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Women's Sports and Lia Thomas thread
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Anonymous
Oh please. There are tons of people I don’t respect but treat kindly and professionally. Religious nutters, anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists…I could go on. No one DESERVES respect in my thoughts/head merely because they exist. But they do deserve to be TREATED with respect and kindness, which they do when in my office. And truthfully, out of my office as well. Contrary to what you probably think, I’m not an a$$hole to people. |
Anonymous
How about when it comes to legislation? Do you support legal protections for transgender people against discrimination? The Equality Act? |
Anonymous
I think that it is possible to support transgender women and at the same time disagree that a transgender women who experienced puberty as a male and retains male anatomy should compete against women in sports. It seems like many people disagree with that and feel that expressing the sentiment that a trans woman who retains male anatomy and/or hormones have advantages against women is transphobia. I’m not if there much discussion to be had if neither side can’t adjust on these positions. |
Anonymous
Do you mean at any level in any sport? How does that position compare with NCAA/IOC/USA Swimming guidelines for transgender athletes? |
Anonymous
Yes. But I don’t consider competitive swimming as a protected right. |
Anonymous
In this case we are talking about elite sports where her times are surpassing those of Olympians by significant amounts. If they started sending people to the Olympics today following the position that Lia can participate in all sports as a woman, she'd be going to the Olympics. This isn't about what changing room little Janey wants to go into or what elementary school swim meet, but the highest level of sport. If you accept that men and women need to have different sports competitions due to fundamental physical differences - which says nothing at all about how they perceive themselves -- then some scientific and biologically-based rules need to apply. Iszac Henig's case follows biology, and I haven't heard anyone say he shouldn't swim on the female team. He is living his authentic life as a man and making decisions about his medical treatment in order to compete in higher-level sports. |
Anonymous
Presumably you are able to use google to evaluate these organizations’ positions. I’m not sure how it relates to my post. |
Anonymous
Your post wasn't completely clear - bottom surgery vs. puberty vs. hormone levels? What specifically is your criteria? You do support transgender athletes competing at any level? |
Anonymous
It's not clear if PP meant all levels of competition or just elite. If you are going to divide up sports into "fundamental physical differences" wouldn't you need to account for the natural variation for cis-gender athletes? 
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Anonymous
My opinion after reading much research is that trans women who go through puberty as male retain substantial performance advantages over cis women even after hormone therapy. This position is generally accepted, even by those in the women’s sports policy group which is seeking to find meaningful ways for trans athletes in competitive sports. However their position is that the natural advantages of trans women can be “mitigated”. I disagree with this approach.[youtube] |
Anonymous
Yes, they allocate support for issues of racial equity now, though that is a relatively recent development. But that doesn’t erase the history of organizations like the NWLC and how language like the language quoted above has been used to minimize the concerns of women of color and poor women. And when you are talking about a zero sum issue like athletics where winning can make the difference in access to education for a historically marginalized population, this vague and hand-wavy “we all win together” language that so strongly mimics the language used to tell Black feminists not to raise their issues for over a century is troubling. I don’t know the right answer here. It is a hard and nuanced question. But I think it is dishonest to pretend that the question of elite athletics and transwomen isn’t complex and is just something easily resolved by facile “we win together” pleasantries. |
Anonymous
DP. That picture features athletes from very different sports. If you put together a picture of elite women swimmers born female, they would look physically very similar. Lia Thomas (who is following the existing rules, it is important to note) would stand out as an aberration in a picture like this of elite women swimmers. |
Anonymous
It's complex, but better solved together than pitting cis-gender vs. trans-gender. https://nwlc.org/dear-ncaa-its-not-too-late-to-let-trans-intersex-students-play/ "A full 50 years after Title IX mandated equal treatment in school athletics, there is a persistent gap in resources allotted to girls, especially girls of color. Professional women athletes still file lawsuits and threaten to strike over vastly unequal pay. Student athletes still experience high rates of sexual harassment, including assault. Yet, the insulting myth that trans athletes are “taking away” trophies from cis athletes continues to find a place in the narrative about trans athletes. As gender justice advocates, we demand time and energy go toward these urgent issues affecting women and nonbinary student athletes." |
Anonymous
| ^ president/CEO of NWLC |
Anonymous
The point is there is significant "fundamental physical differences" for cis-gender athletes. If PP is "concerned" about physical differences, then that should extend for cis-gender athletes as well. Either adding new physical restrictions for all or open up new sub-categories. |