$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

This. OP needs to grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finish it out OP. 80k won’t mean very much in 10 years. You’re clearly qualified enough to get a job at a big tech firm — meaning your earning potential will outstrip that 80k very soon. Part of that earning potential could very well depend on that Ivy degree. I’ve found job interviews significantly easier with a degree on my resume.

Your bigger issue is your misery, but 3 semesters is not very long in the grand scheme of things. Please try to take classes that you want to take (art, literature, film — whatever calls to you!). If your parents are no longer paying, that should alleviate guilt about taking what you want at school and doing what you want to do. After school, try to pay off those loans as soon as you can. A boring job is not the end of the work. A boring job can enable you to do things you enjoy doing outside of work. Focus on the happy in your life, and best of luck.

OP here. I thought this too when I took my internship this summer in tech sales at a FAANG. It turns out that having a job I hate also affects my happiness outside of work -- being miserable at my job makes me unable to rest, sleep, or be happy in my waking hours outside of work. Also, if I take out $80k in loans, I'll have to work way more than 40 hrs/week to pay it off -- leaving me with little to no free time post-grad.

If I didn't have the threat of loans hanging over my head (and currently, I don't have any student loans in my name at all; I would have to take them out for my last 3 semesters at Columbia), I'd go into a low-paying but meaningful job in either publishing or environmental education. Hating a 40 hr/week job, to me, is like hating almost all of your waking hours, so I think I'm fine going to a cheaper, less prestigious school and taking on less debt so I can pursue something that makes me genuinely happy instead of hating myself at FAANG or MBB or BB IB or law school.

You can target lower comp than FAANG sale, project manager at cap1 for example, pays 90k at 3-5 year exp and you work from home for 25hr/week in their back office function (risk and ops).
Low paying job isn’t automatically meaningful. Plenty of low paying jobs have harassment, bad work environment and toxic losers who prey on minority women.
Startups also look for office managers (jack of all trades), you will do a touch of marketing, HR and product. You make around 60k but it’s enough to pay off your debt and live in the Shenandoah.
If you wait until 24 and do smith, your job prospects are going to be similar except you will be 27 and your colleagues will be 23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're asking the wrong question.

"$80k in Debt Worth It for Misery?"

No.

+1 I'm Asian, and I would not advise this if you are going to be completely miserable.

My kid wants to go to CMU for CS. I think $80K loan at CMU is worth it for CS if DC wants to be there. A CS degree from that school would pay for the $80K loan pretty easily.

Would I want DC to get an $80K loan in CS at NYU? Nope.

I'm so sorry OP for what you are going through.

CS from NYU is perfectly fine, my brother did this, found a software engineer job with a medical company at 68k, hopped to Microsoft after 2 years, hopped to fintech after 4 years at 350k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you mention an interest in the Seven Sisters schools. I’m curious to know if you’ve looked into either attending Barnard or taking all, or most of your coursework at Barnard to complete your degree. That would give you a Seven Sister school environment, and, because it’s part of Columbia University, it might be easier to get credit for the coursework you’ve already completed—compared to other schools.

As to your “parting words”, you’re making quite a few over- generalizations. You also seem startlingly certain that you’ll both get accepted by a Seven Sisters school, and get a scholarship that will allow you to attend “for free”. I wish you luck with that. I also hope you have thought through a few backup plans, in case your ideal plan doesn’t work out in ways that meet your expectations.

This is good advice

[Anonymous]

OP - you are being overly dramatic. 75% of the kids at Columbia are the way you describe - preprofessional, Wall Street or Law school obsessed but 25% are not. You need to make an effort to find your people there. Also, many Barnard students are idealistic and humanities focused. Take some classes at Barnard and try to make friends with Barnard students. I went to Columbia but never got on the Wall Street bandwagon. I majored in Chemistry and did a PhD at a different school. I feel broke compared to a lot of my Columbia finance friends but I love what I do and I’m grateful for the education and experience Columbia provided me. By the way, I had 45k in loans when I graduated Columbia 10-12 years ago. Don’t regret it at all.

[Anonymous]

You do you Op but own it. Make your own decisions and take responsibility.
I get the feeling Columbia is not responsible for your unhappiness. You are using it as a scapegoat. Work on your inner turmoil through therapy and antidepressant medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you mention an interest in the Seven Sisters schools. I’m curious to know if you’ve looked into either attending Barnard or taking all, or most of your coursework at Barnard to complete your degree. That would give you a Seven Sister school environment, and, because it’s part of Columbia University, it might be easier to get credit for the coursework you’ve already completed—compared to other schools.

As to your “parting words”, you’re making quite a few over- generalizations. You also seem startlingly certain that you’ll both get accepted by a Seven Sisters school, and get a scholarship that will allow you to attend “for free”. I wish you luck with that. I also hope you have thought through a few backup plans, in case your ideal plan doesn’t work out in ways that meet your expectations.

OP here. I've checked out the Barnard thing, but unfortunately it's not a possibility for me -- almost all of my classes are at Columbia. And my parents have already told me upfront that they would never pay money for me to go from Columbia to Barnard.

I understand that my chances of getting accepted by a Seven Sisters school is not as high as I previously phrased it to be. In case I get rejected, I'm planning on entering my state school (I'm from California, so they're excellent) at 24 (so I'd be considered a financial independent).

God, I wish I could meet you in-person so I could shake some sense into you. Leaving Columbia to go back to a UC or Mount Holyoke or whatever at 24 is an awful decision. If ungrateful, lazy idiots like you are the ones who are populating the Ivies, I'll make sure to note as a hiring manager to avoid hiring from them.

OP, you're a pathetic, lazy POS. One of these days, the consequences of your immaturity will catch up to you.

JFC people are being so awful on this post - even accounting for the usual sh!ttiness that is DCUM.

OP - ignore the haters, they really are jealous. But I will say - as a graduate of a seven sisters school - you actually might do well to go there. What is clear to me from your post is you need a lot of help developing your core character and who you are. Your parents did not nurture your sense of self and confidence and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is more important than any Ivy degree. I have worked at a few prestigious places (mostly biglaw though, so take that for what it’s worth) and yes there are many Ivy grads but there are many from below the ivies and what really, really matters is common sense, hard work and confidence. You need to work on these things (maybe not the hard work part, but you need to find a way to work hard that is not toxic to your mental health). You are wise to recognize you need time - life is not a race - so take the time.

An environment like a seven sisters school really may suit you. They really can be more supportive and more confidence building - of course, everyone’s experience will vary. But you need to be hyper sensitive to your own flaws and weaknesses - acknowledge them - and work to fix them in a way that is forgiving and loving to yourself. Which your parents really, really don’t get. So avoid their advice.

Good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you mention an interest in the Seven Sisters schools. I’m curious to know if you’ve looked into either attending Barnard or taking all, or most of your coursework at Barnard to complete your degree. That would give you a Seven Sister school environment, and, because it’s part of Columbia University, it might be easier to get credit for the coursework you’ve already completed—compared to other schools.

As to your “parting words”, you’re making quite a few over- generalizations. You also seem startlingly certain that you’ll both get accepted by a Seven Sisters school, and get a scholarship that will allow you to attend “for free”. I wish you luck with that. I also hope you have thought through a few backup plans, in case your ideal plan doesn’t work out in ways that meet your expectations.

OP here. I've checked out the Barnard thing, but unfortunately it's not a possibility for me -- almost all of my classes are at Columbia. And my parents have already told me upfront that they would never pay money for me to go from Columbia to Barnard.

I understand that my chances of getting accepted by a Seven Sisters school is not as high as I previously phrased it to be. In case I get rejected, I'm planning on entering my state school (I'm from California, so they're excellent) at 24 (so I'd be considered a financial independent).

God, I wish I could meet you in-person so I could shake some sense into you. Leaving Columbia to go back to a UC or Mount Holyoke or whatever at 24 is an awful decision. If ungrateful, lazy idiots like you are the ones who are populating the Ivies, I'll make sure to note as a hiring manager to avoid hiring from them.

OP, you're a pathetic, lazy POS. One of these days, the consequences of your immaturity will catch up to you.

JFC people are being so awful on this post - even accounting for the usual sh!ttiness that is DCUM.

OP - ignore the haters, they really are jealous. But I will say - as a graduate of a seven sisters school - you actually might do well to go there. What is clear to me from your post is you need a lot of help developing your core character and who you are. Your parents did not nurture your sense of self and confidence and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is more important than any Ivy degree. I have worked at a few prestigious places (mostly biglaw though, so take that for what it’s worth) and yes there are many Ivy grads but there are many from below the ivies and what really, really matters is common sense, hard work and confidence. You need to work on these things (maybe not the hard work part, but you need to find a way to work hard that is not toxic to your mental health). You are wise to recognize you need time - life is not a race - so take the time.

An environment like a seven sisters school really may suit you. They really can be more supportive and more confidence building - of course, everyone’s experience will vary. But you need to be hyper sensitive to your own flaws and weaknesses - acknowledge them - and work to fix them in a way that is forgiving and loving to yourself. Which your parents really, really don’t get. So avoid their advice.

Good luck

OP here. Thank you for your kind words. I think I'll bookmark your comment when I (inevitably) have my doubts about what I'm doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finish it out OP. 80k won’t mean very much in 10 years. You’re clearly qualified enough to get a job at a big tech firm — meaning your earning potential will outstrip that 80k very soon. Part of that earning potential could very well depend on that Ivy degree. I’ve found job interviews significantly easier with a degree on my resume.

Your bigger issue is your misery, but 3 semesters is not very long in the grand scheme of things. Please try to take classes that you want to take (art, literature, film — whatever calls to you!). If your parents are no longer paying, that should alleviate guilt about taking what you want at school and doing what you want to do. After school, try to pay off those loans as soon as you can. A boring job is not the end of the work. A boring job can enable you to do things you enjoy doing outside of work. Focus on the happy in your life, and best of luck.

OP here. I thought this too when I took my internship this summer in tech sales at a FAANG. It turns out that having a job I hate also affects my happiness outside of work -- being miserable at my job makes me unable to rest, sleep, or be happy in my waking hours outside of work. Also, if I take out $80k in loans, I'll have to work way more than 40 hrs/week to pay it off -- leaving me with little to no free time post-grad.

If I didn't have the threat of loans hanging over my head (and currently, I don't have any student loans in my name at all; I would have to take them out for my last 3 semesters at Columbia), I'd go into a low-paying but meaningful job in either publishing or environmental education. Hating a 40 hr/week job, to me, is like hating almost all of your waking hours, so I think I'm fine going to a cheaper, less prestigious school and taking on less debt so I can pursue something that makes me genuinely happy instead of hating myself at FAANG or MBB or BB IB or law school.

You can target lower comp than FAANG sale, project manager at cap1 for example, pays 90k at 3-5 year exp and you work from home for 25hr/week in their back office function (risk and ops).
Low paying job isn’t automatically meaningful. Plenty of low paying jobs have harassment, bad work environment and toxic losers who prey on minority women.
Startups also look for office managers (jack of all trades), you will do a touch of marketing, HR and product. You make around 60k but it’s enough to pay off your debt and live in the Shenandoah.
If you wait until 24 and do smith, your job prospects are going to be similar except you will be 27 and your colleagues will be 23.

OP here. I realize the downfalls of that, but for me, I think I really need that extra time. I am so burnt out and mentally ill that the benefits of starting a career at 26 outweigh the negatives for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?

OP here. Again, I have no desire to go into the kind of high-pressure, competitive jobs that pay $100k to a recent college grad.

I'm interested in publishing, arts administration, non-profit work, and environmental education. Not exactly fields that Columbia undergrads are known to go into (seriously, it seems like everyone around me is gunning for FAANG, BB IB, MBB, or law/med school).

Wishing you well Op. just be aware that the fields you mentioned, especially the first two, are very hard to get into and jobs often go to rich, well- connected kids through no merit of their own. You sound like an idealist and I can see why Columbia is a poor fit.

OP sounds like an idiot.

OP, listen to me. Careers like publishing, arts administration, NPO work, and "environmental education" (whatever the hell that is) are for rich kids whose parents can bankroll their living expenses after graduation and pay for a downpayment on their first house. That's obviously not you. Suck it up and stay at Columbia, no matter how bad it is for your "mental health." Then get out and CRUSH IT in finance/consulting/tech so you can build the generational wealth for your kids that you parents so clearly failed to provide.

This. OP needs to grow up.

I can't put too much faith in this comment when PP literally has quotes around the phrase mental health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do you Op but own it. Make your own decisions and take responsibility.
I get the feeling Columbia is not responsible for your unhappiness. You are using it as a scapegoat. Work on your inner turmoil through therapy and antidepressant medication.

You're right that Columbia isn't responsible for my unhappiness right now, but taking out $80k in loans for an environment far too competitive and cutthroat for my tastes isn't exactly leading me to self-fulfillment either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. My last parting words are that I think commenters here are having a hard time grasping how $80k in loans (and this would be mainly borrowed from predatory lenders like Sallie Mae or Discovery) would handicap me post-grad. I would basically have to take a high-paying career after graduation to chip away at the principle.

I think DCUM posters generally value things like money, prestige, and status much more than I do (and IMO this is part of the reason why I'm so unhappy at Columbia). I personally value doing something fulfilling even if it's not high-paying, and graduating debt-free is not conducive to that. So maybe I'll go to a Seven Sisters for free and have less opportunities than if I stayed at Columbia. But which employers are more likely to value a Columbia degree way more than a SLAC or state school degree? Probably a high-pressure, competitive, status-driven employer in finance, tech, or consulting that I'll have no desire to work for.

Peace. I realize my mentality is at odds with the social-climbing nature of the DMV. It's taken me months of therapy to get to this conclusion, but I'm glad I got to it before taking out a life-changing amount of student debt.

No,OP. We aren’t having a hard time grasping anything. You come off here as a spoiled brat who can’t find anything you want to do because no one has ever told you that WORK can be unpleasant. You are t happy anywhere … so you blame your parents. You didn’t like Ivy League. You hate your job, etc. I’m kind of baffled why you think you are supposed to be running in the fields throwing up flowers at any if these experiences. And so you blame your parents. They are simply trying to help you finish your degree. No you can’t take out that money on your own they must co-sign but they are willing to. I can’t tell you how many families I know who cant even offer that. Do you realize done grad students, law, med and dental have $400 k+ in loans to pay off? And here you are complaining about $80 co-signed by your parents. I struggled as a first ten through Harvard law school. I clerked for two years for a miserable $24k a year. I worked at soul sucking law firms to pay it off and was still paying off both college and law school at age 37 but I was grateful for every door that Harvard opened for me. And grateful that I didn’t have to saddled my middle class parents with my educational debt. I do think, as others have said, that you need intensive therapy to get over the hatred you have for your parents. They wanted only to give you what they did not have. While in therapy talk to your Ivy about taking community colleges credits to try and finish out your degree. Most will accommodate

+1000

OP, you're a spoiled ingrate and I can start to understand why your parents told you that they wished you succeeded in your suicide attempt. Working freaking sucks regardless of your job -- even if it's at a nice little NPO or in a publishing house or whatever artsy self-indulgent shit you want to do post-grad.

You're delusional. Suck it up, take the $80k out to finish at Columbia (an amazing school that most people would kill to get into!), and take whatever soul-sucking job you can to pay off those loans. Who gives a shit if your 20s suck because you're working 80 hour weeks at McKinsey or Goldman Sachs to pay your loans off? You have an opportunity most people would dream of.

BTW, if you were my kid, I wouldn't pay for your college at all. You are WAY too immature, bratty, ungrateful, and lazy to take advantage of college.

WTF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do you Op but own it. Make your own decisions and take responsibility.
I get the feeling Columbia is not responsible for your unhappiness. You are using it as a scapegoat. Work on your inner turmoil through therapy and antidepressant medication.

You're right that Columbia isn't responsible for my unhappiness right now, but taking out $80k in loans for an environment far too competitive and cutthroat for my tastes isn't exactly leading me to self-fulfillment either.

PP was really unhelpful. Sheesh lady.

OP, a miserable job or major or environment can absolutely be depressing. Sure, you may have had a predisposition, but if your school or major makes you miserable, follow your gut. Make a change. I'm sure your parents interjecting is just causing additional confusion and angst that most students don't deal with.

[Anonymous]

The posters here who are criticizing- or even suggesting that the OP’s parents would be happy is she successfully suicided are vile. OP is depressed - clinically depressed - and calling her lazy or selfish or other horrible things just shows how little most people understand about mental health.

OP - get healthy first - you are in no state to make life altering decisions. Find a mentor who has your best interests at heart and take some time to get in a good mental place before making these decisions. In the meantime- refine exactly what you want to do. If you really want to work at a nonprofit do some volunteering and see where it leads you. I wish you well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not take on 80k for your misery just to appease your parents. Do you currently have access to counseling services through your school? Even a few sessions might be able to help you make a plan to move forward. Do you have any friends or other contacts who you might be able to talk to about your situation?

I work in college access. If you were one of my students, I would encourage you to at least take a leave for a semester so you can figure out what you want to do. Don't take out these loans under pressure. Get a place with roommates, get a regular people job, start exploring your options. Check out your state school options. You really don't want to get locked into a situation where you have to work at a job you hate and in which you feel like a failure just to pay loans that you didn't want to take in the first place!

I hate to tell you, as a state school graduate, not only I have to work a job that I hate, for subsequent job hops, I can only be considered for jobs similar to what I have done before.
Such rule do not apply to Ivy kids, hate finance? they run to endowment investor relations. Hate accounting? they do business dev with wealth management firms. Hate their hedge fun job? Some lobbyist firm will take them right in.
The competition is cut throat for us for life. and people are more brutal. If you are ivy, your managers don't want to steamroll you because they expect you to be high up in another organization later on. They will take out their anger on us instead.

I really hate to say this, OP, but this poster is correct.

My DD graduated from a no-name college, but then went to a prestigious grad program. She tried looking for a job with her no-name degree and got NOWHERE. Nada. She spent two years at the prestigious grad school, and presto changeo, she got a dozen job offers. Same smart kid, but that degree opened doors. Prestige matters in the job market, I hate to say it.

I understand how much you hate your college I went to an Ivy and I hated it too. The hyper-competitive kids made me sick. All they wanted to do was go to law/med/business/tech and make loads of $$$. They had no interest in learning, just in achieving!! Status was everything to them (I know this is ironic, as I'm pushing status in this post!) and they did everything they could, short of eating babies, to get where they wanted to go. It made me sick to go to college with these types, even though I made a small group of friends there who thought as I do.

But you live in a real world where an Ivy degree is helpful. I left for a year, then came back and finished, even though I loathed the school, the other kids, even most of the professors. It did not suit me at all!!!

Sad to say, for me, and for DD, a prestigious degree is helpful in your career. Idiots who do the hiring LOVE those fancy degrees. Smile, and look past them to the interesting job you'll get.

I'm so sorry your parents aren't supportive. We don't choose our parents, and it hurts when they don't get us. But don't let your parents ruin your life!! You have talents that they don't value.

My DS majored in theater. He found a job almost immediately after graduating and makes a decent salary doing marketing for a well-known company. Humanities majors are great!! Companies who recognize their flexibility and ability to think value kids who major in humanities. You don't have to work in CS or any other STEM field if you don't want to, and yes, you can be very successful with a humanities degree from an Ivy.

BTW, do you go to Dartmouth? My best friend went there and transferred to my Ivy. She loathed it beyond all imagining. She didn't love my Ivy, but it was better at least than Dartmouth.