I disagree with Rowling on trans-issues *and* I think Rowling's critics are dishonest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

The number is higher than you think. In California where prisoners are allowed to self-id as women and move to women’s prisons, hundreds have requested transfers. https://womensliberationfront.org/news/wolf-submits-additional-testimony-opposing-prison-id-bill-in-maryland?format=amp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:J.K. Rowling has said some stuff I disagree with about trans issues. She seems to think that the danger to women biologically born that way from trans-women entering women's spaces is greater than I think the reality actually is. I'm not a woman, trans or otherwise, so my opinion on that issue doesn't necessarily carry any weight. But I know that a lot of biological women are on the side of trans-women and don't really care if, say, they come into women's bathrooms.

So, anyway, I think Rowling has it wrong on trans issues. On the other hand, I routinely see characterizations of Rowling's positions from trans-advocates that just aren't supported by Rowling's actual statements. For example, a tweet from someone with 90k followers came across my feed saying, "Rowling literally tweeted that all trans women should legally be presumed to be rapists." (https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1626209112630628352) That's a pretty concrete declaration. The author is not speaking figuratively and says that this is something that has been tweeted by Rowling. When asked for a screenshot or link to this specific statement ... the response that it was not a tweet and that the actual quote was, "it is dangerous to assert that any category of people deserves a blanket presumption of innocence." Which is ... a little bit different.

I mean, I guess I don't worry too much about Rowling -- she can cry herself to sleep on big old bales of money. But overheated rhetoric about a more nuanced line of conversation, in my opinion, undermines trans-advocacy.

A lot of colleges have co Ed bathrooms and it is fine. This bathroom thing is a non issue. Go use the facility and go about your business. Male, female, trans, etc. Has nothing to do with it. This entire issue will die out with all oth older folks that are wound up about it for some reason.

I am Old and could not care less about unisex bathrooms.

However, I agree with OP that Rowling’s views are often distorted.

JKR has a good point that there has been a tsunami of female - male transgender candidates (in past the numbers were much lower and mostly male to female). I support transgender rights but think it is important for people to be very careful and circumspect before they make any permanent irreversible changes. I don’t think anyone should have surgery before adulthood as their feelings and thoughts may change. But who cares if they change their names and dress using clothes normally associated with the opposite gender?

Most importantly, I agree that there is a strong possibility that the huge uptick in female to male transgender candidates are motivated by wide spread online misogyny. Girls and young women are flooded by mixed messages, premature sexualization, excessive focus on physical appearance and generally disrespectful online messaging towards females.

There is also too much pressure in social media for young people to declare their identities to be this or that before they have had a chance to live life and figure out who they are over time in real life situations and relationships. We all have both male and female qualities (or qualities traditionally seen as more indicative of one gender or the other) — and I agree with JKR that decisions to permanently change anatomy should not be taken quickly, lightly or too young.

There is a middle way way where young people who do not yet know how they will wish to identify as adults should be able to wear clothes traditionally associated with opposite gender, or wear hair and makeup if they are male, or change their names.

At a minimum schools should provide some unisex bathroom options for gender ambivalent students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyperbole is common for this situation. I saw someone on Instagram declaring that Bethany Hamilton was transphobic when what she actually said was that she didn’t agree with World Surf League rules allowing trans women to compete in female divisions. That is not the same thing as being transphobic.

FWIW I think JK has dug her heels too far into the trans issue and I don’t necessarily agree with her on it, but I’m not surprised at all that the internet is taking it wildly out of context.

+1. Although I will also say that Rowling has done herself no favors by aligning herself with people who transphobic, such as Matt Walsh (who also happens to be a racist and misogynist).

There'es really no one else left who is willing to speak for women. You can say that she's aligned herself with bad people - but all the "good" people are only willing to speak in favor of transwomen, not women.

FWIW, I have friends who say the same thing, that JKR is bad and wrong because she retweets stuff from bad people. But who else is speaking for women? Who else should JKR retweet? And what does that say about the good people?

The bolded is just an indication that this is another example of right wing manufactured outrage. Twitter is not real life. And if you want to "speak for women" then you probably shouldn't praise someone who actually hates them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

So you combine all the trans prisoners in a state into one specific prison. Or combine them into one prison for multiple states so that there are enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyperbole is common for this situation. I saw someone on Instagram declaring that Bethany Hamilton was transphobic when what she actually said was that she didn’t agree with World Surf League rules allowing trans women to compete in female divisions. That is not the same thing as being transphobic.

FWIW I think JK has dug her heels too far into the trans issue and I don’t necessarily agree with her on it, but I’m not surprised at all that the internet is taking it wildly out of context.

+1. Although I will also say that Rowling has done herself no favors by aligning herself with people who transphobic, such as Matt Walsh (who also happens to be a racist and misogynist).

There'es really no one else left who is willing to speak for women. You can say that she's aligned herself with bad people - but all the "good" people are only willing to speak in favor of transwomen, not women.

FWIW, I have friends who say the same thing, that JKR is bad and wrong because she retweets stuff from bad people. But who else is speaking for women? Who else should JKR retweet? And what does that say about the good people?

The bolded is just an indication that this is another example of right wing manufactured outrage. Twitter is not real life. And if you want to "speak for women" then you probably shouldn't praise someone who actually hates them.

JKR getting dropped from Hogwarts, banned from mention, etc. are just manufactured outrage?

I'm not sure she, or any of the Harry Potter stars who are awkwardly trying to distance themselves from her, would agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyperbole is common for this situation. I saw someone on Instagram declaring that Bethany Hamilton was transphobic when what she actually said was that she didn’t agree with World Surf League rules allowing trans women to compete in female divisions. That is not the same thing as being transphobic.

FWIW I think JK has dug her heels too far into the trans issue and I don’t necessarily agree with her on it, but I’m not surprised at all that the internet is taking it wildly out of context.

+1. Although I will also say that Rowling has done herself no favors by aligning herself with people who transphobic, such as Matt Walsh (who also happens to be a racist and misogynist).

There'es really no one else left who is willing to speak for women. You can say that she's aligned herself with bad people - but all the "good" people are only willing to speak in favor of transwomen, not women.

FWIW, I have friends who say the same thing, that JKR is bad and wrong because she retweets stuff from bad people. But who else is speaking for women? Who else should JKR retweet? And what does that say about the good people?

The bolded is just an indication that this is another example of right wing manufactured outrage. Twitter is not real life. And if you want to "speak for women" then you probably shouldn't praise someone who actually hates them.

JKR getting dropped from Hogwarts, banned from mention, etc. are just manufactured outrage?

I'm not sure she, or any of the Harry Potter stars who are awkwardly trying to distance themselves from her, would agree with you.

Hogwarts isn't a real school....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

So you combine all the trans prisoners in a state into one specific prison. Or combine them into one prison for multiple states so that there are enough.

That’s considered invalidating. It’s similar to the issues around bathrooms in schools. Trans-identified students who’ve been offered private bathrooms have refused them and sued for access to bathrooms that match their gender identity. That’s what happened in the Gavin Grimm case. In VT, the girls volleyball team was locked out of their locker room for complaining about sharing with a trans-identified born-male student. https://wpde.com/amp/news/nation-world/school-bans-girls-volleyball-team-from-locker-room-following-complaints-about-trans-player-transgender-women-bathroom-privacy-vermont-randolph-high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

So you combine all the trans prisoners in a state into one specific prison. Or combine them into one prison for multiple states so that there are enough.

That’s considered invalidating. It’s similar to the issues around bathrooms in schools. Trans-identified students who’ve been offered private bathrooms have refused them and sued for access to bathrooms that match their gender identity. That’s what happened in the Gavin Grimm case. In VT, the girls volleyball team was locked out of their locker room for complaining about sharing with a trans-identified born-male student. https://wpde.com/amp/news/nation-world/school-bans-girls-volleyball-team-from-locker-room-following-complaints-about-trans-player-transgender-women-bathroom-privacy-vermont-randolph-high.

Trans prisoners are already largely placed into men's prisons. As far as I know, they don't generally get a say in where they're placed. I'm sure most would be more than happy to be housed together. Or are you saying you don't want this?

[Anonymous]

NP. Respectfully, OP, you have no idea how bad things have gotten in Scotland for natal women. Rowling lives in Edinburgh. Scotland (until finally the government backed down a few days ago because of public pressure) put convicted rapists in women’s prison based only on prisoner self-id as a woman. Rowling self-funded a rape crisis center staffed only by natal women because she herself is an assault survivor and the trans woman head of Scotland’s biggest rape crisis center said that rape victims who don’t want to be seen by people with penises need to “reframe” their trauma and have a “more positive relationship” with that trauma, and she referred to rape victims who don’t want to be seen by people with penises after they have been raped as “bigots.” Links below:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-63943766
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-64586523
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotlands-original-rape-crisis-founder-28737168


Rowling has received innumerable death and rape threats for doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

Do you somehow think a predatory rapist who has “completed the transition” is less likely to rape?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

So you combine all the trans prisoners in a state into one specific prison. Or combine them into one prison for multiple states so that there are enough.

That’s considered invalidating. It’s similar to the issues around bathrooms in schools. Trans-identified students who’ve been offered private bathrooms have refused them and sued for access to bathrooms that match their gender identity. That’s what happened in the Gavin Grimm case. In VT, the girls volleyball team was locked out of their locker room for complaining about sharing with a trans-identified born-male student. https://wpde.com/amp/news/nation-world/school-bans-girls-volleyball-team-from-locker-room-following-complaints-about-trans-player-transgender-women-bathroom-privacy-vermont-randolph-high.

Trans prisoners are already largely placed into men's prisons. As far as I know, they don't generally get a say in where they're placed. I'm sure most would be more than happy to be housed together. Or are you saying you don't want this?

The progressive parts of the country are more and more giving trans prisoners the choice. It's part of the ideology that trans men should be treated as men and trans women should be treated as women if they so choose.

As far as getting housed together, it's a spectrum in terms of how much people wanted to be treated as their identified gender. Some would be ok being sent to a trans prison. Other people wouldn't and would demand to be sent to a women's prison.