Are women's standards higher now or is it just a myth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Hold on. So women, who only recently got the right to work and to exist independently outside of a man, picked up the skill of multi-tasking through osmosis while men's ability to cope and do the same fell in the gutter? And their increased ability to function took away mens' ability to function due to a limited supply? Sure Jan.

I think this is pretty insulting to every woman who lived before 1960. What do you think the avg woman's life was like before reliable birth control and a washing machine. Yes, I think women, on average, have always been better at multitasking then men, on avg.

There’s “multitasking” and then there is literally fighting their way into careers that were closed to women as recently as mothers and grandmothers day, and somehow that is the less challenging task than learning to fold laundry? I think you’re doing a disservice to every woman who became a pilot, a diplomat, a judge, a surgeon in the last 40 years…

The average woman today will never become a pilot, a diplomat, a judge or a surgeon. But now it's also a hell of a lot harder for her to become a mother and wife.

What a bleak view of both sexes. Women can't become pilots (something they have done since at least WWI) and men are so mentally incapacitated that they can't walk and chew gum at the same time because of those dang women.

Women pilots don’t have to be wives to become mothers. No point of being a wife to a man child if I am making $10k/flight, can afford any childcare and sleep with hot men in the cities I fly to. Why would I ? It would be a crazy idea to marry someone unequal or incapable and give him legal rights over my children, alimony and assets rights

Put your hypothetical child first in this scenario instead of yourself and see if you can come up with any reasons why this life plan is less than ideal. Seriously, just play out a typical work day.

No problem: I would totally have a live-in nanny. Will still see my child the same amount of time as if I was married, and wouldn't have to finance and owe anything legally to dad.

You're still only thinking about yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think women for the last 30 years have had higher standards. I will add a big "BUT" to this. Many do not have realistic expectations. You can't demand a 10 if you are not one yourself. The same goes for men.

I am middle aged and witnessed a lot of my peers pass on good guys because they did not believe they were up to their standards in regards to looks and income. Those people are still single and unhappy.

I am just saying, it is good to gave standards but be real about it.

I think too many women expect to walk into a ready made life instead of realizing it takes time to get there.

Lots of people are living in apartments starting out. What exactly do you mean by this?

[Anonymous]

Women don't HAVE to settle. We don't NEED a man. A good man is nice to have. But - key word being "good" - hard to find. Not interested in putting myself at the mercy of a man who may decide to cheat, leave, waste my money, whatever. Demand sex whether I want it or not, or he gets in a mood. Be grumpy and judgey about my weight or grey hair or whatever.

I'd love to have a relationship but not interested in the risks and baggage.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Women’s standards are higher. They expect their partners to be equal contributors to the mental load of a household, not just a man-child paycheck.

Just like we actually expect people not to be misogynistic, racist, or ableist anymore.

Just like we expect employers to have decent boundaries and not be emotionally abusive or expect people to “pay their dues” anymore.

I’m a young Gen-X woman and I went to lunch with some of my new Gen Z colleagues last week. These “kids” are more focused and principled than I was at their age. They are willing to work hard and often much more independently than 21-25 yr olds 10 years ago - but they have boundaries.

Higher standards are not a bad thing. As people in my generation get divorced, I’ve noticed a significant icyness or resentment from my friends’ Baby Boomer moms who put up with bad marriages and sacrificed themselves for the sake of their family - only to watch their daughters walk away and start over. I read recently that the reason baby boomers resent the Gen-X/Millenial “gentle parenting” isn’t because they view it as a rebuke to how they raised their kids - but because they are mourning how they were treated as children.

It’s hard to watch generational change sometimes. Young women today have it so much better and easier in some ways than I did 20ish years ago - but I think there are probably also new pressures and challenges that I don’t understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

That's my point. Girls mature faster, their frontal lobes develop sooner and they accrue goal oriented, exec functioning skills sooner. Earning eagle scout was a huge accomplishment for my husband, but now we view that accomplishment as less than because girls can do it faster than the boys? As if the speed of achievement is more critical than the process? The original title of this thread is whether women's standards are higher now. I think eagle scout achievement is proof that yes, women's standards are higher. We can do it faster and better, so just try to keep up, boys.

[Anonymous]

Women used to be forced into marriage. You couldn't get a mortgage or your own credit card as a single woman in the 70s! They would just say no.

So yeah, standards are different because women don't need men the same way.

If the men are whining I'd encourage them to BE BETTER and they'll find women flock to them. Be a better, equal partner. It's not all that hard.

[Anonymous]

As many have pointed out, women no longer need men. They are financially independent and are outpacing men in education. When women no longer need men to provide for them, you get left with continuing stark differences in emotional health/intelligence, where women have long had the upper hand. In some ways, it is probably largely still to do with how society continues to socialize young men and the lack of strong and emotionally open interpersonal relationships in men's lives. Women now demand than men are emotional equals as well, and they, for the most part, are not. I saw a video recently by a man that essentially said that now that women don't need men financially, it forces men to have to be likeable. And, well, here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

I’m glad it’s a positive experience for you, but the person I was quoting is complaining that a few girls are “changing the vibe” for her son as though the girls— and not the systemic issues that led BSA to admit women— are the issue. If you always are told that everything you don’t like isn’t fair to you because of “the girls” then yeah, her son is going to grow up a self-pitying misogynist and it will be her fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

A continent full?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Matchmakers (women) are quitting because single women have become completely unreasonable with their wish lists and high standards. The men are dating younger or are dating foreign women.

So, yes.

+1

American women have a captive audience. The vast majority of men never seek out women from other countries and it's 100% their fault. The difference in quality is night and day. I've yet to find an American male expat who prefers American women.

When I lived in Europe and met a newly arrived, single American woman out like at a networking event, all us jaded expats would start taking bets on how long she'd last. Few made it to the 6 month mark. They were so used to getting attention in the US, but the expat and local men preferred the local women for various reasons.

It’s the “various reasons” bits that are fascinating…

Probably reasons like:

Have class
Kind
Affectionate
Caring
Fun
Non frumpy appearance
Won't stuff face with entire large deep dish pizza
Spontaneous
Hot body
Not obsessed with career

American women used to have some of these qualities. The gap has widened considerably over the years. Why is it that literally a continent full of men will not touch american women?

Nobody is all that impressed with people who identify as ex-pats, men or women -- not in general. They tend not to be the achieving, got-it-together types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

I’m glad it’s a positive experience for you, but the person I was quoting is complaining that a few girls are “changing the vibe” for her son as though the girls— and not the systemic issues that led BSA to admit women— are the issue. If you always are told that everything you don’t like isn’t fair to you because of “the girls” then yeah, her son is going to grow up a self-pitying misogynist and it will be her fault.

I'm the mom you're calling a misogynist. It's not girl-hating to note that boys and girls behave differently in co-ed vs single-sex groups. There's a lot about manhood that can only be learned through positive male role models. If you think women can come in and show them how it should be done or how it should be done better, no wonder the men know they can never meet women's standards.

For the record, I went to all-girls schools for both high school and college and it was a gift to be able to grow physically, emotionally and intellectually without the presence of the opposite sex. Boys deserve to have those spaces too but they've all been taken away b/c if girls aren't allowed, then it must be patriarchal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

I’m glad it’s a positive experience for you, but the person I was quoting is complaining that a few girls are “changing the vibe” for her son as though the girls— and not the systemic issues that led BSA to admit women— are the issue. If you always are told that everything you don’t like isn’t fair to you because of “the girls” then yeah, her son is going to grow up a self-pitying misogynist and it will be her fault.

I'm the mom you're calling a misogynist. It's not girl-hating to note that boys and girls behave differently in co-ed vs single-sex groups. There's a lot about manhood that can only be learned through positive male role models. If you think women can come in and show them how it should be done or how it should be done better, no wonder the men know they can never meet women's standards.

For the record, I went to all-girls schools for both high school and college and it was a gift to be able to grow physically, emotionally and intellectually without the presence of the opposite sex. Boys deserve to have those spaces too but they've all been taken away b/c if girls aren't allowed, then it must be patriarchal.

It is girl hating to say the girls have “changed the vibe” and blame them for the boys not continuing in boyscouts. That’s either an organizational problem if BSA isn’t equipped to have good groups, or it’s a problem with the boys lacking grit and commitment, but blaming it on the presence of girls is just boring, run of the mill, misogyny. And it’s a horrid example for your son to teach him his failings should be blamed on girls out-performing him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe having to excel in two spheres (work and home) is easier for women, on avg, and harder for men, on avg. Combine that with the fact that women, on average, don't withhold sex until marriage, you're going to see an increasing number of males not striving to be the best version of themselves.

If the past 50 years can be considered a success for women, someone else is going to be less successful. Social and political revolutions always have knock on effects.

Financial independence is nothing to sneer at, but there are always going to be trade offs and making men less essential could very well mean that their incentives to fulfill our ideals as husband's as father's have been cratered.

Agree, there isn't much incentive today for males to strive to be the best version of themselves.

And what is the best version of manhood? As far as I can tell from this thread it's to be a good feminist. Do we raise our daughters with that sort of reverence and respect for the capabilities of men? My 8 year old son sees all of the girl power stuff my daughter has. There are no 'boy power' t-shirts and stickers.

Oh, FFS. You cannot be this dim. You sound like the people whining about the Black Entertainment Channel and its awards show. “Boo-hoo, where is the WHITE Entertainment Channel/Awards??? WAAAAH!!”

It’s every other damn channel, Chad.

Inventing a guy to get mad and getting mad at him

And believe it or not I'm a mom. Here's another example. My son's been in cub scouts. This year several girls joined the troop. They're lovely but the vibe has totally changed an d I dont see these boys sticking around for 4th grade. And don't tell me they should suck it up and make room for them. No one would ask that of my daughters girl scout troop bc a bunch of 8 yo boys running around would kill the vibe of those meetings too.

Or take the very structure of the typical school day. Is it better suited for the avg girl or the avg boy? What's it like to go into an environment day in and day out that feels stifling? This can apply to plenty of girls too but I'm taking about the population at large here. How does this play out at scale?

You all keep pointing to actual media channels and power players when what I'm saying is that the lives of young kids are structured in a way that views boys as defective girls. What kind of men will those boys become?

The organization you signed your son up to participate in abused young boys so systematically over so many years that it was facing extinction if girls weren’t allowed to join.

So yeah. What kind of men **will** these boys become that their parents register them to participate in organizations that abuse children and then blame the girls for its flaws? Sounds like the kind of men who will have learned— sadly from their mothers— misogyny very early.

The vibe has changed for the better at our troop although I will say the volunteering is tough for the girls. So many women volunteers needed that don't want to participate. The girls are way more put together and make eagle often 2 years before the boys.

I’m glad it’s a positive experience for you, but the person I was quoting is complaining that a few girls are “changing the vibe” for her son as though the girls— and not the systemic issues that led BSA to admit women— are the issue. If you always are told that everything you don’t like isn’t fair to you because of “the girls” then yeah, her son is going to grow up a self-pitying misogynist and it will be her fault.

I'm the mom you're calling a misogynist. It's not girl-hating to note that boys and girls behave differently in co-ed vs single-sex groups. There's a lot about manhood that can only be learned through positive male role models. If you think women can come in and show them how it should be done or how it should be done better, no wonder the men know they can never meet women's standards.

For the record, I went to all-girls schools for both high school and college and it was a gift to be able to grow physically, emotionally and intellectually without the presence of the opposite sex. Boys deserve to have those spaces too but they've all been taken away b/c if girls aren't allowed, then it must be patriarchal.

It is girl hating to say the girls have “changed the vibe” and blame them for the boys not continuing in boyscouts. That’s either an organizational problem if BSA isn’t equipped to have good groups, or it’s a problem with the boys lacking grit and commitment, but blaming it on the presence of girls is just boring, run of the mill, misogyny. And it’s a horrid example for your son to teach him his failings should be blamed on girls out-performing him.

I literally said right after that that boys coming into my daughter's girl scout group would change their vibe, too. I must just be a misanthrope who hates all of humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Social media changes everything. 70 years ago, you married the guy from your neighborhood or your secretary at work. Maybe you got a dumpy loser, but he had a job and your best friends’ husband were kind of dumpy too, anyway. Now you are exposed 24/7 to other women’s hot and rich and funny boyfriends on TikTok, but hey he is really sweet to her too! People think social media creates envy, but it really just elevates dating standards to incredible heights most average men will never meet. You see a TikTok SAHM (blonde, petite, with three adorable children and a huge house her cute husband’s salary pays for), but your Tinder date takes you to a hip coffee shop, let’s you buy your own drink, waxes poetic about his band and is “in between jobs”…

I think people don’t realize most of those TikTok / IG sahms are Mormon. I’m not Mormon, but I have a few Mormon mom friends and the stereotype I would make is that Mormon men are raised to prioritize marriage and family, including financially supporting a large family. The Mormon moms I know have incredibly strong social networks in the “it takes a village” model. Most east coast / mid Atlantic hipster white dudes may be ambitious and educated, but their ambition is more individual rather than focused on a family unit. Similarly, a lot of DMV area women move here for work and while they have friends who can help in an emergency that is nowhere near the support of being assigned a circle of women in your ward who will drive your kids to sports when your husband is traveling for work because you cleaned her house and brought dinner when she sprained her ankle.