Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I volunteered in my child’s first grade class six years ago at a school that sounds identical to OP’s. There were 29 kids in the class, essentially a full time aide for the kids with diagnosed challenges, and it was STILL an unbelievably hot mess.

Kid throwing furniture, spitting all over the class, screaming, trying to leave, just general chaotic, disruptive behavior. The class was across the hall from the room that was designated for kids who have outbursts, and it was a nonstop revolving door of out-of-control kids from all over the school being dragged down the hall to that classroom.

We left after that year, went to private. Never intended to not go to our neighborhood FCPS school, but what a disaster.

Similar story in an MCPS Kindergaten class. It was SO terrible for my kid, who was quiet and non-disruptive. We didn't realize the full situation (and the reasons behind my kid's behavioral change/self perception until a couple months in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think our kids don’t tell us this stuff? We know.

What are you doing to help get troubled kids the help they need? (That the school frequently refuses to provide.)

I know that some of the parents don’t want to admit their kids may have any problems. One is a kid who the school has pushed to get tested and parents refuse. For another kid who is consistently violent and disruptive, I don’t know what can be done by the school beyond what’s been done. I’ve been to told to document.

Testing is very expensive, and often not covered by insurance. We do not qualify for low income programs, and still can't afford 4-6k in testing.

If the teacher is the one pushing the testing for a disruptive child, then the testing will be performed by the school district, at no cost to the parents.

[Anonymous]

I do think the pendulum has swung a little too far in terms of the inclusion philosophy at public schools. It's not fair to the teachers or the neurotypical students when there are students in the class who have needs that can't be met in a normal classroom.

If the schools had the resources to provide sufficient staff to help teachers manage those students it might be a different story. But they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid with dyslexia and an IEP. He's currently in classes with the additional teacher, which means that there are a high number of spec ed kids in that class. He's in MS now.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have refused all classes with aides in his plan. He's currently enrolling in HS and our plan is to keep him out of all such classes. The behavior disruptions are off the hook. It's untenable.

My younger DS has ADHD and a 504. We will have him not go anywhere near those types of classes. He doesn't have any behavior components to his ADHD.

It's not that these kids with behaviors in school are necessarily bad kids. Actually, they're often funny and nice and can be very polite. No thanks, though, in a classroom environment.

It is a big problem in ES that they group all the kids with IEPs together and allow kids to remain in Gen Ed that clearly are unable to succeed in that setting. My DD has anxiety and dyslexia and had a very hard time at the beginning of the year with all the noise and chaos of her class and one very disruptive student who really should not be in Gen Ed. She was using her flash pass quite a bit just to not be in the classroom, so the inclusion of this other student meant that my child was being excluded from the classroom. Things evened out a bit, but it is still a challenge.

My high-schooler has been in team taught classes since middle school and has not had a problem with disruptive kids. The times he complains about disruptive kids are in PE and his foreign language (which is Gen Ed). So I think team taught classes in middle school and high school may be school/class dependent and we may have gotten lucky. But I think by middle school, some of the kids that should not have been in Gen Ed can actually be moved to self-contained classes, which helps the team taught and Gen Ed classes not be disrupted as often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how it’s ok to let children stay in a classroom when they are physically and verbally assaulting other kids and the teacher.

It isn't. But there don't appear to be any options these days.

Because of inclusion and LRE (least restrictive environment) laws in special education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think the pendulum has swung a little too far in terms of the inclusion philosophy at public schools. It's not fair to the teachers or the neurotypical students when there are students in the class who have needs that can't be met in a normal classroom.

If the schools had the resources to provide sufficient staff to help teachers manage those students it might be a different story. But they don't.

Yep, this. It is really unfair the majority of kids that they are held hostage by other kids with these issues. If you are a parent of a child who disrupts the learning of all the other kids, how do you justify yourself? Don’t you feel bad?

[Anonymous]

We have had the same experience in my top elementary school (top ten in state) in a wealthy area. The classes sizes are really small (under 20) with an aid but we have a similar situation with 2-3 kids who need a lot of help and my average kid gets a little lost in the shuffle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think our kids don’t tell us this stuff? We know.

What are you doing to help get troubled kids the help they need? (That the school frequently refuses to provide.)

I know that some of the parents don’t want to admit their kids may have any problems. One is a kid who the school has pushed to get tested and parents refuse. For another kid who is consistently violent and disruptive, I don’t know what can be done by the school beyond what’s been done. I’ve been to told to document.

Testing is very expensive, and often not covered by insurance. We do not qualify for low income programs, and still can't afford 4-6k in testing.

"Pushed to get tested" as in evaluated by the school district. Not tested privately. That's not legal, for one, and evaluations are free and a legal mandate when teacher or parent suspects there is a disability. Unfortunately, parents have to sign off on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think the pendulum has swung a little too far in terms of the inclusion philosophy at public schools. It's not fair to the teachers or the neurotypical students when there are students in the class who have needs that can't be met in a normal classroom.

If the schools had the resources to provide sufficient staff to help teachers manage those students it might be a different story. But they don't.

Yep, this. It is really unfair the majority of kids that they are held hostage by other kids with these issues. If you are a parent of a child who disrupts the learning of all the other kids, how do you justify yourself? Don’t you feel bad?

They don’t. Their job as a parent is to push what’s best for their kid. Doesn’t matter if your kid is steamrolled in the process. You, and all other parents of kids impacted by behaviorally challenged kids should have the same philosophy. Instead you are expected to have empathy and “give grace”.

[Anonymous]

I’d like to clarify that I am not against differentiated instruction and educating kids of different abilities and levels!

I’m talking about the maybe 1-2% of kids who really shouldn’t be in the mainstream classroom. It is not serving their needs and in many cases are negatively affecting their classmates’ learning. In at least one case I saw this week, there is a class with a kid who can barely write letters (not talking about spelling or phonics or word formation, I mean he literally cannot even copy individual letters). I’m not sure the teacher has any idea because of all the time and energy going into this other one kid.

That handful of kids (and so far it really is 1% of kids) need to be in a smaller group and they need to be taught at their level and skills built up from there.

The other big issue that bothers me is the school lunch piece. I know this is old news by now, but seeing in person the junk that is served daily to young kids is so disheartening

[Anonymous]

^ I’m sure the teacher has no idea about the kid who cannot write, because the focus on that class is on a different kid with significant behavioral and emotional issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to clarify that I am not against differentiated instruction and educating kids of different abilities and levels!

I’m talking about the maybe 1-2% of kids who really shouldn’t be in the mainstream classroom. It is not serving their needs and in many cases are negatively affecting their classmates’ learning. In at least one case I saw this week, there is a class with a kid who can barely write letters (not talking about spelling or phonics or word formation, I mean he literally cannot even copy individual letters). I’m not sure the teacher has any idea because of all the time and energy going into this other one kid.

That handful of kids (and so far it really is 1% of kids) need to be in a smaller group and they need to be taught at their level and skills built up from there.

The other big issue that bothers me is the school lunch piece. I know this is old news by now, but seeing in person the junk that is served daily to young kids is so disheartening

It's absolute junk and I'm continuously appalled that we allow this.

There is no reasonable excuse for the trash that schools serve to children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ I’m sure the teacher has no idea about the kid who cannot write, because the focus on that class is on a different kid with significant behavioral and emotional issues.

If the parents have the money for testing, the kid who can’t write has a purchased diagnosis and an IEP with requirements the parents are able to constantly follow up on. If the behavior problem’s parents don’t agree to testing, then no such goals exist

[Anonymous]

And this is why parents pay $45-50K for private school, or test prep to get kids into AAP.

OP, what state/county are you in?

[Anonymous]

All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…