I disagree with Rowling on trans-issues *and* I think Rowling's critics are dishonest

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

There can't be many trans people in prison. Can't trans prisoners be put into a separate wing in a prison or something?

They share common spaces unless you put them in the isolation cells. There aren't enough trans prisoners to have a separate wing.

So you combine all the trans prisoners in a state into one specific prison. Or combine them into one prison for multiple states so that there are enough.

That’s considered invalidating. It’s similar to the issues around bathrooms in schools. Trans-identified students who’ve been offered private bathrooms have refused them and sued for access to bathrooms that match their gender identity. That’s what happened in the Gavin Grimm case. In VT, the girls volleyball team was locked out of their locker room for complaining about sharing with a trans-identified born-male student. https://wpde.com/amp/news/nation-world/school-bans-girls-volleyball-team-from-locker-room-following-complaints-about-trans-player-transgender-women-bathroom-privacy-vermont-randolph-high.

Trans prisoners are already largely placed into men's prisons. As far as I know, they don't generally get a say in where they're placed. I'm sure most would be more than happy to be housed together. Or are you saying you don't want this?

The progressive parts of the country are more and more giving trans prisoners the choice. It's part of the ideology that trans men should be treated as men and trans women should be treated as women if they so choose.

As far as getting housed together, it's a spectrum in terms of how much people wanted to be treated as their identified gender. Some would be ok being sent to a trans prison. Other people wouldn't and would demand to be sent to a women's prison.

Most prisoners, trans or not, have little say in where they're housed. Most trans women are housed in men's prisons.

Do you think having a prison for trans people to be housed together (regardless of what they want) is a good idea? I think so.

[Anonymous]

Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

Trans people exist. Period.

I imagine surgery for minors could be banned in the US and red states may ban medication for minors but not blue states. The UK and the US are nothing alike. Sure you recognize that. Do you really think that Maryland is going to ban gender affirming care? Or DC? I'm assuming here of course that you actually live in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

Trans people exist. Period.

I imagine surgery for minors could be banned in the US and red states may ban medication for minors but not blue states. The UK and the US are nothing alike. Sure you recognize that. Do you really think that Maryland is going to ban gender affirming care? Or DC? I'm assuming here of course that you actually live in the DMV.

Parents exist in both red and blue states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

Trans people exist. Period.

I imagine surgery for minors could be banned in the US and red states may ban medication for minors but not blue states. The UK and the US are nothing alike. Sure you recognize that. Do you really think that Maryland is going to ban gender affirming care? Or DC? I'm assuming here of course that you actually live in the DMV.

Parents exist in both red and blue states.

[Anonymous]

I’m guessing OP started this thread as an exercise in groupthink.

Unless you’re new here, you know full well no one’s allowed to opine against the Official Correct Progressive Position on trans people in this forum without their comment being deleted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

Trans people exist. Period.

I imagine surgery for minors could be banned in the US and red states may ban medication for minors but not blue states. The UK and the US are nothing alike. Sure you recognize that. Do you really think that Maryland is going to ban gender affirming care? Or DC? I'm assuming here of course that you actually live in the DMV.

I can put on blue makeup and say blue people exist. Your point is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Britain is ahead of the US with dialogues over trans issues. It's not just Rowling but BBC did a major expose of the biggest trans clinic in the country and how the clinic workers were rushing transition treatments for children who were actually autistic or confused more with their sexuality than gender, to the point we need to reevaluate the sincerity of the concept there is genuinely a biological basis for trans. People are becoming a lot more honest about trans because the activism went too far and extreme to the point there's now no choice but to be honest.

The same is starting to happen in the US too.

Trans people exist. Period.

I imagine surgery for minors could be banned in the US and red states may ban medication for minors but not blue states. The UK and the US are nothing alike. Sure you recognize that. Do you really think that Maryland is going to ban gender affirming care? Or DC? I'm assuming here of course that you actually live in the DMV.

Oh we know. Because they can’t stop talking about themselves All. The. Time.
The demands from this group get an outsized amount of public attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

Do you somehow think a predatory rapist who has “completed the transition” is less likely to rape?

He would no longer have a penis so he'd have to penetrate me with something else. He'd have to be willing to give up his usual weapon of choice - his penis - to get into a women's prison. So yes, I think it would make it harder for him to rape me.

[Anonymous]

Just curious, how long must a man identify as a woman before they could take advantage of things like scholarships, grants, and training opportunities for things like women in STEM. 2 years? 4 years? 5 months? Where's the line?

It might be worth it if you have a boy in high schoo,l who wants to study engineering in college, to start claiming they're a girl. Can get some sweet scholarships and internship opportunities for women in STEM on top of diversity initiatives for trans in STEM.

Then shed the image later after you graduate. Better than ID as a girl for a few years in order to avoid student loans and get bonus diversity points for internship opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious, how long must a man identify as a woman before they could take advantage of things like scholarships, grants, and training opportunities for things like women in STEM. 2 years? 4 years? 5 months? Where's the line?

It might be worth it if you have a boy in high schoo,l who wants to study engineering in college, to start claiming they're a girl. Can get some sweet scholarships and internship opportunities for women in STEM on top of diversity initiatives for trans in STEM.

Then shed the image later after you graduate. Better than ID as a girl for a few years in order to avoid student loans and get bonus diversity points for internship opportunities.

As a natal woman in STEM, I can tell you this isn't true. Would be nice though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Because biological males are more likely to be violent than biological females, and violent people are incarcerated at a higher rate than non violent people, so the population of a men’s prison is a threat to EVERYONE: biological women, trans women, non binary people, trans men and other biological men. NO ONE feels safe in a men’s prison. Everyone knows they’d be safer in women’s spaces. It’s not fair to biological females, but people are going to work all the angles in the name of self preservation.

[Anonymous]

There is an opinion column in the NYT today about JK Rowling and how she has been treated:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/16/opinion/jk-rowling-transphobia.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figures OP is a man. I believe people should have a right to transition and everyone should be treated with respect.

However, scenarios JK Rowlings warned about are now occurring. It’s wrong to put a biological male rapist who still has a penis is a woman’s jail just because after he was arrested he suddenly decided to declare he was a trans woman. That occurred in Scotland where JKR is from. There are numerous cases in the US now of trans women who are intimidating women in prison. One case where a mentally disabled women end up being sexually abused in prison.

I don’t understand how there isn’t a third option in terms of prisons. Have a women section, a trans section for women who haven’t surgically transitioned, and a mens section. Why is it always women who have to concede and make nice. There are cases where sex offenders are going to women’s locker rooms and spas and by saying they are trans they get to watch naked women and girls and show their genitalia. There aren’t many cases but there are enough that it is concerning. There has to be a middle ground.

Please list what it is JK Rowlings said that is so disrespectful.

Has anyone heard of trans men who insist on staying in the male section of prisons?

The whole prison thing - seems to me that you can "identify" however you want. If you have a penis, you remain in the men's prison.

Want to go to the women's prison, you have to have completed the transition. Not at taxpayer expense, either.

Do you somehow think a predatory rapist who has “completed the transition” is less likely to rape?

He would no longer have a penis so he'd have to penetrate me with something else. He'd have to be willing to give up his usual weapon of choice - his penis - to get into a women's prison. So yes, I think it would make it harder for him to rape me.

That’s not true at all. In many states the law says they only have to identify as female to get into female prisons. No surgery required. That’s how a transwoman in a NJ prison managed to get two female inmates pregnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyperbole is common for this situation. I saw someone on Instagram declaring that Bethany Hamilton was transphobic when what she actually said was that she didn’t agree with World Surf League rules allowing trans women to compete in female divisions. That is not the same thing as being transphobic.

FWIW I think JK has dug her heels too far into the trans issue and I don’t necessarily agree with her on it, but I’m not surprised at all that the internet is taking it wildly out of context.

+1. Although I will also say that Rowling has done herself no favors by aligning herself with people who transphobic, such as Matt Walsh (who also happens to be a racist and misogynist).

There'es really no one else left who is willing to speak for women. You can say that she's aligned herself with bad people - but all the "good" people are only willing to speak in favor of transwomen, not women.

FWIW, I have friends who say the same thing, that JKR is bad and wrong because she retweets stuff from bad people. But who else is speaking for women? Who else should JKR retweet? And what does that say about the good people?

I can think of some good people who spoke out for women (didn't Martina Navratilova speak out for women? This one actress whose name escapes me?) Neither of those people would be considered the least bit right-wing. Yet they were shut down immediately. It's not worth it for good people to speak out for women because they are immediately labeled transphobic.