If everyone indeed has a 3.9 or better, there's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In mcps, each high school has a school profile that you can access and it shows weighted grade distribution among graduating seniors. Last year I checked ours (Churchill) and was shocked at how many students have over 4.5 - I want to say over 1/4 of the grade. So, most of them probably have 4.0 or close to it unweighted."

Could you please share the link to this info?

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/careercenter/class20of20202020final20profile.pdf

29% of the graduating class had a 4.51 or higher.

Yet the SAT average is only 1317 -- Something's not adding up

Well a 79.5 in the first quarter and a 89.5 in the second Quarter equals an A for a semester. You basically have to be an idiot to not get As in Montgomery County.

What? How?

[Anonymous]

NP. Maybe now eyes will be opened on the complete lack of standardization of grades. Sure everyone knows this, but it seems like colleges, and by extension some discussion here at DCUM, act as though we can compare them.

While I absolutely believe there is a small subset of very bright kids who have test issues (e.g. w/speed) such that scores do not indicate the status of their academic skills, there is a sense that most kids applying test optional are decent students with great grades but lower scores, and dwarf that group. I don't know how admissions would be able to tell the difference. I suppose I'm not a fan of the current test optional environment and wonder how admissions evolves from here, how many highly selective colleges will go back to requiring scores, or de facto requiring whether stated or not.

[Anonymous]

Looking at Scattergrams, there are many kids with low grades but high test scores. There are few with high grades but low scores. Things track pretty well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. Maybe now eyes will be opened on the complete lack of standardization of grades. Sure everyone knows this, but it seems like colleges, and by extension some discussion here at DCUM, act as though we can compare them.

Yes, colleges act as though they can compare them, because they can.

Anonymous wrote:While I absolutely believe there is a small subset of very bright kids who have test issues (e.g. w/speed) such that scores do not indicate the status of their academic skills, there is a sense that most kids applying test optional are decent students with great grades but lower scores, and dwarf that group. I don't know how admissions would be able to tell the difference.

Where is your evidence that any of this makes a difference in their performance at the colleges they are admitted to? Because you admit that you "don't know how", without it this is what is known as an argument from ignorance fallacy https://academy4sc.org/video/argument-from-ignorance-cant-prove-a-thing/.

Anonymous wrote:I suppose I'm not a fan of the current test optional environment and wonder how admissions evolves from here, how many highly selective colleges will go back to requiring scores, or de facto requiring whether stated or not.

They will do what they feel they need to do to build the class they want, as they always have.

[Anonymous]

I attended a high school graduation ceremony in flyover country in 2019 and even my senile grandmother noted it appeared the entire school was graduating with honors. Yet if you read the program, seniors in the overall top 25 were undecided, going to community college, and local commuter university. Fake grades are conning parents around the country and public school boards, admins and teacher's unions don't give a damn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I attended a high school graduation ceremony in flyover country in 2019 and even my senile grandmother noted it appeared the entire school was graduating with honors. Yet if you read the program, seniors in the overall top 25 were undecided, going to community college, and local commuter university. Fake grades are conning parents around the country and public school boards, admins and teacher's unions don't give a damn.

You are making huge assumptions in your post, and you have no evidence to support them. You know nothing about the college choices of those students ($$$ is a primary factor in most college decisions) and you have not one testimony from anyone who was "conned" or what that even means.

[Anonymous]

"Test optional is to backdoor URMs with fake grades and low scores; so the scores won’t jeopardize rankings and be used in affirmative action lawsuits."

That's not how it works.

I was an affirmative action admit in the 1980s to a HSY school. I had straight As in the hardest classes my sad high school offered. I also had really impressive ECs. And I scored in the 85% on the SAT, which might not be in the range you'd expect for a kid at my college. But it was high enough to tell the AO that even though I was graduating from a school in a low-income area and my mom only completed 8 years of school, I was clearly super smart if I could manage to score at that level coming from my background. And my essays made it painfully obvious that I was driven and would succeed if they just gave me a chance. That Hamilton line about being young, hungry and scrappy always makes me laugh because it describes me to a T. I did just fine in college and went on to earn a PhD from another HSY school. I have a great job now doing something that contributes to society. That is how affirmative action works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I attended a high school graduation ceremony in flyover country in 2019 and even my senile grandmother noted it appeared the entire school was graduating with honors. Yet if you read the program, seniors in the overall top 25 were undecided, going to community college, and local commuter university. Fake grades are conning parents around the country and public school boards, admins and teacher's unions don't give a damn.

There is nothing wrong with being undecided at 18. Re: community college and local commuter schools, that has to do with a difference in culture. Unlike the DCUM bubble, those schools aren't frowned upon everywhere. Some parents don't make a lot of money or even if they do don't feel pressured into spending $40,000-$80,000 per year for one kid to go to college. I'm not saying there isn't grade inflation, but your proof of it in flyover country doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Test optional is to backdoor URMs with fake grades and low scores; so the scores won’t jeopardize rankings and be used in affirmative action lawsuits."

That's not how it works.

I was an affirmative action admit in the 1980s to a HSY school. I had straight As in the hardest classes my sad high school offered. I also had really impressive ECs. And I scored in the 85% on the SAT, which might not be in the range you'd expect for a kid at my college. But it was high enough to tell the AO that even though I was graduating from a school in a low-income area and my mom only completed 8 years of school, I was clearly super smart if I could manage to score at that level coming from my background. And my essays made it painfully obvious that I was driven and would succeed if they just gave me a chance. That Hamilton line about being young, hungry and scrappy always makes me laugh because it describes me to a T. I did just fine in college and went on to earn a PhD from another HSY school. I have a great job now doing something that contributes to society. That is how affirmative action works.

Agreed and impressive. What's happening now is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at Scattergrams, there are many kids with low grades but high test scores. There are few with high grades but low scores. Things track pretty well.

There are so many students with very high GPAs and low test scores. This is why they are applying test optional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at Scattergrams, there are many kids with low grades but high test scores. There are few with high grades but low scores. Things track pretty well.

There are so many students with very high GPAs and low test scores. This is why they are applying test optional.

This is why SATs matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Test optional is to backdoor URMs with fake grades and low scores; so the scores won’t jeopardize rankings and be used in affirmative action lawsuits."

That's not how it works.

I was an affirmative action admit in the 1980s to a HSY school. I had straight As in the hardest classes my sad high school offered. I also had really impressive ECs. And I scored in the 85% on the SAT, which might not be in the range you'd expect for a kid at my college. But it was high enough to tell the AO that even though I was graduating from a school in a low-income area and my mom only completed 8 years of school, I was clearly super smart if I could manage to score at that level coming from my background. And my essays made it painfully obvious that I was driven and would succeed if they just gave me a chance. That Hamilton line about being young, hungry and scrappy always makes me laugh because it describes me to a T. I did just fine in college and went on to earn a PhD from another HSY school. I have a great job now doing something that contributes to society. That is how affirmative action works.

Agreed and impressive. What's happening now is different.

DP: Not really IMO. Seems same as it ever was except schools now emphasize "first generation" and use programs like Questbridge to more clearly support lower income students (from URM groups and not).
Why do say it's now different and what is your evidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Test optional is to backdoor URMs with fake grades and low scores; so the scores won’t jeopardize rankings and be used in affirmative action lawsuits."

That's not how it works.

I was an affirmative action admit in the 1980s to a HSY school. I had straight As in the hardest classes my sad high school offered. I also had really impressive ECs. And I scored in the 85% on the SAT, which might not be in the range you'd expect for a kid at my college. But it was high enough to tell the AO that even though I was graduating from a school in a low-income area and my mom only completed 8 years of school, I was clearly super smart if I could manage to score at that level coming from my background. And my essays made it painfully obvious that I was driven and would succeed if they just gave me a chance. That Hamilton line about being young, hungry and scrappy always makes me laugh because it describes me to a T. I did just fine in college and went on to earn a PhD from another HSY school. I have a great job now doing something that contributes to society. That is how affirmative action works.

Agreed and impressive. What's happening now is different.

I think it was fine until you perceived that it threatened your kid. No, it is an abomination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at Scattergrams, there are many kids with low grades but high test scores. There are few with high grades but low scores. Things track pretty well.

There are so many students with very high GPAs and low test scores. This is why they are applying test optional.

This is why SATs matter.

how do you figure? if a kid has a very high GPA in a competitive HS, why should they also HAVE to have a high SAT? My DS is an anxious standardized test taker, he literally threw up on the way to one of his APs exams. Also, we cannot afford test prep so everything was done in Khan Academy for free. So the fact that he gets nervous in those situations and we can't afford thousands in test prep should invalidate the fact that he has demonstrated over the course of 11+ years that he is capable of learning and understanding the required material at a high level? I do not think is score is bad, but if I posted it here, you would all say, omg awful should go to a comm college LOL Regardless, most kids with his GPA had a higher SAT/ACT score, but that does not mean he is less prepared or capable in college. In fact he has a 4.0 currently.

Some people are just good standardized test takers, others are not and/or not able to afford the prep that many others can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I attended a high school graduation ceremony in flyover country in 2019 and even my senile grandmother noted it appeared the entire school was graduating with honors. Yet if you read the program, seniors in the overall top 25 were undecided, going to community college, and local commuter university. Fake grades are conning parents around the country and public school boards, admins and teacher's unions don't give a damn.

Maybe, or maybe you misunderstood what it meant. At my HS in flyover country, receiving an "honors diploma" simply meant you had completed a defined set of coursework beyond what was required for a standard diploma. Anyone who took a reasonable course schedule (English, math, social studies for all 4 years, science for 3, language for 2) received it. It wasn't a reflection on your grades in those classes, just that you passed them and earned the credits.

Also, don't confuse your single anecdote with data. Plus, if you looked at this history of those schools, I suspect those college choices were right in line with prior years, so I'm not sure who you think is being "conned" by anything there.