I disagree with Rowling on trans-issues *and* I think Rowling's critics are dishonest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyperbole is common for this situation. I saw someone on Instagram declaring that Bethany Hamilton was transphobic when what she actually said was that she didn’t agree with World Surf League rules allowing trans women to compete in female divisions. That is not the same thing as being transphobic.

FWIW I think JK has dug her heels too far into the trans issue and I don’t necessarily agree with her on it, but I’m not surprised at all that the internet is taking it wildly out of context.

+1. Although I will also say that Rowling has done herself no favors by aligning herself with people who transphobic, such as Matt Walsh (who also happens to be a racist and misogynist).

Really? I love Matt Walsh!

Is it the racism? The fascism? The constant putting down of his wife and daughter(s)? Is it his sheltered home-schooled upbringing and lack of a college education or the lack of participation in any societal institution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

I have a child with ASD and depression and I am fearful of a gender clinic convincing them to change their gender.

You should be. This is what happened to mine.

I know one that has become convinced "they" are trans. Not through a gender clinic, but from the internet. I guess it gives them hope, and so maybe it is not all bad. But I worry what will happen when they realize this is not a magic cure.

Do they have gender dysphoria?

It is hard to tell. They never used to express this at all. They do not claim they have felt this all their life. They just now say that their problems are due to being trans.

It sounds like you haven't actually had an indepth discussion about it with them. Most trans people I know seem to have experienced gender dysphoria from a young age. That seems to be common? But these are more binary trans people. I'm not sure if nonbinary people are the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

You seem to suffer from anglophobia and from sciencephobia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

I have a child with ASD and depression and I am fearful of a gender clinic convincing them to change their gender.

You should be. This is what happened to mine.

I know one that has become convinced "they" are trans. Not through a gender clinic, but from the internet. I guess it gives them hope, and so maybe it is not all bad. But I worry what will happen when they realize this is not a magic cure.

Do they have gender dysphoria?

It is hard to tell. They never used to express this at all. They do not claim they have felt this all their life. They just now say that their problems are due to being trans.

It sounds like you haven't actually had an indepth discussion about it with them. Most trans people I know seem to have experienced gender dysphoria from a young age. That seems to be common? But these are more binary trans people. I'm not sure if nonbinary people are the same?

Are you talking about adults or teens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

I have a child with ASD and depression and I am fearful of a gender clinic convincing them to change their gender.

You should be. This is what happened to mine.

I know one that has become convinced "they" are trans. Not through a gender clinic, but from the internet. I guess it gives them hope, and so maybe it is not all bad. But I worry what will happen when they realize this is not a magic cure.

Do they have gender dysphoria?

It is hard to tell. They never used to express this at all. They do not claim they have felt this all their life. They just now say that their problems are due to being trans.

It sounds like you haven't actually had an indepth discussion about it with them. Most trans people I know seem to have experienced gender dysphoria from a young age. That seems to be common? But these are more binary trans people. I'm not sure if nonbinary people are the same?

Are you talking about adults or teens?

I'm talking about their friend. Though I'm not actually clear if it's a friend of theirs. However old they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

I have a child with ASD and depression and I am fearful of a gender clinic convincing them to change their gender.

You should be. This is what happened to mine.

I know one that has become convinced "they" are trans. Not through a gender clinic, but from the internet. I guess it gives them hope, and so maybe it is not all bad. But I worry what will happen when they realize this is not a magic cure.

Do they have gender dysphoria?

It is hard to tell. They never used to express this at all. They do not claim they have felt this all their life. They just now say that their problems are due to being trans.

It sounds like you haven't actually had an indepth discussion about it with them. Most trans people I know seem to have experienced gender dysphoria from a young age. That seems to be common? But these are more binary trans people. I'm not sure if nonbinary people are the same?

Are you talking about adults or teens?

I'm talking about their friend. Though I'm not actually clear if it's a friend of theirs. However old they are.

that's why I'm not really sure they really are trans. They have suddenly decided they have gender dysphoria, and claim this is a new discovery, based on internet research. They are about 22 years old. They also have borderline personality disorder (or maybe autism)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

But the world doesn’t work this way. At the elite levels, which start in middle school, athletics is a zero-sum game. A girl who doesn’t get a spot on the track team does not get the better coaching and exposure that leads to the offer of a position on the regional team, etc. Look, I can tell you have no experience at all with competitive middle school and high school athletes, but what you are saying simply doesn’t work for those ages because athletics is a zero sum game. If a trans girl takes the spot of an otherwise competitive high school runner, that high school runner isn’t getting a scholarship opportunity. And it’s not just college: it’s varsity sports, it’s local scholarships, it’s training for the next level. You think college athletics is this unique independent thing that has nothing to do with teen youth sports, and that is absolutely not tethered to any reality whatsoever.

I am ok with trans girls joining purely rec teams and teams of kids under age 8. But I think it is grossly unfair and misogynist to allow trans girls to take spots from natal girls in teen girl competitive sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

It is a thing because it is part of a larger resurgence of sexism and misogyny worldwide, and people see that. And in England and Scotland, self-ID laws put rapists in women’s prisons and made it impossible for girls and women to ask to not be treated by people with penises at rape crisis centers, so the discussion is further along. Women could not even object to those common sense restrictions without being told they were bigots. The issue is that laws to support trans people have been abused by predatory men, but as part of the global resurgence in misogyny, women have been threatened, assaulted, doxxed, and screamed at if they objected to or tried to fight that rise in misogyny. It’s not the number of trans people that is driving the response. It’s the inherent and obvious systemic support for sexism that is driving the response.

When it comes to the rights and safety of women and girls, there is no practical difference between the anti-abortion right-wing activists and the extreme left-wing trans rights activists. Their goal — the complete suppression of women — is identical. And that’s why there is the response there is, because people see that.

I don’t think the issue is trans people at heart. It’s abusive men who want to destroy and control women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

It is a thing because it is part of a larger resurgence of sexism and misogyny worldwide, and people see that. And in England and Scotland, self-ID laws put rapists in women’s prisons and made it impossible for girls and women to ask to not be treated by people with penises at rape crisis centers, so the discussion is further along. Women could not even object to those common sense restrictions without being told they were bigots. The issue is that laws to support trans people have been abused by predatory men, but as part of the global resurgence in misogyny, women have been threatened, assaulted, doxxed, and screamed at if they objected to or tried to fight that rise in misogyny. It’s not the number of trans people that is driving the response. It’s the inherent and obvious systemic support for sexism that is driving the response.

When it comes to the rights and safety of women and girls, there is no practical difference between the anti-abortion right-wing activists and the extreme left-wing trans rights activists. Their goal — the complete suppression of women — is identical. And that’s why there is the response there is, because people see that.

I don’t think the issue is trans people at heart. It’s abusive men who want to destroy and control women.

I'm not sure I understand what this means. Are you saying that the laws meant to help trans people are being exploited by cisgender men and therefore trans people should be treated as whatever they transitioned from and not what they're transitioning to? You wrote a lot of text.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

But the world doesn’t work this way. At the elite levels, which start in middle school, athletics is a zero-sum game. A girl who doesn’t get a spot on the track team does not get the better coaching and exposure that leads to the offer of a position on the regional team, etc. Look, I can tell you have no experience at all with competitive middle school and high school athletes, but what you are saying simply doesn’t work for those ages because athletics is a zero sum game. If a trans girl takes the spot of an otherwise competitive high school runner, that high school runner isn’t getting a scholarship opportunity. And it’s not just college: it’s varsity sports, it’s local scholarships, it’s training for the next level. You think college athletics is this unique independent thing that has nothing to do with teen youth sports, and that is absolutely not tethered to any reality whatsoever.

I am ok with trans girls joining purely rec teams and teams of kids under age 8. But I think it is grossly unfair and misogynist to allow trans girls to take spots from natal girls in teen girl competitive sports.

Honestly, this sounds like a problem with how kids' athletics are structured that goes beyond gender issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

But the world doesn’t work this way. At the elite levels, which start in middle school, athletics is a zero-sum game. A girl who doesn’t get a spot on the track team does not get the better coaching and exposure that leads to the offer of a position on the regional team, etc. Look, I can tell you have no experience at all with competitive middle school and high school athletes, but what you are saying simply doesn’t work for those ages because athletics is a zero sum game. If a trans girl takes the spot of an otherwise competitive high school runner, that high school runner isn’t getting a scholarship opportunity. And it’s not just college: it’s varsity sports, it’s local scholarships, it’s training for the next level. You think college athletics is this unique independent thing that has nothing to do with teen youth sports, and that is absolutely not tethered to any reality whatsoever.

I am ok with trans girls joining purely rec teams and teams of kids under age 8. But I think it is grossly unfair and misogynist to allow trans girls to take spots from natal girls in teen girl competitive sports.

Honestly, this sounds like a problem with how kids' athletics are structured that goes beyond gender issues.

Fine, but that doesn’t change the reality, which is that trans girls in competitive girls sports at the middle and high school level take opportunities away from natal girls. You may not like the system, but it is how it works.

I’m not sure what else you want. You want very competitive kids to not be competitive? Do you prefer the European and Chinese system where kids who aren’t identified at age 8 never have a chance at high-level athletics again?

If you don’t like kids playing competitive sports, I don’t know what to tell you. Some kids like being very competitive athletes, and some of those kids are natal girls. You appear to wish natal girls weren’t competitive athletes so you don’t have to deal with the fact that they are losing opportunities, but they exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

But the world doesn’t work this way. At the elite levels, which start in middle school, athletics is a zero-sum game. A girl who doesn’t get a spot on the track team does not get the better coaching and exposure that leads to the offer of a position on the regional team, etc. Look, I can tell you have no experience at all with competitive middle school and high school athletes, but what you are saying simply doesn’t work for those ages because athletics is a zero sum game. If a trans girl takes the spot of an otherwise competitive high school runner, that high school runner isn’t getting a scholarship opportunity. And it’s not just college: it’s varsity sports, it’s local scholarships, it’s training for the next level. You think college athletics is this unique independent thing that has nothing to do with teen youth sports, and that is absolutely not tethered to any reality whatsoever.

I am ok with trans girls joining purely rec teams and teams of kids under age 8. But I think it is grossly unfair and misogynist to allow trans girls to take spots from natal girls in teen girl competitive sports.

Honestly, this sounds like a problem with how kids' athletics are structured that goes beyond gender issues.

Fine, but that doesn’t change the reality, which is that trans girls in competitive girls sports at the middle and high school level take opportunities away from natal girls. You may not like the system, but it is how it works.

I’m not sure what else you want. You want very competitive kids to not be competitive? Do you prefer the European and Chinese system where kids who aren’t identified at age 8 never have a chance at high-level athletics again?

If you don’t like kids playing competitive sports, I don’t know what to tell you. Some kids like being very competitive athletes, and some of those kids are natal girls. You appear to wish natal girls weren’t competitive athletes so you don’t have to deal with the fact that they are losing opportunities, but they exist.

When you say competitive athletics, are you referring to athletics with scholarships only or are you saying no trans girl should be allowed to play sports in high school? What about something like cheerleading where it's sort of individual as well as team based? Some schools definitely give scholarships for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:England’s transphobia is worse than America. I don’t know why this is suddenly a thing. Trans people are such a tiny percentage of the population! I am talking just transgender folks, not drag queens which is an entirely different thing. It makes me very sad that there is so much vitriol these days towards trans people. I grew up with someone who is trans. She is just a lovely person. She is very kind and wouldn’t hurt anyone. I knew her when she was a child. When I told my Republican mother that he was transitioning to a woman, my mom said, “oh it all makes sense!” My mom knew him in grade school and could sense there was something up. Many people are making decisions for others that they don’t even know! They fear something they know nothing about!

It is a thing because it is part of a larger resurgence of sexism and misogyny worldwide, and people see that. And in England and Scotland, self-ID laws put rapists in women’s prisons and made it impossible for girls and women to ask to not be treated by people with penises at rape crisis centers, so the discussion is further along. Women could not even object to those common sense restrictions without being told they were bigots. The issue is that laws to support trans people have been abused by predatory men, but as part of the global resurgence in misogyny, women have been threatened, assaulted, doxxed, and screamed at if they objected to or tried to fight that rise in misogyny. It’s not the number of trans people that is driving the response. It’s the inherent and obvious systemic support for sexism that is driving the response.

When it comes to the rights and safety of women and girls, there is no practical difference between the anti-abortion right-wing activists and the extreme left-wing trans rights activists. Their goal — the complete suppression of women — is identical. And that’s why there is the response there is, because people see that.

I don’t think the issue is trans people at heart. It’s abusive men who want to destroy and control women.

I'm not sure I understand what this means. Are you saying that the laws meant to help trans people are being exploited by cisgender men and therefore trans people should be treated as whatever they transitioned from and not what they're transitioning to? You wrote a lot of text.

I can’t say it more clearly than I did, but your deliberate obtuseness is noted.

What I am saying is that there is now global awareness of this issue because women around the world have seen that when forced to choose — and make no mistake, there is a choice happening here — governments and organizations will prioritize the safety, rights, sexual needs, and well-being of men and former men over that of biological women and children. Women prisoners are forced to accept rapists in prison with them because those rapists identify as women. Sex assault and rape victims are decried as bigots if they don’t want to be seen or handled by people with penises in their most vulnerable moments. The finally-discredited Mermaids children’s trans rights organization — which got fawning support from both UK government organizations and major corporations — had a child sex abuse apologist on the board (Jacob Breslow). (You can search what he wrote. It is sickening and vile.).

Do you think we can’t see how little government organizations and leftist organizations care about the safety of women? How little they care about sexual abuse of children? Do you think we don’t see how the needs of men and former men are prioritized? Of course we see it: we are women with thousands of years of surviving male abuse. We are trained since birth to watch out for predatory men of all kinds, including those who now identify as women. And we can’t be gaslit by the left any more on this issue. We are fighting back to protect women’s safety, just like we are fighting against the horrific anti-choice Republicans.

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Anonymous wrote:I think there has been a chilling effect on women who are concerned about having transwomen in certain spaces. I want to be sensitive to these concerns, some of which are legitimate. (Other concerns are maybe borne of fear that isn't completely justified but are, nevertheless, sincere and aren't coming from a place of malice.)

Also, I want to be supportive of trans people. Sometimes I'm not at all sure how to reconcile these things.

An (admittedly imperfect) analogy. I think society should be supportive of people with disabilities. But I don't think this means we should eliminate vision requirements for a bus driver.

Similarly, I have no problem forbidding
1. Transwomen working in a rape crisis center (such as that funded by JK Rowling)
2. Transwomen who have committed sex crimes in a women's prison
3. Transwomen in women's sports

Inclusion is important, but it is not the only thing that is important.

Disagree mostly with transwonen in women’s sports. D1 varsity sport’s & professional level stuff, I can see. But at lower levels of competition, I don’t think trans women and girls should be excluded. I know 4 biological boys transitioning to girls and honestly they are unathletic. If they want to get involved with sports, they’d be way more comfortable with other girls & wouldn’t be depriving other girls of very much.

How young do they have to be? There are multiple high school girls who have lost access to university athletic scholarships because they raced against trans girls who are unquestionably faster in high school. That is, in my view, a miscarriage of justice.

Track is literally a zero sum game. When one wins, another loses. And qualifying races start the first year of high school.

The number of girls going to college on an athletic scholarship is a rounding error compared to the number of girls in sports. If colleges want to make girls' scholarships available only to biological girls and women, I wouldn't personally have a problem with that. I just don't think trans-girls should be excluded from girls sports as a matter of course. I think we lose site of the big picture when we focus narrowly on the very top athletes and then use those concerns to make policy affecting the median and lower level athletes who are, nevertheless, getting a variety of benefits from participating in sports.

But the world doesn’t work this way. At the elite levels, which start in middle school, athletics is a zero-sum game. A girl who doesn’t get a spot on the track team does not get the better coaching and exposure that leads to the offer of a position on the regional team, etc. Look, I can tell you have no experience at all with competitive middle school and high school athletes, but what you are saying simply doesn’t work for those ages because athletics is a zero sum game. If a trans girl takes the spot of an otherwise competitive high school runner, that high school runner isn’t getting a scholarship opportunity. And it’s not just college: it’s varsity sports, it’s local scholarships, it’s training for the next level. You think college athletics is this unique independent thing that has nothing to do with teen youth sports, and that is absolutely not tethered to any reality whatsoever.

I am ok with trans girls joining purely rec teams and teams of kids under age 8. But I think it is grossly unfair and misogynist to allow trans girls to take spots from natal girls in teen girl competitive sports.

Honestly, this sounds like a problem with how kids' athletics are structured that goes beyond gender issues.

Fine, but that doesn’t change the reality, which is that trans girls in competitive girls sports at the middle and high school level take opportunities away from natal girls. You may not like the system, but it is how it works.

I’m not sure what else you want. You want very competitive kids to not be competitive? Do you prefer the European and Chinese system where kids who aren’t identified at age 8 never have a chance at high-level athletics again?

If you don’t like kids playing competitive sports, I don’t know what to tell you. Some kids like being very competitive athletes, and some of those kids are natal girls. You appear to wish natal girls weren’t competitive athletes so you don’t have to deal with the fact that they are losing opportunities, but they exist.

When you say competitive athletics, are you referring to athletics with scholarships only or are you saying no trans girl should be allowed to play sports in high school? What about something like cheerleading where it's sort of individual as well as team based? Some schools definitely give scholarships for it.

I don’t think trans girls past age 8 or 10 (eg past puberty onset) should be allowed to play in any girls sport where there is a competitive tryout. I am fine with them joining rec teams or no-cut high school teams. But where a team has tryouts or cuts (varsity sports, club teams, select teams, etc.), I think it is grotesquely unfair and morally wrong to allow trans girls who have started or gone through male puberty to take a spot that would otherwise be taken by a natal girl.

Cheerleading is extremely competitive and I would say that the same rule should apply.