Turns out, Harvard students aren’t that smart after all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not surprised. I went to NCS back in the 90's and the girls who went there had a lot of $$ and legacy connections, but were NOT the smartest in the class.

I also went to a private in the 1990s and the Harvard bound students were all top students, regardless of legacy or not.

It seems that these days to get into Harvard as a legacy you need to be a legacy + powerful connections, aka famous parents or wealthy donor, and given Harvard it's not difficult to see there's quite a few of famous/wealthy/highly accomplished Harvard grads with children who are also stellar students. The difference from the 1990s was that it was possible for an ordinary UMC with a father who was a Harvard grad and otherwise just an ordinary UMC professional to get in on legacy status, but those legacies rarely make the cut anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, duh? Did anyone think that Harvard and the like were really selecting for the most intelligent students?

+1, at least for the white applicants.

Oh really? Average SAT scores of admitted applicants by race at Harvard:

Asian-American 767
White 745
Hispanic American 718
Native American 712
African American 704

Source: The Harvard Crimson

Out of 800 per subject. Can’t do out of 1600 because it was out of 2400 some years.

On a test scored out of 1400, the average Asian-American got 767? I really find that hard to believe. Do you have a link?

I know kids with those scores who are solid B students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, duh? Did anyone think that Harvard and the like were really selecting for the most intelligent students?

+1, at least for the white applicants.

Oh really? Average SAT scores of admitted applicants by race at Harvard:

Asian-American 767
White 745
Hispanic American 718
Native American 712
African American 704

Source: The Harvard Crimson

Out of 800 per subject. Can’t do out of 1600 because it was out of 2400 some years.

On a test scored out of 1400, the average Asian-American got 767? I really find that hard to believe. Do you have a link?

It's out of 800. And that's quite a spread from top to bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, duh? Did anyone think that Harvard and the like were really selecting for the most intelligent students?

+1, at least for the white applicants.

Oh really? Average SAT scores of admitted applicants by race at Harvard:

Asian-American 767
White 745
Hispanic American 718
Native American 712
African American 704

Source: The Harvard Crimson

Out of 800 per subject. Can’t do out of 1600 because it was out of 2400 some years.

On a test scored out of 1400, the average Asian-American got 767? I really find that hard to believe. Do you have a link?

It's out of 800. And that's quite a spread from top to bottom.

So if average is 704 - 745, for non Asians, some are definitely in the 600s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The study itself states that a significant portion of this group would not have gotten in without the preference.

It does not follow that they were not "qualified." H has more qualified applicants than it can accept.

Right. Being qualified is not what gets you in; its what gets you to apply.

[Anonymous]

Duh. Without naming names, I knew one family from NW who had their THREE sons attend (father, grandfather were alum and extremely influential in national politics). A friend of mine went to Harvard for undergrad and Chicago for graduate school and felt the education he got at Chicago was superior.

Harvard has a history and great branding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The study itself states that a significant portion of this group would not have gotten in without the preference.

That's because brilliant white kids still need another hook to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The study itself states that a significant portion of this group would not have gotten in without the preference.

That's because brilliant white kids still need another hook to get in.

Brilliant white kids need another hook to get in because non brilliant white kids are being accepted due to their athletic abilities.

[Anonymous]

All athletes have to get into Harvard just like everyone else. All of them. They don't get a pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The study itself states that a significant portion of this group would not have gotten in without the preference.

That's because brilliant white kids still need another hook to get in.

Brilliant white kids need another hook to get in because non brilliant white kids are being accepted due to their athletic abilities.

Being white is a detriment for admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All athletes have to get into Harvard just like everyone else. All of them. They don't get a pass.

Exactly. The student doesn’t get in because he is athlete. The athlete gets in because he is student. I know 4 recent “recruited” athlete. Would they have gotten in without the sport at 3% admission rate? But were they qualified—absolutely. Every one was 1580 or above and top grades. It might also be the same with legacy, don’t have any personal experience. But at least with athlete, everyone has chance to be that.

[Anonymous]

This is true of most of the Ivy League.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't see any proof in the article that those applicants were not qualified or would have been rejected. Just a statement that said they would have with no support. Just because you are an athlete, a legacy or a teacher's child...does not mean you aren't smart or have the grades or test scores.
Did those things help them get in - sure - but no support for the other.

The study itself states that a significant portion of this group would not have gotten in without the preference.

That's because brilliant white kids still need another hook to get in.

Brilliant white kids need another hook to get in because non brilliant white kids are being accepted due to their athletic abilities.

Being white is a detriment for admissions.

You can't really believe this do you? I guarantee if a white kid doesn't get in, it's not because he is white. It's because there is a more qualified, hooked, legacy white kid who took that space. Not some random person of color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, duh? Did anyone think that Harvard and the like were really selecting for the most intelligent students?

+1, at least for the white applicants.

Oh really? Average SAT scores of admitted applicants by race at Harvard:

Asian-American 767
White 745
Hispanic American 718
Native American 712
African American 704

Source: The Harvard Crimson

Out of 800 per subject. Can’t do out of 1600 because it was out of 2400 some years.

On a test scored out of 1400, the average Asian-American got 767? I really find that hard to believe. Do you have a link?

It's out of 800. And that's quite a spread from top to bottom.

If you think >5% is "quite a spread" I can tell you weren't a math major at Harvard.

/ps before you yell read the post back in the thread you have to double the scores for the percentiles so yes 63 >5% of 1600.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, duh? Did anyone think that Harvard and the like were really selecting for the most intelligent students?

+1, at least for the white applicants.

Oh really? Average SAT scores of admitted applicants by race at Harvard:

Asian-American 767
White 745
Hispanic American 718
Native American 712
African American 704

Source: The Harvard Crimson

Out of 800 per subject. Can’t do out of 1600 because it was out of 2400 some years.

On a test scored out of 1400, the average Asian-American got 767? I really find that hard to believe. Do you have a link?

It's out of 800. And that's quite a spread from top to bottom.

If you think >5% is "quite a spread" I can tell you weren't a math major at Harvard.

/ps before you yell read the post back in the thread you have to double the scores for the percentiles so yes 63 >5% of 1600.

+1. GTFO people. Learn about math before you comment.