unencumbered by accountability.

+1. Have left Dems because of their fealty to teachers. Public schools should be replaced with vouchers for families. End the monopoly on mediocrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has pretty much done this, though rather than "eliminating" honors, they made it honors-for-all, which accomplishes the same thing. I'm with the critics on this approach. It's wrongheaded and doesn't work.

That's always been the case, though. Even when I was in HS 30 years ago, parents would force the school into admitting kids who didn't belong in these classes forcing them to be dumbed down. Nothing new here.

I think having a few kids who didn't belong forced into an honors class is wildly different from eliminating any qualifier for honors, which basically turns all classes into on-level classes without regard to student aptitude and performance.

In the former, those few students whose parents pushed them in suffer, but the rest of the class who is focuses and interested in learning doesn't. But in the latter, the kids who want to learn and be challenged suffer because now instead of 1 or 2 kids not being able to handle the class, now there's 10 or 15. Those are not the same issues at all.

I mean it’s not for ALL. On my high schooler’s registration form there’s Honors English and there’s still High School Developmental Reading and English for English Learners and English Language Development Seminar.

[Anonymous]

What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article from WSJ today. Too bad for the schools doing this, it's much better to have all honors so all can have inflated grades.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increase-equity-school-districts-eliminate-honors-classes-d5985dee

Doesn't Fox News own the WSJ?

Yep. More Faux News propaganda

So, there is nothing real here, eh? What is your gold-plated news source, where you trust everything they say?

I think you are incredibly naive and close-minded to dismiss news sources because they don't confirm your bias. But you are probably the frequent poster that accuses every post critical of MCPS of being "right-wing," so we can dismiss your analysis in return.

The news source is the Wall Street Journal which runs leftist on news articles (which this is.)

Read the preceding comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What gets me about this is that it hurts bright, motivated disadvantaged kids (and girls, in the context of STEM) the most. Advantaged kids will get tutoring and pushed into APs as soon as they are available. Bright kids without that won’t be prepared. I literally cannot - as in, cognitively do not understand - why schools are abandoning able, disadvantaged kids. I get that the radial composition of magnet/gifted programs etc was a problem. The answer to that is to create *more* gifted programs that scoop up every kid in Title 1 schools that shows academic ability and focus. It makes me tear my hair out to think about those kids.

I don’t know that you should be tearing your hair out about kids at title I schools. My kids go to a title I elementary school, and they have smaller class sizes, great teachers, and a strong peer group of smart and motivated kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article from WSJ today. Too bad for the schools doing this, it's much better to have all honors so all can have inflated grades.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-increase-equity-school-districts-eliminate-honors-classes-d5985dee

Doesn't Fox News own the WSJ?

Yep. More Faux News propaganda

So, there is nothing real here, eh? What is your gold-plated news source, where you trust everything they say?

I think you are incredibly naive and close-minded to dismiss news sources because they don't confirm your bias. But you are probably the frequent poster that accuses every post critical of MCPS of being "right-wing," so we can dismiss your analysis in return.

The news source is the Wall Street Journal which runs leftist on news articles (which this is.)

Read the preceding comments.

Yes by my current standards all the Murdoch properties like Fox News are far left. I mostly follow Alex Jones now for fair and balanced reporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this on MCPS forum? The right wingers are trying hard to create chaos and destroy public schools.

No way. It's the crazy left wing that has destroyed public education in this county in the name of #Equity. That and Covid where our local leaders threw kids under the bus and kept schools closed for way longer than necessary.

totally. i have voted democratic but making our schools unusable is pushing me in a different direction. If they are going to do this, at least let me have my tax $ back so i can enroll in private.

Not a chance. Democrats are staunchly against school choice. They would prefer to waste enormous amounts of taxpayer money, unencumbered by accountability.

+1. Have left Dems because of their fealty to teachers. Public schools should be replaced with vouchers for families. End the monopoly on mediocrity.

I know Dems are so bent on fair pay and decent working conditions for teachers that it's hurting our schools. Also, vouchers would help offset my private school bills.