$80k In Debt Worth It for Ivy Undergrad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

I’m PP and maybe I am white. But you’re a sociopath.

People will need survive to enjoy the prestige right? K. well, life is a little more complicated than Columbia>Smith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

I’m PP and maybe I am white. But you’re a sociopath.

People will need survive to enjoy the prestige right? K. well, life is a little more complicated than Columbia>Smith.

-1

I'm the sociopath here? LOL

Stop gaslighting the workplace experiences of millions of Asian women when you say that Smith will bring you the same advantages as Columbia. It never will, full stop.

[Anonymous]

OP, I read your update. What happened to your great plan of taking time off, gaining financial independence from your parents, and applying to seven sisters or another school in a few years? I agree with you that you shouldn’t go back to Columbia. You know yourself best and you know it’s not a good fit for you.

Another option if you’re worried about taking the time off would be to apply for a state school now, which, even if it requires you to report your parents’ income, may offer you a better financial aid package with loans that would be more manageable for you.

The previous poster who’s an Asian woman and is adamant about attending the Ivy League (and who I think is dead wrong in her assessment of you), is only one person with one life experience. Perhaps she is right that an Ivy League undergrad is especially advantageous for Asian women, but I went to a state school where I’d say at least 1/3 of my friends were Asian, and none of them had trouble finding decent employment. They are all professionally successful. Could they have gotten an additional promotion or worked at a more prestigious company if they had gone to an Ivy League? Maybe! But who cares, they are financially comfortable and seem satisfied with life.

I’m rooting for you, OP, and thought you had a good plan in place for yourself.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op, which state if your home state? And what is your preferred job - what would you love to do if money wasn't an issue?

I think I've already mentioned I'm from California.

I always said that if I had a trust fund I'd try to make it as a novelist or become some sort of community organizer or maybe an environmental educator. I know a wealthy Columbia grad who currently works in the Rockies leading middle school classes on environmental science (while taking them on adventure trips in nature), and I have to hide my jealousy of her.

But these are not exactly careers that easily translate into higher-paying alternatives. I guess there's technical writing or working at a non-profit, but at this point, those seem unappealing.

I think you need to start getting your head around the idea that most work is unappealing. There are a small handful of people who love what they do and never work a day in their life. But even novelists have to actually sit down and write their novels, even on the days they don't feel like it.

What you need to find is a job you can tolerate, basically. A schedule, workload, and tasks that aren't going to make you feel crazy or bad. It's easier said than done but I think at this stage you'd be better off looking for than than agonizing over whether to finish college. (Yes, you should finish. You'll bang out those $80k and be able to stop thinking about this.)

Do you like working a regular schedule? Do you have the stamina for a high intensity job or are you going to do better at a more laid back job? Do you like working from home, or in an office, or some combo of both? How much $ do you need to make to give yourself a decent life that you will enjoy (outside of what your parents want)? Do you need to be doing something with social good or are you just fine being in the for-profit sector? Do you care if people are impressed with what you do or is that not important to you? Etc.

Another question: Do you like jobs that are essentially done solo by yourself at a computer, or do you want to be interacting with customers, sources, clients, or coworkers a lot? Do you want to be at a computer most of the time or do you want a more active job? Are you looking to experiment with different jobs or are you trying to find yourself a spot where you can settle into a career, right away?

You're getting to the point you need to stop thinking about college and start thinking about the life you want for yourself after college.

OP here. You are right that most work is unappealing. But at this point, I'm way too mentally ill/suicidal to hack it at a job that pays the bills but is unappealing. Idk, for once in my life, I'd like to have some control or autonomy or do something pleasant. I'm too depressed to not do something I enjoy but pays the bills.

The questions you're asking are important, and the last one especially stands out to me. I would love to experiment with different jobs, but I have to settle into a career right away. And that career probably won't check off most of my other boxes in terms of the question you asked, since I'll have to take the highest-paying job available to me after graduation regardless of whether or not it suits me. This is because I'm about to take out $80k in loans, most of which will have high interest rates and little to no protections as most of the amount will be from private lenders. If I don't want to default on them, I'll have to take a high-paying job that will be WAY too intense for my tastes.

OP - honestly if things are as bad as you keep saying you may be eligible for disability. I have a friend who is on disability due to depression and BPD. It's not easy to get - she had to go through a long process, with appeals - but it makes her life more tolerable. She also has a spouse with a decent job - he fixes trucks; he's not some Wall Street-er - but I would really, really recommend trying to find friends/partners who you feel safe with, too.

You've talked yourself into this deep hole. I hope your therapist can help you understand that objectively your situation is not as terrible or doomed as it feels.

I think taking out $80k in mostly predatory private student loan lenders is terrible.

They will be gone in 10 years. You're not cutting off your arm forever. Or don't do it and enroll at a cheaper school! But you will have some loans coming out, so just build that into your plans and understanding of what you will be doing for the next 10 years.

I paid off $160k in loans over 20 years while working mainly as a writer, and not some fancy highly paid writer either. Not recommended! But trust me if I can do this you can do it.

^ And just to add - my best friend paid off something like $100k in loans while working as a social worker. There are a lot of people paying off a lot of loans out there. We're not all investment bankers. Sure it's harder when you make less! But this is life, man! You have to stop blaming your parents and stop feeling like there's one thing for you to do and everything else is impossible. At some point you have to act! Or apply for disability. I really do think that is something you should consider if things are as bad as you keep saying (and I am not doubting your account of your life, but the things you keep saying about how life is after college just don't comport with what most of us have actually experienced - you have a very theoretical understanding of life!).

I will most likely be graduating into a recession. Taking out $80k in loans for an English degree is objectively an ill-advised decision. What would the Columbia Class of 2008 have to say about my situation?

Columbia Class of 2008 would tell you to avail yourself of all of the resources available at their Career Services Center, and sign up for on campus interviews. If you live frugally for a few years, you’ll knock out those loans.

I’m not encouraging you to do this, mind you, simply answering your questions. But I will urge you to find out if you will continue to have access to the career support services at Columbia — even if you don’t end up graduating from Columbia. As a Yale grad, I’ve been startled by the resources that continue to be available to me as an alum.

OP here. I highly doubt the Columbia Class of 2008 can say the same. First, Yale is WAY better endowed and better resourced than Columbia. Columbia is a mega-university focused on grad students, so the resources for undergrads are much more scarce compared to Yale or most of the other Ivies. IIRC Columbia comes in second-to-last (only to Cornell) in terms of funding dollars per student.

Columbia's Career Center is widely regarded as useless among the entire student body. And the alumni network is notoriously weak (mainly because the vast majority of Columbia alumni feel, at best, no connection to their alma mater, or usually a very negative connection since most Columbia students disliked their college years since it's such a stressful, cutthroat environment), so it's not like Columbia alumni are going to help me network or get a job. Columbia is an intensely fend for your self, dog-eat-dog kind of place. No point in me staying.

But I fundamentally know that if I can't hack it at a place as cold, intense, competitive, cutthroat, and unwelcoming as Columbia, I'll never be able to make it in life. A middle-class Asian woman like me needs to be able thrive in these sorts of environments if my life is going to be meaningful or productive in any way. But I'm not cut out for something like this. I'm so much better off just ending my life. I'll be saving myself the inevitable pain and disappointment of my the future. Not living anymore is a huge relief.

I've been planning my suicide for the past few days. Doing so has given me a sense of peace and happiness that I've never experienced before. I have nothing in my life worth living for, and I'm excited for my long future of endless sleep.

I'm choosing to read this as a legit cry for help, and as a middle-class Asian woman who is content with her middle-class life, I can say that you need to go back to your therapist and discuss this belief that because of your race and gender, your life can only be a cold, intense, competitive, cutthroat life. That's depression talking because it doesn't make sense. Clearly you have been brainwashed and gaslit by your parents and their community, and you are struggling to actually separate yourself from them. So talk to your therapist, get to the heart of your current situation which is actually cutting ties with your toxic family and community. Get on medication while you sort things out and get back on your feet. Ignore the haters in this thread who drink the same koolaid your family is drinking.

If you can't get a hold of your therapist right away, try some other resources like https://988lifeline.org/ .

I had depression in my teens and early 20s. I know how it spirals down. You need to come up for air, and your therapist or psychiologist or even just a general practitioner can help with that.

^^very, very good advice. Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

I’m PP and maybe I am white. But you’re a sociopath.

People will need survive to enjoy the prestige right? K. well, life is a little more complicated than Columbia>Smith.

Principally yea, I am another Asian PP. An white woman can go to George Mason, take a year off in between, and still find a comfortable job ranging from office manager to project manager where she receives plenty of mentorship and gets treated with kindness.
If she is attractive and polished, she will get promoted or recruited every 2-3 years.
For the Asian women, she will do all the dirty work the org dumps on her, and gets pushed out when the project is done.
When things are going well, she feels included in the team.
When things go south, she will be the first one under the bus.
Ivy will elevate 90% of possibility of this. It’s hard to see it today, but do BA in basket waiving if you have to.

[Anonymous]

You will get through this OP. Hang in there.
Take it one day at a time. Don’t let your depression make decisions for you.
Life is extremely unpredictable. Just because you are miserable now does not mean your future will be the same.
It is fine to quit Columbia. Do whatever is best for you.
No one can guarantee where you will end up but believe me you can be happy with a low or mid-level job.
I know plenty of law firm partners and bankers who are wealthy but are unhappy with their lives.

Find the strength to do whatever you want. Have compassion for yourself. Take care

[Anonymous]

I completely get where you are, OP. I was there too, once.

You feel you will be WORTHLESS if you don't get your Ivy degree, if you aren't intense and hard-working and gain the outward trappings of success for the rest of your life.

But you are WRONG. Your depression is distorting reality. Your depressed mind believes that if you can't hack Columbia, you can't hack life.

That's totally absurd, twisted thinking.

DO NOT listen to the crazy "Asian woman" poster troll who's gunning for you to kill yourself. "She's" probably a teenaged male troll who gets points for being as destructive as possible online. Every word "she" wrote is a LIE.

I know several successful Asian women who have not gone to Ivy League colleges, who have not won awards and made huge amounts of money. They are employed in responsible (but not crazy intense) jobs, and balance kids and career as most of us do. They have happy lives, and you can too, once you remove yourself from the yoke you've placed on your shoulders defining "success" in such an extremely limited way (i.e. Ivy degree, high-pay, high-stress career, etc.).

When you're young, you don't have the perspective to see that life goes in waves. Right now you're at the bottom of the curve, but it will go up and down over time. Eventually, you get used to riding the waves, and expect ups and downs and aren't expecting to always stay at the top, because that NEVER happens, ever, even to the most superficially successful people. Never. I've seen this many, many times.

For example, one woman I know just went through the most messy, horrible divorce imaginable. She's very pretty, very smart, very successful in her financial career, as is her now-ex-husband. She's also an alcoholic who lost custody of her children during the divorce, which involved a trial in which her children testified against her. She had two beautiful (spectacular) homes, which she also lost in the divorce.

She's still pretty, very smart, and lives in a lovely, spacious, expensive apartment, but her life is a MESS. You'd never know it if you met her casually. She doesn't give the slightest impression of what's been going on. She had to quit her job because of her drinking, and now lives on her savings and the settlement from her divorce.

If this is the standard you aspire to, OP, you must be able to see that you are worshiping a false god. Those people who seem to glide through life with win after win come down to earth eventually, and their crashes can be spectacular.

The person I described above is now very, very depressed, and likely has been depressed for years, self-medicating with so much alcohol that she eventually became addicted and that addiction spiraled out of control.

I know your parents love you and want the best for you. It's difficult to accept that people who love you also hurt you deeply, but we don't choose our parents. If they are immigrants, they've probably sacrificed a lot for you, and they believe they know what's best for you. But they are wrong too.

Separating yourself from their terrible influence on you is very difficult, very emotionally wrenching, but you MUST do it.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Life will get better for you, OP, if you just let go of your parents' and the influence of people who expect you to conform to certain ways of living because you're a smart Asian woman.

Discard all that nonsense. One of my Asian friends got a PhD in art history from an Ivy, but after she met her very nice, down-to-earth husband in grad school, she realized that she got the PhD only to fulfill her parents' ambitions for her. She had no real interest in teaching or working in a museum, so she got a social work degree from a state school. She's now a very happy mom who works part-time as a social worker in a public school. Her husband is a college professor (not a lot of $$), but they have everything they need to live a successful, comfortable life.

Relationships are everything, OP. If you don't have love in your life, you will never be happy, no matter how much material wealth or how many fancy degrees or professional accolades you acquire.

Walk away from all the toxic people in your life directing you to their version of "success" that you don't believe in. You may have the smarts to win a Rhodes, but why reach for something you neither need nor want?

I finally became able to live and enjoy my life when I let go of my toxic family and followed my gut feelings about doing what I wanted and being with the people who made me feel good about myself. I did that in my early 20s, and have never looked back.

Life is precious, OP. You only get one, and you must take care of it. There is so much beauty in the world that you'll find once you let go of expectations that others place on you. You're the master of your life, only you. Life seems hopeless now, but that's only a feeling, and feelings aren't facts. The fact is (and I know this) that you will feel better, and your life will improve and you will feel happy in the future, even though you don't or can't see it now. It will come.

Keep moving forward, OP, one small step at a time, and ignore the "peace" you feel planning your own death. That's the evil voices of others speaking to you, not your voice. You're here to live, OP, and you have a great life ahead of you, full of ups and downs, but still a spectacular gift, too precious to waste.

[Anonymous]

OP, another Asian woman here. I also had these self harming feelings in college. You are worthy of life and please go to an ER. Sending love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

I’m PP and maybe I am white. But you’re a sociopath.

People will need survive to enjoy the prestige right? K. well, life is a little more complicated than Columbia>Smith.

Principally yea, I am another Asian PP. An white woman can go to George Mason, take a year off in between, and still find a comfortable job ranging from office manager to project manager where she receives plenty of mentorship and gets treated with kindness.
If she is attractive and polished, she will get promoted or recruited every 2-3 years.
For the Asian women, she will do all the dirty work the org dumps on her, and gets pushed out when the project is done.
When things are going well, she feels included in the team.
When things go south, she will be the first one under the bus.
Ivy will elevate 90% of possibility of this. It’s hard to see it today, but do BA in basket waiving if you have to.

OP, you must finish at Columbia. At all costs. Please stay at your current school -- your future professional self will thank you so much. Anything else is throwing away all that you've worked for.

And ignore the losers who say that you can leave Columbia and it will "all work out." They are horrifically misguided.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Op, which state if your home state? And what is your preferred job - what would you love to do if money wasn't an issue?

I think I've already mentioned I'm from California.

I always said that if I had a trust fund I'd try to make it as a novelist or become some sort of community organizer or maybe an environmental educator. I know a wealthy Columbia grad who currently works in the Rockies leading middle school classes on environmental science (while taking them on adventure trips in nature), and I have to hide my jealousy of her.

But these are not exactly careers that easily translate into higher-paying alternatives. I guess there's technical writing or working at a non-profit, but at this point, those seem unappealing.

I think you need to start getting your head around the idea that most work is unappealing. There are a small handful of people who love what they do and never work a day in their life. But even novelists have to actually sit down and write their novels, even on the days they don't feel like it.

What you need to find is a job you can tolerate, basically. A schedule, workload, and tasks that aren't going to make you feel crazy or bad. It's easier said than done but I think at this stage you'd be better off looking for than than agonizing over whether to finish college. (Yes, you should finish. You'll bang out those $80k and be able to stop thinking about this.)

Do you like working a regular schedule? Do you have the stamina for a high intensity job or are you going to do better at a more laid back job? Do you like working from home, or in an office, or some combo of both? How much $ do you need to make to give yourself a decent life that you will enjoy (outside of what your parents want)? Do you need to be doing something with social good or are you just fine being in the for-profit sector? Do you care if people are impressed with what you do or is that not important to you? Etc.

Another question: Do you like jobs that are essentially done solo by yourself at a computer, or do you want to be interacting with customers, sources, clients, or coworkers a lot? Do you want to be at a computer most of the time or do you want a more active job? Are you looking to experiment with different jobs or are you trying to find yourself a spot where you can settle into a career, right away?

You're getting to the point you need to stop thinking about college and start thinking about the life you want for yourself after college.

OP here. You are right that most work is unappealing. But at this point, I'm way too mentally ill/suicidal to hack it at a job that pays the bills but is unappealing. Idk, for once in my life, I'd like to have some control or autonomy or do something pleasant. I'm too depressed to not do something I enjoy but pays the bills.

The questions you're asking are important, and the last one especially stands out to me. I would love to experiment with different jobs, but I have to settle into a career right away. And that career probably won't check off most of my other boxes in terms of the question you asked, since I'll have to take the highest-paying job available to me after graduation regardless of whether or not it suits me. This is because I'm about to take out $80k in loans, most of which will have high interest rates and little to no protections as most of the amount will be from private lenders. If I don't want to default on them, I'll have to take a high-paying job that will be WAY too intense for my tastes.

OP - honestly if things are as bad as you keep saying you may be eligible for disability. I have a friend who is on disability due to depression and BPD. It's not easy to get - she had to go through a long process, with appeals - but it makes her life more tolerable. She also has a spouse with a decent job - he fixes trucks; he's not some Wall Street-er - but I would really, really recommend trying to find friends/partners who you feel safe with, too.

You've talked yourself into this deep hole. I hope your therapist can help you understand that objectively your situation is not as terrible or doomed as it feels.

I think taking out $80k in mostly predatory private student loan lenders is terrible.

They will be gone in 10 years. You're not cutting off your arm forever. Or don't do it and enroll at a cheaper school! But you will have some loans coming out, so just build that into your plans and understanding of what you will be doing for the next 10 years.

I paid off $160k in loans over 20 years while working mainly as a writer, and not some fancy highly paid writer either. Not recommended! But trust me if I can do this you can do it.

^ And just to add - my best friend paid off something like $100k in loans while working as a social worker. There are a lot of people paying off a lot of loans out there. We're not all investment bankers. Sure it's harder when you make less! But this is life, man! You have to stop blaming your parents and stop feeling like there's one thing for you to do and everything else is impossible. At some point you have to act! Or apply for disability. I really do think that is something you should consider if things are as bad as you keep saying (and I am not doubting your account of your life, but the things you keep saying about how life is after college just don't comport with what most of us have actually experienced - you have a very theoretical understanding of life!).

I will most likely be graduating into a recession. Taking out $80k in loans for an English degree is objectively an ill-advised decision. What would the Columbia Class of 2008 have to say about my situation?

Columbia Class of 2008 would tell you to avail yourself of all of the resources available at their Career Services Center, and sign up for on campus interviews. If you live frugally for a few years, you’ll knock out those loans.

I’m not encouraging you to do this, mind you, simply answering your questions. But I will urge you to find out if you will continue to have access to the career support services at Columbia — even if you don’t end up graduating from Columbia. As a Yale grad, I’ve been startled by the resources that continue to be available to me as an alum.

OP here. I highly doubt the Columbia Class of 2008 can say the same. First, Yale is WAY better endowed and better resourced than Columbia. Columbia is a mega-university focused on grad students, so the resources for undergrads are much more scarce compared to Yale or most of the other Ivies. IIRC Columbia comes in second-to-last (only to Cornell) in terms of funding dollars per student.

Columbia's Career Center is widely regarded as useless among the entire student body. And the alumni network is notoriously weak (mainly because the vast majority of Columbia alumni feel, at best, no connection to their alma mater, or usually a very negative connection since most Columbia students disliked their college years since it's such a stressful, cutthroat environment), so it's not like Columbia alumni are going to help me network or get a job. Columbia is an intensely fend for your self, dog-eat-dog kind of place. No point in me staying.

But I fundamentally know that if I can't hack it at a place as cold, intense, competitive, cutthroat, and unwelcoming as Columbia, I'll never be able to make it in life. A middle-class Asian woman like me needs to be able thrive in these sorts of environments if my life is going to be meaningful or productive in any way. But I'm not cut out for something like this. I'm so much better off just ending my life. I'll be saving myself the inevitable pain and disappointment of my the future. Not living anymore is a huge relief.

I've been planning my suicide for the past few days. Doing so has given me a sense of peace and happiness that I've never experienced before. I have nothing in my life worth living for, and I'm excited for my long future of endless sleep.

I'm choosing to read this as a legit cry for help, and as a middle-class Asian woman who is content with her middle-class life, I can say that you need to go back to your therapist and discuss this belief that because of your race and gender, your life can only be a cold, intense, competitive, cutthroat life. That's depression talking because it doesn't make sense. Clearly you have been brainwashed and gaslit by your parents and their community, and you are struggling to actually separate yourself from them. So talk to your therapist, get to the heart of your current situation which is actually cutting ties with your toxic family and community. Get on medication while you sort things out and get back on your feet. Ignore the haters in this thread who drink the same koolaid your family is drinking.

If you can't get a hold of your therapist right away, try some other resources like https://988lifeline.org/ .

I had depression in my teens and early 20s. I know how it spirals down. You need to come up for air, and your therapist or psychiologist or even just a general practitioner can help with that.

^^very, very good advice. Well said.

-10000

Objectively, the best path to success for OP is if she stays at Columbia. Please stop feeding her other nonsense.

[Anonymous]

No Asian American woman in my family went to an Ivy, yet we've all found careers we love ranging from the arts, publishing, non-profit work, forestry, military and business.

OP, you don't need anyone else's approval. Life is too short to spend today in misery. Explore your options and do what YOU want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

How dare you tell a suicidal young woman that life is just going to get harder and harder. This whole thread is vile! Somebody help this girl!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - what you are feeling right now is not how you will feel forever. I promise you things are so so so different (and mostly better) once you are fully an adult.

I am an earlier poster where I said one of the sever sisters might be good for you. I really meant that - and listen when I say - they will welcome you later in life too. You don’t need to rush into anything.

Not all places are like Columbia - I promise you. But I also don’t feel “lesser” than just bc I didn’t do Ivy. I am now much more successful than many, many Ivy grads.

You have no idea how much better things can be and you don’t need Columbia. I promise.

I just know reading this comment that PP is a white woman oblivious to her privilege.

OP, do NOT pay attention to this comment at all. First, it's highly unlikely a Seven Sisters will accept you, and second, even if you are accepted, you'll probably have to take out more loans than if you stayed at Columbia.

But more importantly -- and I'm speaking as a middle-class Asian woman to OP (another middle-class Asian woman) -- woman from our demographic are GREATLY ENHANCED by the Ivy pedigree. From my experiences in the workplace, having an Ivy undergrad helps us IMMENSELY. You will get MUCH further in your career if you have a BA from Columbia than if you had a BA from a place like Smith; anyone who denies this is simply gaslighting the professional experiences of most middle-class Asian-American women.

OP, you MUST stay at Columbia no matter what. You ABSOLUTELY HAVE to graduate from there, or else you'll deeply regret leaving for the rest of your life. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GRADUATE FROM THERE!

Also OP, you should really try to appreciate being at Columbia more. It's a great school -- one that 99% of Americans would kill to get into. You need to be more grateful for what you have (which will help abet your suicidality). Besides, if you think undergrad at Columbia in a (frankly, easy) major is hard, then imagine your life after graduation. The working world (and being an adult in general) is MUCH, MUCH harder than being in college. Enjoy what you have now, because your life will get harder after graduation.

How dare you tell a suicidal young woman that life is just going to get harder and harder. This whole thread is vile! Somebody help this girl!

Well, PP is kind of right.

[Anonymous]

OP, this has progressed from advice about whether 80k of debt is worth it to stay at Columbia to you feeling like your life is not worth living.

I’m a PP who felt fairly adamant that the answer to your 80k question is yes, it would be worth it to stay at Columbia. Having seen your most recent post, I am certain that this is not about college at all, and you shouldn’t, and won’t, I expect, return to Columbia. Not this year. Not until you are in a much different place, if ever.

Your life is worth so much more than an Ivy League degree. I’m so sorry your parents were so close minded to this. From an anonymous distance, all I can say is there are many ways to find peace, and I hope you really think hard about what other plans would bring you that peace and perhaps even more than just peace (joy, if you’re hailing to take a leap of faith with me here). I’m hurting for you OP, and I hope you’ll find another way through this difficult period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No Asian American woman in my family went to an Ivy, yet we've all found careers we love ranging from the arts, publishing, non-profit work, forestry, military and business.

OP, you don't need anyone else's approval. Life is too short to spend today in misery. Explore your options and do what YOU want to do.

I am almost certain you're a troll. Asian American women going into forestry or the military? LOL.

Also, saying that life is too short to spend today in misery is the antithesis of the Asian mindset. The whole Asian immigrant mindset, which I immensely admire, is that you're SUPPOSED to sacrifice your life in order to set the next generation up for success. If OP leaves Columbia, she breaks that self-sacrificing mindset and becomes yet another navel-gazing college drop out. Her life will be so much harder and her own kids will never forgive her.

All this to say, OP, that I'm going to be telling you something your parents have probably been telling you for your whole life: Your childhood and young adulthood aren't supposed to be fun and enjoyable. They might even be miserable. This is okay, because the whole purpose of your life from 0 to 30 is to set yourself and your kids up for success for the next 50 years.

Stay at Columbia!!!

+1