Student Behavior - Starting to Fall Apart?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year, my DC had behavioral issues at school. Not aggression or violent, but disruptive, having trouble getting along with classmates, talking out of turn, ignoring the teacher, getting up and going to the bathroom without asking for permission, shutting down and refusing to do work when stressed out, etc. I got calls from the school counselor and assistant principal, emails from the teacher. DC has an IEP for specific learning disability and OHI (anxiety, ADHD). DC is also impulsive. I asked for an IEP meeting, We were concerned about what was happening, the behavior was very problematic.

At the IEP meeting, the school team minimized the problem. I told the school team if the behavior wasn't such a problem, how come we were getting calls and emails on a weekly basis, sometimes couple of times per week. I asked for a consultation with a behavioral intervention specialist. She did two short observations and said DC's behavior was appropriate. The school did not think the behavioral issue warranted a functional behavioral assessment. They added a few stupid goals in the IEP which didn't help. I continued to get calls and emails. We had rewards and consequences at home for school behavior. We were at a loss and can't figure out why the school refused to do a functional behavioral assessment even though there was documentation that the behavior adversely affected DC's education. After the IEP meeting, all of a sudden, no calls and emails regarding poor behavior but when I would proactively ask, they would list out a bunch of issues.

Fortunately, things are going well this year. however, we were desperate for help and couldn't get the school to do an assessment or behavioral plan. Why would the school identify a behavioral issue and then be so resistant to do a functional behavioral assessment or behavioral plan?

Simple. Because it was too much work for them. It was easier to not report to you after that meeting so you wouldn’t continue to insist on one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted about evacuating the class to the closet. These are not run of the mill behaviors that cause this. I've seen more serious behaviors over the last 10 years. A lot of kids have never heard the word "no" in their homes. Their homes are often chaotic and they don't have stable families. These kids have very reactive personalities. They explode about little things. There are many transitions that occur during a school day and they often can't deal with it. You can't just send them to the office. Sometimes they elope from the classroom and you have to text an admin to go get them. Other times, they start yelling and screaming and overturn furniture, throw school supplies, etc.

I have noticed the escalation too. In my observation technology plays a huge part. Many kids get violent when their preferred activity is not available or has ended (iPad) these are often the same kids who obsess over video games, talk about them all day. [/quote


+1. Here is a good example of what is happening in our society, and why the schools are a mess. Yet people will continue literally DESTROYING their kids' brains starting when they are babies. Every day I see babies in strollers watching videos on a phone or iPad. Is anyone really ignorant enough to believe that all of that technology isn't doing major damage? Technology is destroying our whole culture. It's not hyperbole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this an issue more in ES and MS?

Somewhat, although any small group or teamed MS teacher will tell you the students with the behavior needs take up the lion’s share of their time and the others in the class aren’t getting what they need because of it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even in kindergarten kids are rolling their eyes and talking back.

Lots of back talk and over the top reactions to not getting their way. I’d usually have one difficult student but now I have 4-5. It’s a lot and it makes most days feel like a marathon.

Me at work to my 4th graders: “You have a lot of attitude for someone who doesn’t know how to subtract.”

Umm... you have 4th graders that don't know how to subtract? That seems the larger issue here.

Not the PP but just STOP! Student behavior is a huge issue and it gets in the way of good teaching and learning. Unless you are in the classroom trying to put out 5-7 behavioral fires before lunch and again after-Just STOP!

Exactly!

My DD's 4th grade class has had to evacuate the classroom TWICE this week. Just let that sink in. Today is Wednesday - a holiday - and both Monday and Tuesday they were evacuated. Why? An unruly student. Same student both times. And when they evacuate, it's not for short periods of time, either. DD said on Monday it was almost 2 hours, and the email from the teacher on yesterday's incident said that the students went to Miss M.'s classroom during the duration while her class was out of the room at art class. On Monday the students were taken to the library after 30 minutes when it appeared that they weren't going to get the student calmed quickly. DD said they were told to read books quietly but she said most kids just talked about the incident and all the things the student threw around the classroom.

So, 2 hours on Monday without any constructive learning. Then once the student was out of the room and the room was restored, there was another short period where the teacher talked with the kids about the incident to calm any fears, so maybe another 30 minutes of instruction gone. By then she said they did their math unit and it was the end of the day. So Monday my kid's day was independent reading & journal time, history, PE, lunch, recess, science for a bit until the incident happened, library for 2 hours, and a shortened math unit before dismissal.

This is now the 5th disturbance in her classroom since the school year started. Unacceptable and I know lots of parents spent today emailing the principal about just how unacceptable it is.

I had to evacuate my class many times last year. I also had to re arrange furniture (climbing), hide things (throwing) and took risks using my computer, smart board, etc on a daily basis.

My whole class schedule had to be restructured and no normal things could be done well because of the constant support and 1:1 this one child needed. There are no other human bodies to help. It takes months to get any sort of IEP in place but you can’t do an IEP based on class behavior alone.

It was a very tiring year. And I had many other challenges on top of the main one.

Education really is brought down to the neediest. I don’t say that in a mean way but entire classes suffer because of one student because that’s just how the system is these days.

Would getting rid of the problem kids help? Absolutely. Some people with means will choose private due to this. It sucks for the rest of the normal kids in public school.

NP parent here. Yes, getting rid of them would help. My son was an average student who makes a great audience for anyone who wants to disrupt the class, especially when he was younger. His 3rd grade year was ruined by 2 disruptive kids who caused scenes requiring evacuation almost daily. Throwing books, flipping the teacher’s computer monitor to the ground, screeching nonstop, and trying to break windows and the terrarium were all reported frequently. My son gained nothing from 3rd grade.

We bit the bullet and sent him to parochial school after that. Even though it’s cheaper than most privates, it’s still expensive for us. Still, it’s worth it. He was bored at first because he was expected to do his work and there were no disruptions to be distracted by. Sure enough, he got used to it and started becoming quite a good student. It was absolutely worth it to get him out of an environment where everyone spent all their time and resources on a couple of unruly, behavioral problems. Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this an issue more in ES and MS?

Easier to skip class altogether in high school or just sit on your phone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SpEd law has ruined public schools, which must bow at the alter of IDEA and special education lawyers. If you’ve worked in a school, you know that it’s nearly impossible to get rid of students who destroy (many times literally) the learning environment for other students. When I was growing up, these students received an education in resource rooms, received lots of individual attention, and did not disrupt the academic and behavioral rigor of the general education classrooms. Mainstreaming/inclusion has so tarnished public education and it’s a damned shame.

This is also 100% accurate. We had to fight for my DS (who does not have an IEP) to not be in the inclusion room. Not because we don’t believe that all students deserve a chance, but because learning wasn’t happening.

We had this too, and it became common for the schools to “unofficially” fill the classes with kids with behavioral problems with the most academically advanced, well-behaved kids, I guess as an offset for level of perceived “needs” for the teacher to deal with? No thank you.

Both of my kids were put in the inclusion classes many times. One was a high performing stude t. The other was mediocre.

What they and the other mainstream kids seemed to have in common was that they were mostly the extremely kind, friendly types that were compassionate and inclusive type personalities.

It also seemed that most of the parents were not the kind who complained a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, my DC had behavioral issues at school. Not aggression or violent, but disruptive, having trouble getting along with classmates, talking out of turn, ignoring the teacher, getting up and going to the bathroom without asking for permission, shutting down and refusing to do work when stressed out, etc. I got calls from the school counselor and assistant principal, emails from the teacher. DC has an IEP for specific learning disability and OHI (anxiety, ADHD). DC is also impulsive. I asked for an IEP meeting, We were concerned about what was happening, the behavior was very problematic.

At the IEP meeting, the school team minimized the problem. I told the school team if the behavior wasn't such a problem, how come we were getting calls and emails on a weekly basis, sometimes couple of times per week. I asked for a consultation with a behavioral intervention specialist. She did two short observations and said DC's behavior was appropriate. The school did not think the behavioral issue warranted a functional behavioral assessment. They added a few stupid goals in the IEP which didn't help. I continued to get calls and emails. We had rewards and consequences at home for school behavior. We were at a loss and can't figure out why the school refused to do a functional behavioral assessment even though there was documentation that the behavior adversely affected DC's education. After the IEP meeting, all of a sudden, no calls and emails regarding poor behavior but when I would proactively ask, they would list out a bunch of issues.

Fortunately, things are going well this year. however, we were desperate for help and couldn't get the school to do an assessment or behavioral plan. Why would the school identify a behavioral issue and then be so resistant to do a functional behavioral assessment or behavioral plan?

Simple. Because it was too much work for them. It was easier to not report to you after that meeting so you wouldn’t continue to insist on one.

they are understaffed I'm willing to bet everyone was at their max

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, my DC had behavioral issues at school. Not aggression or violent, but disruptive, having trouble getting along with classmates, talking out of turn, ignoring the teacher, getting up and going to the bathroom without asking for permission, shutting down and refusing to do work when stressed out, etc. I got calls from the school counselor and assistant principal, emails from the teacher. DC has an IEP for specific learning disability and OHI (anxiety, ADHD). DC is also impulsive. I asked for an IEP meeting, We were concerned about what was happening, the behavior was very problematic.

At the IEP meeting, the school team minimized the problem. I told the school team if the behavior wasn't such a problem, how come we were getting calls and emails on a weekly basis, sometimes couple of times per week. I asked for a consultation with a behavioral intervention specialist. She did two short observations and said DC's behavior was appropriate. The school did not think the behavioral issue warranted a functional behavioral assessment. They added a few stupid goals in the IEP which didn't help. I continued to get calls and emails. We had rewards and consequences at home for school behavior. We were at a loss and can't figure out why the school refused to do a functional behavioral assessment even though there was documentation that the behavior adversely affected DC's education. After the IEP meeting, all of a sudden, no calls and emails regarding poor behavior but when I would proactively ask, they would list out a bunch of issues.

Fortunately, things are going well this year. however, we were desperate for help and couldn't get the school to do an assessment or behavioral plan. Why would the school identify a behavioral issue and then be so resistant to do a functional behavioral assessment or behavioral plan?

Simple. Because it was too much work for them. It was easier to not report to you after that meeting so you wouldn’t continue to insist on one.

they are understaffed I'm willing to bet everyone was at their max

This. In addition, there were several behaviors of concern but none that were severe enough to warrant a potential change in placement. Doing a FBA in a case like that is a ton of extra work and data collection and at the end of the day there aren’t enough staff to ensure a plan could be carried out with fidelity in a regular classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, my DC had behavioral issues at school. Not aggression or violent, but disruptive, having trouble getting along with classmates, talking out of turn, ignoring the teacher, getting up and going to the bathroom without asking for permission, shutting down and refusing to do work when stressed out, etc. I got calls from the school counselor and assistant principal, emails from the teacher. DC has an IEP for specific learning disability and OHI (anxiety, ADHD). DC is also impulsive. I asked for an IEP meeting, We were concerned about what was happening, the behavior was very problematic.

At the IEP meeting, the school team minimized the problem. I told the school team if the behavior wasn't such a problem, how come we were getting calls and emails on a weekly basis, sometimes couple of times per week. I asked for a consultation with a behavioral intervention specialist. She did two short observations and said DC's behavior was appropriate. The school did not think the behavioral issue warranted a functional behavioral assessment. They added a few stupid goals in the IEP which didn't help. I continued to get calls and emails. We had rewards and consequences at home for school behavior. We were at a loss and can't figure out why the school refused to do a functional behavioral assessment even though there was documentation that the behavior adversely affected DC's education. After the IEP meeting, all of a sudden, no calls and emails regarding poor behavior but when I would proactively ask, they would list out a bunch of issues.

Fortunately, things are going well this year. however, we were desperate for help and couldn't get the school to do an assessment or behavioral plan. Why would the school identify a behavioral issue and then be so resistant to do a functional behavioral assessment or behavioral plan?

Simple. Because it was too much work for them. It was easier to not report to you after that meeting so you wouldn’t continue to insist on one.

they are understaffed I'm willing to bet everyone was at their max

This. In addition, there were several behaviors of concern but none that were severe enough to warrant a potential change in placement. Doing a FBA in a case like that is a ton of extra work and data collection and at the end of the day there aren’t enough staff to ensure a plan could be carried out with fidelity in a regular classroom.

If the FBA primarily to justify a change in placement or is the goal to reduce the behaviors that is adversely affecting the education of the student and other peers being affected by the student's behavior?

[Anonymous]

The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

This. As a first grader, my son didn't have recess until 2 PM, and lunch was at 1:30. So 6 year olds had to sit in the classroom for 5 HOURS before they could run around for 20-30 minutes?! Of course they have the wiggles and get up, misbehave, etc.

We're a dual working parent family, so I get why the day is long to accommodate working families, but the scheduling of the day is ridiculous and inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Freshmen are starting to vandalize bathrooms again. Things like stealing toilet paper dispensers and pulling out all of paper towels.

My upper classman caught a bunch of them in the act and read them the riot act.

Any juniors or seniors who lived through the freshmen destroying the school last year in the name of tiktok have zero patience for this crap again this year. I have spoken with several other parents whose kids have yelled at freshmen the past two weeks trying to start this stuff again. The high school has started locking all or most of the bathrooms again this week.

It is like the walk out last week unleashed all of the bad behavior.

Before the walk out, the freshmen did not seem to be aware of all the freedom they have at high school.

Which school was this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshmen are starting to vandalize bathrooms again. Things like stealing toilet paper dispensers and pulling out all of paper towels.

My upper classman caught a bunch of them in the act and read them the riot act.

Any juniors or seniors who lived through the freshmen destroying the school last year in the name of tiktok have zero patience for this crap again this year. I have spoken with several other parents whose kids have yelled at freshmen the past two weeks trying to start this stuff again. The high school has started locking all or most of the bathrooms again this week.

It is like the walk out last week unleashed all of the bad behavior.

Before the walk out, the freshmen did not seem to be aware of all the freedom they have at high school.

Which school was this?

Not outing the school, but it is one where most of the bathrooms are locked. Which really could be any high school in fcps. At least one of the fcps high schools (not ours) is requiring the kids to download a tracking app onto their phones in order to use the bathrooms during the school day. In my opinion, that is a huge invasion of privacy. My kid would not be allowed to put a school tracking app on our personal devices.

The bathrooms were all unlocked before the stupid tiktok destruction last fall. Some of our school bathrooms still have not replaced the missing stall doors, paper towel dispensers and toilet paper holders that were destroyed last year. Combined with all the vaping, I doubt the bathrooms are ever going to open like they were prior to pandemic. I think the school keeps a handful of bathrooms open near the cafeteria and offices, and patrols them frequently.

My kid and other upperclassmen were hoping that the bathrooms were going to get back to normal soon. Then, the week of the walkout, the freshmen started the vandalism again. I think that is why upperclassmen are stepping in. They want their bathrooms back. I hope that the older kids telling freshmen to knock it off will nip this in the bud soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school day, and the school year, is too long. School should run end of September through early May. The school day for k-12 should be five hours long.

Quality of time over quantity of time. Saying you sat there for 7 hours just to sit there for 7 hours means nothing. Make the time count. I am not surprised students are burning out in October.

Agree....we try to fit way too much into a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshmen are starting to vandalize bathrooms again. Things like stealing toilet paper dispensers and pulling out all of paper towels.

My upper classman caught a bunch of them in the act and read them the riot act.

Any juniors or seniors who lived through the freshmen destroying the school last year in the name of tiktok have zero patience for this crap again this year. I have spoken with several other parents whose kids have yelled at freshmen the past two weeks trying to start this stuff again. The high school has started locking all or most of the bathrooms again this week.

It is like the walk out last week unleashed all of the bad behavior.

Before the walk out, the freshmen did not seem to be aware of all the freedom they have at high school.

Which school was this?

Not outing the school, but it is one where most of the bathrooms are locked. Which really could be any high school in fcps. At least one of the fcps high schools (not ours) is requiring the kids to download a tracking app onto their phones in order to use the bathrooms during the school day. In my opinion, that is a huge invasion of privacy. My kid would not be allowed to put a school tracking app on our personal devices.

The bathrooms were all unlocked before the stupid tiktok destruction last fall. Some of our school bathrooms still have not replaced the missing stall doors, paper towel dispensers and toilet paper holders that were destroyed last year. Combined with all the vaping, I doubt the bathrooms are ever going to open like they were prior to pandemic. I think the school keeps a handful of bathrooms open near the cafeteria and offices, and patrols them frequently.

My kid and other upperclassmen were hoping that the bathrooms were going to get back to normal soon. Then, the week of the walkout, the freshmen started the vandalism again. I think that is why upperclassmen are stepping in. They want their bathrooms back. I hope that the older kids telling freshmen to knock it off will nip this in the bud soon.

This would be a no for me as a parent