Are women's standards higher now or is it just a myth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

Love how this has turned from are women's standards higher to now are men's standards higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

What with the superior qualities known to be hoarded by men who are ex-pats, you'd think this would bother American women, but no.

All the expats I know cheat on their wives. The foreigners can have them.

+1

If you actually know ex-pats you know that the ones serially dating local women (especially in the developing world) are men American women make fun of, not men women want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

[Anonymous]

History channel. Military channel. Any show about real world experience will have man power. Go to any toy store and there are male oriented things. Mendont play with words and dolls as much which is why there is a lesser market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

Which continent is that? Not Europe. I’ve always been overweight and career-oriented and had just as many men chasing me when I lived and traveled in Western Europe as I did in the US (a lot of men to be specific).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

In the past, women had to be all those things to attract a man. Otherwise, they couldn’t have a family and live a nice life. Now women make their own money and can have a nice life without a man. Women don’t need to hold their tongues (not always being kind, caring), can have opinions that differ from their partner, have higher priorities than being an object for men to look at (not longer need hot body, non frumpy appearance, or dieting), and have interesting work that engages their time and mind (can’t always be spontaneous, put energy to advance their careers). This is great for women. Sorry men don’t like it. Maybe you can start valuing women for traits others than appearance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think women for the last 30 years have had higher standards. I will add a big "BUT" to this. Many do not have realistic expectations. You can't demand a 10 if you are not one yourself. The same goes for men.

I am middle aged and witnessed a lot of my peers pass on good guys because they did not believe they were up to their standards in regards to looks and income. Those people are still single and unhappy.

I am just saying, it is good to gave standards but be real about it.

I think too many women expect to walk into a ready made life instead of realizing it takes time to get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Hold on. So women, who only recently got the right to work and to exist independently outside of a man, picked up the skill of multi-tasking through osmosis while men's ability to cope and do the same fell in the gutter? And their increased ability to function took away mens' ability to function due to a limited supply? Sure Jan.

I think this is pretty insulting to every woman who lived before 1960. What do you think the avg woman's life was like before reliable birth control and a washing machine. Yes, I think women, on average, have always been better at multitasking then men, on avg.

There’s “multitasking” and then there is literally fighting their way into careers that were closed to women as recently as mothers and grandmothers day, and somehow that is the less challenging task than learning to fold laundry? I think you’re doing a disservice to every woman who became a pilot, a diplomat, a judge, a surgeon in the last 40 years…

The average woman today will never become a pilot, a diplomat, a judge or a surgeon. But now it's also a hell of a lot harder for her to become a mother and wife.

What a bleak view of both sexes. Women can't become pilots (something they have done since at least WWI) and men are so mentally incapacitated that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because of those dang women.

Women pilots don’t have to be wives to become mothers. No point of being a wife to a man child if I am making $10k/flight, can afford any childcare and sleep with hot men in the cities I fly to. Why would I ? It would be a crazy idea to marry someone unequal or incapable and give him legal rights over my children, alimony and assets rights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I'm a youngish woman. I hear lots of younger guys complaining that women's standards are higher now than in past generations, but how would they even know? They weren't dating 20+ years ago. Is there any truth to this or do they just have grass is greener syndrome?

1) young women have more financial and social options than 20 years ago and many more than 40 years ago.
2)young men, as a group, have seen a decline in their financial and social status over the past two to four decades for a variety of reasons.

30-40 years ago, when these young men’s fathers were dating, most young women still faced heavy financial and social stressers to marry. They risked a lot by being “too picky” about things we would now consider pink flags in a potential mate. I know so many young women who have no fear of “ending up alone”. They have the ability to support themselves in a lifestyle they enjoy and they have rich and meaningful close relationships with friends and family. Many have been horrible marriages for older women who settled and they do fear that particular fate.

Some of the young men complaining about women’s standards bring to high will change and end up happily married. Others will refuse to change and marry women who feel they have no other prospects, like 90 days and counting. The rest will be angry incels whose behavior confirms the young women are better of rejecting them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Hold on. So women, who only recently got the right to work and to exist independently outside of a man, picked up the skill of multi-tasking through osmosis while men's ability to cope and do the same fell in the gutter? And their increased ability to function took away mens' ability to function due to a limited supply? Sure Jan.

I think this is pretty insulting to every woman who lived before 1960. What do you think the avg woman's life was like before reliable birth control and a washing machine. Yes, I think women, on average, have always been better at multitasking then men, on avg.

There’s “multitasking” and then there is literally fighting their way into careers that were closed to women as recently as mothers and grandmothers day, and somehow that is the less challenging task than learning to fold laundry? I think you’re doing a disservice to every woman who became a pilot, a diplomat, a judge, a surgeon in the last 40 years…

The average woman today will never become a pilot, a diplomat, a judge or a surgeon. But now it's also a hell of a lot harder for her to become a mother and wife.

What a bleak view of both sexes. Women can't become pilots (something they have done since at least WWI) and men are so mentally incapacitated that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because of those dang women.

Women pilots don’t have to be wives to become mothers. No point of being a wife to a man child if I am making $10k/flight, can afford any childcare and sleep with hot men in the cities I fly to. Why would I ? It would be a crazy idea to marry someone unequal or incapable and give him legal rights over my children, alimony and assets rights

Put your hypothetical child first in this scenario instead of yourself and see if you can come up with any reasons why this life plan is less than ideal. Seriously, just play out a typical work day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Hold on. So women, who only recently got the right to work and to exist independently outside of a man, picked up the skill of multi-tasking through osmosis while men's ability to cope and do the same fell in the gutter? And their increased ability to function took away mens' ability to function due to a limited supply? Sure Jan.

I think this is pretty insulting to every woman who lived before 1960. What do you think the avg woman's life was like before reliable birth control and a washing machine. Yes, I think women, on average, have always been better at multitasking then men, on avg.

There’s “multitasking” and then there is literally fighting their way into careers that were closed to women as recently as mothers and grandmothers day, and somehow that is the less challenging task than learning to fold laundry? I think you’re doing a disservice to every woman who became a pilot, a diplomat, a judge, a surgeon in the last 40 years…

The average woman today will never become a pilot, a diplomat, a judge or a surgeon. But now it's also a hell of a lot harder for her to become a mother and wife.

What a bleak view of both sexes. Women can't become pilots (something they have done since at least WWI) and men are so mentally incapacitated that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because of those dang women.

Women pilots don’t have to be wives to become mothers. No point of being a wife to a man child if I am making $10k/flight, can afford any childcare and sleep with hot men in the cities I fly to. Why would I ? It would be a crazy idea to marry someone unequal or incapable and give him legal rights over my children, alimony and assets rights

Put your hypothetical child first in this scenario instead of yourself and see if you can come up with any reasons why this life plan is less than ideal. Seriously, just play out a typical work day.

No problem: I would totally have a live-in nanny. Will still see my child the same amount of time as if I was married, and wouldn't have to finance and owe anything legally to dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.