Turns out, Harvard students aren’t that smart after all

[Anonymous]

bridge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All athletes have to get into Harvard just like everyone else. All of them. They don't get a pass.

Exactly. The student doesn’t get in because he is athlete. The athlete gets in because he is student. I know 4 recent “recruited” athlete. Would they have gotten in without the sport at 3% admission rate? But were they qualified—absolutely. Every one was 1580 or above and top grades. It might also be the same with legacy, don’t have any personal experience. But at least with athlete, everyone has chance to be that.

Cute story. We don't need to speculate or use personal experience. We have six years of data from Harvard and it is unambiguous. Admitted athletes have markedly lower academic ratings than other admitted students and, but for their athlete status, would not have been admitted.

I truly don't understand why people can't admit this. They have no problem saying someone was admitted only because they were a URM or their parents donated a building. You got in because you were an athlete and you probably would not have gotten in otherwise.

Yes, this is pretty clear in the data. On the other hand it is also likely true (haven't seen it measured, but would love to see evidence pro/con) that athletic success is predictive of life success. It's basically concrete evidence of achievement in a competitive environment, requiring consistent, dedicated effort.

Ah, the eternal fallback, athletes are a special kind of person. because people who excel at anything else don't need to put in consistent, dedicated effort.

Maybe athletes succeed later in life because they're constantly given handouts - athletes from rich, white backgrounds prefer hiring people who are like them.

Athletes as a group are more diverse than the general student population, but as a group they also have better outcomes. You don't seem to know much about the studies of outcomes of athletes and their admissions profiles.

[Anonymous]

My freshman roommate was a legacy and a valedictorian. So eyeroll at "not smart."

[Anonymous]

This was true with respect to students from my boarding school. Lots of legacies and athletes. Notwithstanding the contrary anecdotes of people here on this post, IME they weren't the best and the brightest academically. Of course, Harvard, like any private school, is entitled to use whatever criteria it wants to build a balanced class, but the borrowed academic luster conferred on these students is a bit misleading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

What is your point? Harvard doesn’t have to accept anyone based on SAT scores. I don’t get these arguments. Many people on this board think that Harvard’s admissions should be a merit-based and by that GPA and testing scores. Even if AA were eliminated, do you really think the Harvard student demographics would look much different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

What is your point? Harvard doesn’t have to accept anyone based on SAT scores. I don’t get these arguments. Many people on this board think that Harvard’s admissions should be a merit-based and by that GPA and testing scores. Even if AA were eliminated, do you really think the Harvard student demographics would look much different?

The point is that PP was full of it when they said that there was one qualified bucket that wasn't based on race. There clearly are different standard based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

What is your point? Harvard doesn’t have to accept anyone based on SAT scores. I don’t get these arguments. Many people on this board think that Harvard’s admissions should be a merit-based and by that GPA and testing scores. Even if AA were eliminated, do you really think the Harvard student demographics would look much different?

We already have a case study with UC Berkley, and yes the demographics did change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All athletes have to get into Harvard just like everyone else. All of them. They don't get a pass.

Exactly. The student doesn’t get in because he is athlete. The athlete gets in because he is student. I know 4 recent “recruited” athlete. Would they have gotten in without the sport at 3% admission rate? But were they qualified—absolutely. Every one was 1580 or above and top grades. It might also be the same with legacy, don’t have any personal experience. But at least with athlete, everyone has chance to be that.

Cute story. We don't need to speculate or use personal experience. We have six years of data from Harvard and it is unambiguous. Admitted athletes have markedly lower academic ratings than other admitted students and, but for their athlete status, would not have been admitted.

I truly don't understand why people can't admit this. They have no problem saying someone was admitted only because they were a URM or their parents donated a building. You got in because you were an athlete and you probably would not have gotten in otherwise.

Yes, this is pretty clear in the data. On the other hand it is also likely true (haven't seen it measured, but would love to see evidence pro/con) that athletic success is predictive of life success. It's basically concrete evidence of achievement in a competitive environment, requiring consistent, dedicated effort.

Ah, the eternal fallback, athletes are a special kind of person. because people who excel at anything else don't need to put in consistent, dedicated effort.


Maybe athletes succeed later in life because they're constantly given handouts - athletes from rich, white backgrounds prefer hiring people who are like them.

Athletes as a group are more diverse than the general student population, but as a group they also have better outcomes. You don't seem to know much about the studies of outcomes of athletes and their admissions profiles.

You don't seem to read the study that we have.

Athletics are Harvard and most Ivy League schools are around 70% white. For the data we have, 69% of accepted athletes at Harvard were white. Tell me again how they are more diverse than the general student population.

Economically, the study found at most 3.2% of white admitted athletes were economically disadvantaged. Harvard athletes are white and they come from advantaged backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

Again, if you're an athlete 1408 gets you right in if you're white. If you want to claim that URM is some blight on the admissions process and fairness, then own the whole thing and admit that athletic recruiting is at least equally, if not more, distorted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

Again, if you're an athlete 1408 gets you right in if you're white. If you want to claim that URM is some blight on the admissions process and fairness, then own the whole thing and admit that athletic recruiting is at least equally, if not more, distorted.

Do you have any source that supports that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The article states that 3/4 of these students would have been rejected except for their hook. They are not qualified. White kids at Harvard are not that smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's a nice story, but absent AA, a 1408 SAT score would be in the unqualified bucket for Harvard

No, you are 100% wrong, you either can't read or are in denial. I am guessing you read just fine, so....

THEY. ARE. ALL. QUALIFIED.

Harvard doesn't see strata within the qualified category as you do. They don't see it because it doesn't exist in practicality. That strata makes no difference to them.

The average African American SAT section score is a 704. If you believe that a 1408 gets you into Harvard, I have a bride to sell you.

So the data posted at 11/17/2021 15:02 is a lie?

/ps already have a bride, thanks.

1408 plus URM gets you in. 1408 and white or asian gets laughed at.

No number gets you in. They could fill the whole of Harvard with URMs with perfect SATs. There's a number to get into the 'considered' pile but you have to do something else quite remarkable (or be connected to someone influential) to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The article states that 3/4 of these students would have been rejected except for their hook. They are not qualified. White kids at Harvard are not that smart.

That doesn't mean that they weren't qualified. Thousands and thousands of qualified applicants don't get accepted.