If everyone indeed has a 3.9 or better, there's a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at Scattergrams, there are many kids with low grades but high test scores. There are few with high grades but low scores. Things track pretty well.

There are so many students with very high GPAs and low test scores. This is why they are applying test optional.

This is why SATs matter.

how do you figure? if a kid has a very high GPA in a competitive HS, why should they also HAVE to have a high SAT? My DS is an anxious standardized test taker, he literally threw up on the way to one of his APs exams. Also, we cannot afford test prep so everything was done in Khan Academy for free. So the fact that he gets nervous in those situations and we can't afford thousands in test prep should invalidate the fact that he has demonstrated over the course of 11+ years that he is capable of learning and understanding the required material at a high level? I do not think is score is bad, but if I posted it here, you would all say, omg awful should go to a comm college LOL Regardless, most kids with his GPA had a higher SAT/ACT score, but that does not mean he is less prepared or capable in college. In fact he has a 4.0 currently.

Some people are just good standardized test takers, others are not and/or not able to afford the prep that many others can.

NP. Agree. I guess all adcoms "expect" kids from competitive high schools to have high test scores, but my kid is just like yours - major test anxiety, does terribly on standardized tests. We also aren't super-wealthy, and didn't pay for any test prep or private counselor. She just did her best with Khan Academy.
However, she's very smart and gets good grades in challenging courses. She's applying test optional and letting the chips fall where they may. It'll be interesting to see whether schools mean it when they say they're truly "test optional". I have no doubt most/all of her peers from this school will be submitting high test scores. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal evidence only.

Aaannnddd... this is the moment the post becomes valueless.

Reading is fundamental. The very next sentence in my PP points out that all of higher education understands that grade inflation in college is real, persistent and widespread. I know that you cannot read long things. For others though, here's some data in context:

"The data are definitive: it’s never been easier to get an A at Princeton. A- was the median grade in the 2018-2019 academic year. 55 percent of course grades were in the A-range. In 1998, they were 43 percent of course grades, according to a faculty report I acquired from Mudd Manuscript Library. B-range grades comprised 34 percent, and the C-range comprised six percent. D’s were merely half a percent. A Princetonian’s chance of getting a F was one in a thousand. The remaining four percent went to “passes.”
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/01/the-decline-and-fall-of-grade-deflation


A’s represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and
12 percentage points since 1988. D’s and F’s total typically less than 10% of all letter
grades. Private colleges and universities give, on average, significantly more A’s and B’s
combined than public institutions with equal student selectivity. Southern schools grade
more harshly than those in other regions, and science and engineering-focused schools
grade more stringently than those emphasizing the liberal arts.

At schools with modest selectivity, grading is as generous as it was in the mid-1980s at highly selective schools.
These prestigious schools have, in turn, continued to ramp up their grades. It is likely that
at many selective and highly selective schools, undergraduate GPAs are now so saturated
at the high end that they have little use as a motivator of students and as an evaluation tool
for graduate and professional schools and employers.
-- Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy’s comprehensive 2012 report, “Where A Is
Ordinary: The Evolution of American College and University Grading, 1940–2009.”


There has been a dramatic increase in average grades at colleges and universities in the United States over the past 50 years.
-- -Lehr, Brandon. "Information and Inflation: An Analysis of Grading Behavior" The B.E. Journal of Economic Analysis & Policy, vol. 16, no. 2, 2016, pp. 755-783. https://doi.org/10.1515/bejeap-2015-0138

lol yes reading is fundamental. But you wrote it and lead with that sentence. So, it’s on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal evidence only.

Aaannnddd... this is the moment the post becomes valueless.

Reading is fundamental. The very next sentence in my PP points out that all of higher education understands that grade inflation in college is real, persistent and widespread. I know that you cannot read long things. For others though, here's some data in context:

"The data are definitive: it’s never been easier to get an A at Princeton. A- was the median grade in the 2018-2019 academic year. 55 percent of course grades were in the A-range. In 1998, they were 43 percent of course grades, according to a faculty report I acquired from Mudd Manuscript Library. B-range grades comprised 34 percent, and the C-range comprised six percent. D’s were merely half a percent. A Princetonian’s chance of getting a F was one in a thousand. The remaining four percent went to “passes.”
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/01/the-decline-and-fall-of-grade-deflation


A’s represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and
12 percentage points since 1988. D’s and F’s total typically less than 10% of all letter
grades. Private colleges and universities give, on average, significantly more A’s and B’s
combined than public institutions with equal student selectivity. Southern schools grade
more harshly than those in other regions, and science and engineering-focused schools
grade more stringently than those emphasizing the liberal arts.

At schools with modest selectivity, grading is as generous as it was in the mid-1980s at highly selective schools.
These prestigious schools have, in turn, continued to ramp up their grades. It is likely that
at many selective and highly selective schools, undergraduate GPAs are now so saturated
at the high end that they have little use as a motivator of students and as an evaluation tool
for graduate and professional schools and employers.
-- Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy’s comprehensive 2012 report, “Where A Is
Ordinary: The Evolution of American College and University Grading, 1940–2009.”


There has been a dramatic increase in average grades at colleges and universities in the United States over the past 50 years.
-- -Lehr, Brandon. "Information and Inflation: An Analysis of Grading Behavior" The B.E. Journal of Economic Analysis & Policy, vol. 16, no. 2, 2016, pp. 755-783. https://doi.org/10.1515/bejeap-2015-0138

lol yes reading is fundamental. But you wrote it and lead with that sentence. So, it’s on you.

What does all this matter?

[Anonymous]

Don’t worry. A 3.89 here is keeping it real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry. A 3.89 here is keeping it real.

Thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite videos of all time: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry. A 3.89 here is keeping it real.

+1
3.7 over here. Hey, maybe that makes our kids special?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal evidence only.

Aaannnddd... this is the moment the post becomes valueless.

Reading is fundamental. The very next sentence in my PP points out that all of higher education understands that grade inflation in college is real, persistent and widespread. I know that you cannot read long things. For others though, here's some data in context:

"The data are definitive: it’s never been easier to get an A at Princeton. A- was the median grade in the 2018-2019 academic year. 55 percent of course grades were in the A-range. In 1998, they were 43 percent of course grades, according to a faculty report I acquired from Mudd Manuscript Library. B-range grades comprised 34 percent, and the C-range comprised six percent. D’s were merely half a percent. A Princetonian’s chance of getting a F was one in a thousand. The remaining four percent went to “passes.”
https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2020/01/the-decline-and-fall-of-grade-deflation


A’s represent 43% of all letter grades, an increase of 28 percentage points since 1960 and
12 percentage points since 1988. D’s and F’s total typically less than 10% of all letter
grades. Private colleges and universities give, on average, significantly more A’s and B’s
combined than public institutions with equal student selectivity. Southern schools grade
more harshly than those in other regions, and science and engineering-focused schools
grade more stringently than those emphasizing the liberal arts.

At schools with modest selectivity, grading is as generous as it was in the mid-1980s at highly selective schools.
These prestigious schools have, in turn, continued to ramp up their grades. It is likely that
at many selective and highly selective schools, undergraduate GPAs are now so saturated
at the high end that they have little use as a motivator of students and as an evaluation tool
for graduate and professional schools and employers.
-- Stuart Rojstaczer and Christopher Healy’s comprehensive 2012 report, “Where A Is
Ordinary: The Evolution of American College and University Grading, 1940–2009.”


There has been a dramatic increase in average grades at colleges and universities in the United States over the past 50 years.
-- -Lehr, Brandon. "Information and Inflation: An Analysis of Grading Behavior" The B.E. Journal of Economic Analysis & Policy, vol. 16, no. 2, 2016, pp. 755-783. https://doi.org/10.1515/bejeap-2015-0138

Another possible explanation, though: Colleges now accept a much narrower quality of applicants than they did 20-50 years ago. At selective schools we would expect higher grades and less differentiation. Any rich kid who went to a prep school used to be able to get into one of the ivies--now it is more meritocratic, high performing ivies. So who used to be the top tier at these schools is now the whole student body. There's a lot fewer rich kids with their gentleman C's and whatnot. But that's not because it's gotten easier but rather because the slackers and weaker students aren't getting admitted in the first place anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

Not it isn't. Thousands and thousands of kids take it every year without vomiting. Most only take it once. The test isn't the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

I told DD she should take it easy, no need to be stressed, it’s a test you can retake every month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t worry. A 3.89 here is keeping it real.

+1
3.7 over here. Hey, maybe that makes our kids special?

Or mine 3.6?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

I told DD she should take it easy, no need to be stressed, it’s a test you can retake every month.

If your family has money to burn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

Not it isn't. Thousands and thousands of kids take it every year without vomiting. Most only take it once. The test isn't the problem.

Love how judgmental you are. Somehow I feel you’re likely the parent whose kids no longer speak to them.

Im the one with the kid who has test anxiety. Ds took the SAT and submitted his score, and got into the school he wanted. Not sure why you are picking on my Ds’s story to make some kind of inane point. You can stop now because he does not fit the narrative you’re spinning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and yes he did get As in his APs and all 4 and 5 on his AP tests, including the one he threw up before. Its the pressure of the big TEST the Sat and the ACT.

+1
The pressure of the ACT/SAT is tremendous.

Not it isn't. Thousands and thousands of kids take it every year without vomiting. Most only take it once. The test isn't the problem.

Love how judgmental you are. Somehow I feel you’re likely the parent whose kids no longer speak to them.

Im the one with the kid who has test anxiety. Ds took the SAT and submitted his score, and got into the school he wanted. Not sure why you are picking on my Ds’s story to make some kind of inane point. You can stop now because he does not fit the narrative you’re spinning.

You are projecting, and I said nothing about your child, and I'm sorry if it sounded that way to you. I responded to the bolded idea of pressure coming from the test universally -- the test is not asserting pressure. Different people have different things that cause them anxiety, some to extremes: public speaking, text taking, bridge driving, close spaces, other people, heights. We don't eliminate these things for everyone else because of this.

In too many cases (again, not talking about your child), the pressure of a test comes from subtle and not so subtle messages some kids get about the test. Most kids in the country are not getting that message. But if a parent starts prepping a kid in elementary school, makes them start taking the test in 7th grade, gets them a tutor because the practice score was "too low," buys them three versions of prep book and sets up a Khan Academy account, then pressure is going to build up, and it is not the fault of the test. People around here find it impossible to believe that most people in the country don't put that much stock and pressure into the tests. If a kid feels like a 1540 is not good enough and wants to retake because the only acceptable college is MIT, that pressure is not coming from the test.

[Anonymous]

I love deluded parents claiming AP and SAT exams are fake and mean nothing... but their kid's inflated perfect GPA is a 100% spot on assessment of their kid's genius. lol

And spare us the vomiting, anxiety and whatever other pseudo excuses you can come up with. As if becoming a nervous freak before something important is in any way an asset to a university or a potential employer. Reminds me in the early 90s everyone "barely slept" or "partied" the night before the SAT when explaining their score.

Your child just isn't that special. And I love y'all come over the top to say but but but their college GPA is great, too! As if it's difficult to make straight As in some weak major. Have junior go sit for the LSAT, MCAT, or GMAT and the low score will again expose your kid is just simply not very bright.