Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, in order to get a child special education services the teacher needs to document. That is why in K and 1st grade it is impossible to move a child out of a classroom. You have to first start the documentation process, then have a meeting, document more, have another meeting, then testing, then another meeting It takes monthsssss to get the ball rolling on anything. And the teacher needs to be at those meetings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

They need more teachers. And less secretaries, "coaches," administrators, and layers upon layers of useless paper-pushers.

We need less IEPs that REQUIRE classroom teachers to spend HOURS per week documenting.

I'm not sure what district and school you are in, but when I was teaching in Fairfax classroom teachers did not spend hours documenting for IEPs. The special ed teachers did most of that.

When did you last teach in Fairfax? 20 years ago? You know that kids in non-special ed classrooms now have IEPs and they are not taught by Special Ed teachers, right?

That poster was either never a teacher or not one in decades. Such an ignorant comment to not understand the roles of Gen Ed teachers.

[Anonymous]

I for one am grateful to the parents of the kids with dyslexia who have pretty much been the only group fighting for effective reading instruction for years. Without their efforts my child would have been another victim of the Lucy Calkins/ Fountas & Pinnell nonsense.

Universal design for instruction helps all learners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

I'm from Europe. Part of the reason why I stayed here for good (or until I retire, at least) is that my first child was born with special needs and I knew my home country's education system had nothing for him. NOTHING. Parents of autistic kids in my country often become indigent because they cannot go to work because their kids cannot go to school!!! Please let that sink in. OF COURSE PUBLIC EDUCATION COSTS ARE LOWER WHEN YOU DON'T ACCOMMODATE THE CHILDREN WHO NEED MORE CARE. European public school systems are narrowly focused on the middle range of achievers. There is no gifted education. No special needs education. Teachers are rigid and expect children to adapt to their teaching style. Here in America it's the opposite, where teachers are trained to adapt to children's learning styles. It's a completely different philosophy. If only we could have the best of both worlds: European educational rigor, with American child-centered focus and attention paid to both extremes of development.

Americans do not realize how economically-sound their public school system really is, thanks to IDEA. It allows parents of kids with special needs to place them safely where there is the least likelihood of abuse (institutions and special schools are notorious for that), harbor some hope they will progress and become independent one day, and it allows them to contribute to the economy and maintain a certain level of dignity. I am incredibly grateful for that federal law, its particular implementation in Montgomery County, and our professional ability to get visas to stay here. We pay all of our taxes in the US, thanks to an agreement between my home country and the USA, so we are stakeholders too, despite not being citizens. We pay into the system just like you.

Now does the current system always work? No. I have witnessed massive disruption to classes when one child has behaviors that stop instruction and bother other children. The push for LRE is misguided. I know many parents of kids with special needs WHO DO NOT WANT LEAST RESTRICTIVE EDUCATION. It is applied to the extreme in cases where a child could never hope to gain anything from a mainstream classroom, because it is the least expensive option. I personally know parents who have fought their public school system to place their kids in more restrictive environments, but there are limited in seats and some are very expensive for the County, if they need specialized private schools that the County pays for. Some reasonably well-off parents choose to homeschool instead.

The American philosophy of meeting each child where they are is in my mind the pinnacle of a civilized society. You should be proud of your country in that regard. No other country in the world has pushed as far as the USA to include every child in its public education effort. It has lifted many families out of poverty because they could finally go to work, and it has trained children who might otherwise never had received a degree to be functional and employable. PLEASE FACTOR THIS INTO YOUR FINANCIAL CALCULATIONS.

We just need to tweak it. Surely we can do that.

It's very true that the US educational system is great compared to most others when it comes to significant disabilities, like autism. However, that's a pretty small subset of children, and you need to understand that serving special needs populations as well as we do results in negative effects for the majority of other children.

Surely you're intelligent enough to understand that the inclusion of all children benefits more than the autistic subset. We're talking about all sorts of developmental delays, the giant ADHD group, the dyslexics, dyscalculics, dysgraphics, the kids with impaired hearing or impaired sight, those in wheelchairs, the giant anxiety group, those with depression, bipolar disorders, and other psychiatric ailments. There are a kids with chronic physical diseases whose treatment needs perturb their education, there are kids with cancer, particularly around NIH, because their families have the right to enroll their kids in nearby MCPS schools while their child is being treated there. I knew of a child with a specific short-term memory issue. There are so many children with varying needs!!!

Please realize that special needs come in all sorts of future options: there are kids with mild special needs who will go on to be very traditionally successful; those with moderate needs that can be perfectly functional and independent as adults; and those that will never be independent but who can be socialized and taught to advocate for themselves in some measure to make their lives safer (always a critical issue with the latter cohort). The range of functionality and futures runs the gamut!

Educating these children is making sure they are not a burden, or as light a burden as possible, to YOUR children when they're all adults and paying taxes. You've got to stop being so short-sighted and selfish, PP.

I completely agree with you that the current system can be detrimental to certain kids if they're unlucky enough to be in the class with a habitual disrupter. My kids have been in those classes. But despite one of them having an IEP himself, my kids are both functional enough to power through and be successful no matter who is in their class. The burden they bear is NOTHING compared to the burden the disrupter bears.

I support efforts to change the system just enough that children and teachers can be protected and shielded from the worse behaviors of certain perturbed children - everyone in that situation deserves better, most of all, the perturbed child themselves!

But DO NOT imply that our society should stop including and helping the immense numbers of children with special needs. One of them might cure your cancer one day. They are not all cognitively impaired, you know. Some of them are very bright indeed. My husband has ADHD/Asperger's, he has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. I know what I'm talking about.

I strongly disagree that kids with anxiety or adhd benefit by having kids with autism or other highly disruptive or explosive behaviors in the classroom. On the contrary, they benefit from a calm and orderly environment with strong expectations. And absolutely nobody is talking about kids with hearing aids. They aren’t the ones stopping an entire generation of kids from learning.

[Anonymous]

It's very true that the US educational system is great compared to most others when it comes to significant disabilities, like autism. However, that's a pretty small subset of children, and you need to understand that serving special needs populations as well as we do results in negative effects for the majority of other children.

25% of school-age children is not a small subset of children. That’s 1 out of every 4. We should absolutely educate those children appropriately if for no other reason than for the good of the country.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid with dyslexia and an IEP. He's currently in classes with the additional teacher, which means that there are a high number of spec ed kids in that class. He's in MS now.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have refused all classes with aides in his plan. He's currently enrolling in HS and our plan is to keep him out of all such classes. The behavior disruptions are off the hook. It's untenable.

My younger DS has ADHD and a 504. We will have him not go anywhere near those types of classes. He doesn't have any behavior components to his ADHD.

It's not that these kids with behaviors in school are necessarily bad kids. Actually, they're often funny and nice and can be very polite. No thanks, though, in a classroom environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid with dyslexia and an IEP. He's currently in classes with the additional teacher, which means that there are a high number of spec ed kids in that class. He's in MS now.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have refused all classes with aides in his plan. He's currently enrolling in HS and our plan is to keep him out of all such classes. The behavior disruptions are off the hook. It's untenable.

My younger DS has ADHD and a 504. We will have him not go anywhere near those types of classes. He doesn't have any behavior components to his ADHD.

It's not that these kids with behaviors in school are necessarily bad kids. Actually, they're often funny and nice and can be very polite. No thanks, though, in a classroom environment.

My middle schooler is getting push in services for the first time (ELA and math every day!) and it's amazing. She has ADHD, dyslexia, and anxiety. I have heard nothing bad about the other kids and finally she is getting support to stay on task and complete work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1. If you haven’t been in a classroom as either a student or a staff member in the past 20 years, you have no idea.

Having a one-on-one aid is a great idea if you want to put two kids who are disorganized and a little slow in a mainstream class. The aid can help them keep papers organized, transition to new projects and subjects through the day, and re-explain things the teacher's just said. But those kids HAVE to be well-behaved and trying. If they are running around screaming or being loud they aren't learning and are distracting the other kids from learning.

These days, it is very difficult to get a one-on-one and even if it is okayed, it is next to impossible to find someone. Even an admin at my school lamented about how long it took her child to get once (and she knew exactly what needed to be done to get one!)

Because the pay is terrible. And, lots of people look down on aides. Not a lot of people lining up for the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

I’m so sick of people claiming there’s “no funding” or “not enough funding” in our schools. Schools in DC spend literally more than $22k per year per kid, average. Some are obviously a lot more. Schools in Florida spend $9k and that’s still high, relatively speaking. Other Western countries spend WAY less than we do in the US. People need to start acknowledging that if an average of $22k/year isn’t enough to get all students meeting a basic grade level standard then money is NOT the problem and more money is NOT the answer.

They can start by getting all the disruptive kids out of our classrooms and back into special facilities that are equipped (no scissors, yes metal detectors, yes guards) and trained (staff with personal defense training plus deescalation techniques etc plus aides floating around) to handle them.

The problem is the students and the parents. Not the schools. Schools don’t need more money or more anything. They need less of the thing that’s destroying them, which is disruptive students.

I'm from Europe. Part of the reason why I stayed here for good (or until I retire, at least) is that my first child was born with special needs and I knew my home country's education system had nothing for him. NOTHING. Parents of autistic kids in my country often become indigent because they cannot go to work because their kids cannot go to school!!! Please let that sink in. OF COURSE PUBLIC EDUCATION COSTS ARE LOWER WHEN YOU DON'T ACCOMMODATE THE CHILDREN WHO NEED MORE CARE. European public school systems are narrowly focused on the middle range of achievers. There is no gifted education. No special needs education. Teachers are rigid and expect children to adapt to their teaching style. Here in America it's the opposite, where teachers are trained to adapt to children's learning styles. It's a completely different philosophy. If only we could have the best of both worlds: European educational rigor, with American child-centered focus and attention paid to both extremes of development.

Americans do not realize how economically-sound their public school system really is, thanks to IDEA. It allows parents of kids with special needs to place them safely where there is the least likelihood of abuse (institutions and special schools are notorious for that), harbor some hope they will progress and become independent one day, and it allows them to contribute to the economy and maintain a certain level of dignity. I am incredibly grateful for that federal law, its particular implementation in Montgomery County, and our professional ability to get visas to stay here. We pay all of our taxes in the US, thanks to an agreement between my home country and the USA, so we are stakeholders too, despite not being citizens. We pay into the system just like you.

Now does the current system always work? No. I have witnessed massive disruption to classes when one child has behaviors that stop instruction and bother other children. The push for LRE is misguided. I know many parents of kids with special needs WHO DO NOT WANT LEAST RESTRICTIVE EDUCATION. It is applied to the extreme in cases where a child could never hope to gain anything from a mainstream classroom, because it is the least expensive option. I personally know parents who have fought their public school system to place their kids in more restrictive environments, but there are limited in seats and some are very expensive for the County, if they need specialized private schools that the County pays for. Some reasonably well-off parents choose to homeschool instead.

The American philosophy of meeting each child where they are is in my mind the pinnacle of a civilized society. You should be proud of your country in that regard. No other country in the world has pushed as far as the USA to include every child in its public education effort. It has lifted many families out of poverty because they could finally go to work, and it has trained children who might otherwise never had received a degree to be functional and employable. PLEASE FACTOR THIS INTO YOUR FINANCIAL CALCULATIONS.

We just need to tweak it. Surely we can do that.

It's very true that the US educational system is great compared to most others when it comes to significant disabilities, like autism. However, that's a pretty small subset of children, and you need to understand that serving special needs populations as well as we do results in negative effects for the majority of other children.

Surely you're intelligent enough to understand that the inclusion of all children benefits more than the autistic subset. We're talking about all sorts of developmental delays, the giant ADHD group, the dyslexics, dyscalculics, dysgraphics, the kids with impaired hearing or impaired sight, those in wheelchairs, the giant anxiety group, those with depression, bipolar disorders, and other psychiatric ailments. There are a kids with chronic physical diseases whose treatment needs perturb their education, there are kids with cancer, particularly around NIH, because their families have the right to enroll their kids in nearby MCPS schools while their child is being treated there. I knew of a child with a specific short-term memory issue. There are so many children with varying needs!!!

Please realize that special needs come in all sorts of future options: there are kids with mild special needs who will go on to be very traditionally successful; those with moderate needs that can be perfectly functional and independent as adults; and those that will never be independent but who can be socialized and taught to advocate for themselves in some measure to make their lives safer (always a critical issue with the latter cohort). The range of functionality and futures runs the gamut!

Educating these children is making sure they are not a burden, or as light a burden as possible, to YOUR children when they're all adults and paying taxes. You've got to stop being so short-sighted and selfish, PP.

I completely agree with you that the current system can be detrimental to certain kids if they're unlucky enough to be in the class with a habitual disrupter. My kids have been in those classes. But despite one of them having an IEP himself, my kids are both functional enough to power through and be successful no matter who is in their class. The burden they bear is NOTHING compared to the burden the disrupter bears.

I support efforts to change the system just enough that children and teachers can be protected and shielded from the worse behaviors of certain perturbed children - everyone in that situation deserves better, most of all, the perturbed child themselves!

But DO NOT imply that our society should stop including and helping the immense numbers of children with special needs. One of them might cure your cancer one day. They are not all cognitively impaired, you know. Some of them are very bright indeed. My husband has ADHD/Asperger's, he has an MD and a PhD and works in cancer research. I know what I'm talking about.

I strongly disagree that kids with anxiety or adhd benefit by having kids with autism or other highly disruptive or explosive behaviors in the classroom. On the contrary, they benefit from a calm and orderly environment with strong expectations. And absolutely nobody is talking about kids with hearing aids. They aren’t the ones stopping an entire generation of kids from learning.

Least restrictive environment doesn’t always equal the gen ed class though. So if you do have a child who is having these explosive behaviors in the classroom, well then maybe that’s a sign that the gen ed classroom isn’t the least restrictive environment for them. Right?

[Anonymous]

I volunteered in my child’s first grade class six years ago at a school that sounds identical to OP’s. There were 29 kids in the class, essentially a full time aide for the kids with diagnosed challenges, and it was STILL an unbelievably hot mess.

Kid throwing furniture, spitting all over the class, screaming, trying to leave, just general chaotic, disruptive behavior. The class was across the hall from the room that was designated for kids who have outbursts, and it was a nonstop revolving door of out-of-control kids from all over the school being dragged down the hall to that classroom.

We left after that year, went to private. Never intended to not go to our neighborhood FCPS school, but what a disaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

x1000

[Anonymous]

Is this a dress code?

[Anonymous]

Can you imagine being these teachers all day? I would lost my effing mind. God help them.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible to get an iep requiring a calm environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think our kids don’t tell us this stuff? We know.

What are you doing to help get troubled kids the help they need? (That the school frequently refuses to provide.)

I know that some of the parents don’t want to admit their kids may have any problems. One is a kid who the school has pushed to get tested and parents refuse. For another kid who is consistently violent and disruptive, I don’t know what can be done by the school beyond what’s been done. I’ve been to told to document.

Testing is very expensive, and often not covered by insurance. We do not qualify for low income programs, and still can't afford 4-6k in testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible to get an iep requiring a calm environment?

My kid has an accommodation for testing that requires a calm environment. They put him in the hallway for testing with all the other kids who require a calm environment for testing. Guess what's not actually calm? The hallway with all the others.

We've tried to turn this down and my DS asked his teacher to turn this down. They pull him into the hallway regardless.