$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP of this post:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/240/1032099.page

and I'm back with an update. For a TL;DR of the thread, feel free to read pages 1, 4, 17, and 18. But here's a short summary:

I have Asian immigrant tiger parents who pushed me for my entire life. My childhood was a miserable series of relentless drilling, pushing, and yelling until I achieved to their standards. Their tiger parenting worked, and I graduated high school in 2019 and got accepted to an Ivy League college with a significant amount of financial aid.

This college is an AWFUL fit for me. The intense, competitive, cutthroat, and pre-professional nature of the school as well as the college's notoriously extensive graduation requirements and lack of any sense of supportive, nurturing community (if you're familiar with the Ivies it's probably easy to guess which college I go to) made me miserable while I was at college. I was at my school for five semesters (Sept 2019 to December 2021) until I was forced involuntarily by my school to take a leave of absence this past January for suicidal ideation.

My parents consistently remind me of how worthless I am. This is because I am AWFUL at all STEM and it seems like every single remotely lucrative career requires lots of STEM. I know this is the excuse everyone gives, but I started out at my school as a Bio major with pre-med intentions and was quickly weeded out despite working very hard. I quickly pivoted to CS/Econ, but despite also working very hard, I had to drop my CS class because I was at risk of failing. I also ended up with a C in Intro to Econ despite studying a ton and regularly going to office hours (I know, I’m a pathetic failure). I'm currently in a humanities major that I feel a lot of shame about. I’ve thought about going to law school, but when I look at law school curriculums and what lawyers actually do, it seems incredibly boring.

To try to redeem myself, I applied to over 100 internships for Summer 2022. I landed an internship in Saas Sales at a FAANG company for this summer. I'm seven weeks into my internship, and I'm positively miserable. I am NOT suited to tech sales at all whatsoever, and I can't imagine any glimpse of joy for my future if I were to do this full-time after graduation.

To make things worse, my college emailed me last month saying that I "no longer qualify for need-based financial aid" since my parents' income went up recently. There is no way in hell that my parents can afford to pay the full $40k/semester for my three remaining semesters of college, so they want me to take out $80k in loans to help them pay for school.

I screamed at my parents because of this demand. $80k in loans, IMO, is an insane amount to take out for a bachelor's degree (even if the degree is from a very prestigious school). My parents want me to take out the $80k all in my name (they're willing to co-sign onto private loans after the FAFSA loans are maxxed out). I suggested to my parents that they should take out at least some of that $80k in their name through either Parent Plus Loans or a HELOC, but my parents refused (I understand why, since we were a pretty low/medium-income family until I got to high school).

I personally don't think it's worth it to take out $80k in loans to get a BA in the humanities from a school I despise so much that I was forced to take a leave of absence due to severe depression. My parents, being the Asian immigrants that they are, view a BA from an elite school as an invaluable asset to my future. I told my parents that I'd rather drop out and transfer to another school than take out $80k in loans from a college I wouldn't even want to continue attending even if it were free. My parents keep threatening to cut off all financial support for me (kick me out of the house, cut me off their phone plan and health insurance, etc.) if I don't take out the $80k to finish at my current school.

I wanted to get this board's opinion on this, since DCUM seems equally anti-student debt and very insistent on undergrad prestige. My plan right now is to resist my parents and (inevitably) get kicked out of their house since I don't want to take out this much in student loans. Ideally, in a few years (after lots of therapy), I'd transfer to a cheaper college I can fund myself -- I heard some of the Seven Sisters (ie: Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, Smith) have fully-funded scholarships for older transfer students.

I don't know. Everything seems so bleak and tiring. I'm in therapy right now, but therapy doesn't change my material conditions. I'm at a crossroads and my future seems awful.

[Anonymous]

There's hope, OP.

I did poorly a bunch of classes at a very prestigious school in the first semester and left. Was miserable.

Got roommates after I dropped out and a series of office temp jobs making 12 bucks an hour. Eventually got a job offer, found a mentor, and got promoted to a management role. Went back to school after a few years and graduated as valedictorian at a well-known school.

I have an awesome career now in a tech company (not in sales, in something else entirely). I am very well compensated and have tons of flexibility and the best boss in the world.

I also have the best employees, who come from all different backgrounds. One of my right hand employees was a college dropout.

[Anonymous]

PP here. I started going back to school part time while working. My employer was supportive.

[Anonymous]

You shouldn't borrow more than your expected first year salary.

[Anonymous]

You're asking the wrong question.

"$80k in Debt Worth It for Misery?"

No.

[Anonymous]

Oh OP, my heart breaks for you. I was you 15 years ago. Very prestigious school but miserable, felt like I was disappointing my parents, etc etc. Ended up switching schools and changing majors. Had the most awful summer internship but made a ton of money so I thought that justified it, tried to make it work as full time post graduation and just hated life. I lasted 3 years before going back to grad school to do something I actually like.

Take a step back for a minute and analyze your major in a bubble. If your parents didn’t exist, would you enjoy it? If your only worry was whether you were proud of yourself, not society or family or stem loving people were impressed, would you stay? Humanities majors can and do contribute great things to the world! STEM isn’t everything.

I wish more than anything someone had told me how hard 20-25 can be. It’s a tumultuous time with so much pressure to know who you are and what you want when the reality is most of us don’t/didn’t have a clue.

If it were me, I’d probably finish the degree (if you think you can mentally handle it.) You can chase money and pay it off, or look into public service and get loans forgiven after a period of time. If you aren’t in a place to survive the last year, see if you can put the degree on hold for a year and work as much as you can to put a dent in that future tuition bill. A $40k loan is much easier to stomach than an $80k one.

But in the meantime, whatever you decide, please find a quality therapist. I wish I had started seeing one earlier. While she can’t change my financial standing, she absolutely helped me to see my worth separate from the way I felt my parents viewed me and helped me get treatment for the depression and anxiety that had become part of daily life for me.

FWIW, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Eventually you WILL figure this out, whether it’s a week or a year or a decade in the future. I’m now 36 and wish I could hug 21 year old me and tell her it’s going to be okay—that you will find your people and your place (as a career and beyond) and the things that bring you contentment and joy.

Please hang in there. I promise, it will get better.

[Anonymous]

In general, I’d say that the debt would be worth it —but not for you. The environment doesn’t sound like it was either healthy or pleasant for you.

In your place, I’d talk with the school about options — just so you know what they are. Can you get an extended leave of absence if you want to? What would it take to get readmitted in 5 years — should you wish to do so? Then, knowing that, make some plans for now.

Consider looking for a job. This will give you your own income, and the options that come with it — including changing your living situation should you wish to do so. It would also be a step in establishing yourself as financially independent — so future financial aid can look at your income — not that household income of your parents. Check with your school’s financial aid office to get a sense of what you need to do to establish financial independence, should you wish to do so.

Your plan to consider 7 sister schools sounds like a good one for you.

tldr: Don’t go into debt for an environment that you despise.

I’m sending good thoughts your way, OP.

[Anonymous]

Didn't most Ivies just pronounce they will no longer accept Plus loans?

[Anonymous]

Broken heart poster again.

I keep thinking about this. I said finish the degree because you’re so close! But really…it’s not worth it, and those who are saying not to pay for misery are absolutely right.

Unless your new major is one where name dropping is going to get you interviews, transfer. It’s not worth the misery.

[Anonymous]

Sending you a virtual 🤗 hug. You are bright. You are special. This is tearing you down, but you are resilient and will get through this. I would work and apply my earnings to school. I would take out loans, but only the minimum. I would complete the degree. You are close to finishing. You worked so hard to get where you are. Get your BA and figure out along the way what you want for grad school. You are an excellent student. (Your parents are tigers but they probably do want you to have more than they have. Parents make all kinds of mistakes, too.) Good luck along the way.

[Anonymous]

Not worth it. I had unheard of 70k debt in 1999. My parents stop paying tuition and I had to make up their share of the expected family contribution and I could not get grants because of their income. The debt was absolutely crippling and it affected my career decisions and I had to work three jobs until I was 31 years old to pay it off and I had absolutely no fun and no friends in my 20s and hardly any dating and let me to make a terrible terrible mistake getting married to the wrong person at 32 because when I should’ve been having fun and figure my life out in my 20s I was working several jobs to pay off my debt.

[Anonymous]

I just posted and my parents did cut me off and that’s how I accumulated the debt. If you can transfer to another school and not accumulate the debt that is being worth cut off because you’ll be in less.being cut off then continuing to go to a school that you don’t like and paying debt that you don’t want to pay back that is a huge step back for the rest of your future.

[Anonymous]

I am a non-tiger Asian mom (focused less on academics more on happiness) but I do think you should see it through. $80k is not a lot of debt and an Ivy degree means something. And you have a lot of options open to you even outside of law school. Non-tech sales, consulting, investment banking/finance. You should start ignoring your parents though. They sound like terrible people. Easier said than done. I wish you the best.

[Anonymous]

Finish the degree as long as your mental health allows it.

You're almost all the way across the river. An Ivy degree is huge. I went to lesser known undergrad and law schools and have still been able to find a decent job, but I know several people who went to Ivy league schools. They have doors open to them that I don't even know exist. Not because they are smarter than I am, but because people make assumptions about how smart /hard working you are if you went to one of those schools. It is almost always beneficial to have those names on your resume. Yes, there is the rare managing partner who went to a state school and hates Harvard kids, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Another poster made a great point about the debt. With PSLF, the landscape has changed. They've finally got the program in a somewhat decent place and people are shedding hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt while working jobs that they enjoy. Good luck, things will be better on the other side.

[Anonymous]

80k is definitely enough, particularly if you will make 100k+ after graduation.

I really think you can stick it through and graduate. If you drop out, chances of you going back are slim. I feel like at every college there's a spot for you. You need to research jobs more and figure out what you're good at. Don't go into law school if you don't like the law- it will be very boring. I actually love the law, love my niche area and enjoy it. So it makes the grunt work (the hard part is reading and analyzing tens of thousands of pages) enjoyable.

What did you actually like doing in school? History? Research? English? Math? What about data analytics?