2022 PVS JO Qualifying Times - When will they be published?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

[Anonymous]

Echoing the earlier comment: my kid's club swims a championship meet in December, IMX in January, SCY JOs in March (plus the big Florida meet in April) and LCM JOs in July -- and Zones in March and August. So they already do offer lots of championship style meets. Also, he drops on and off a relay team when he ages up, which feels good in that it gives a lot of kids the chance to have relay experience at the big meets. The club also swims multiple relay teams in champs meets, which gives some kids their only chance to qualify. It works out. And, I am saying this as a parent of a late October birthday, arguably one of the spots where you are furthest from any champs meet.

So isn't this what is already happening? Maybe those arguing for holding birthdays like summer league are new to winter swim and don't realize all there is out there.

Have your kid focus on those motivational time standards and buy the t-shirt at whatever meet your kid has the best age for.

[Anonymous]

We are new to year round swim this year - so thanks for the additional insight!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really depends where the region is with Covid. For example, DC made PVS LC champs and Zones this past summer, but they made the cuts such that it was harder to qualify compared to past years- in order to keep numbers down.

Following that rationale, if things are still bad with Covid, cuts will be fast. If things are back to normal, cuts might look more like past years. Way too early to tell.

I didn't even notice they were harder- aren't they usually about a "AA" cut (for 13-14)?

DC region is always harder to qualify because we have too many swimmers. Compare our cut times to other regions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yep, my son has a late January bday and it’s awful for short course champs, unfortunately. However, our team does a fairly big deal December champs (not with QTs though), and long course is slightly better. The best “swim birthdays” are generally August/September. It stinks but generally only matters when they are young.

My kid always ages up just before the first winter meet of the year, which is generally a good thing, but he always makes the A cut for the age group he just left at that first meet. Its like he just needs one more week! Too bad we can't use his preemie-adjusted age, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really depends where the region is with Covid. For example, DC made PVS LC champs and Zones this past summer, but they made the cuts such that it was harder to qualify compared to past years- in order to keep numbers down.

Following that rationale, if things are still bad with Covid, cuts will be fast. If things are back to normal, cuts might look more like past years. Way too early to tell.

I didn't even notice they were harder- aren't they usually about a "AA" cut (for 13-14)?

DC region is always harder to qualify because we have too many swimmers. Compare our cut times to other regions.

This is urban legend. The PVS JO cuts are slower than many LSCs, including neighboring Virginia and Maryland. You can go online and look. Virginia is significantly faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

I want to underscore this parent’s comments and actually go further and say the hard things in swim have actually been so good long-term for my kid -which I can only see now with a high school swimmer. Pushing to make a meet while they are “low age” group (say 11 instead of 12), getting dq’d in an important meet, swimming up in a summer league, early morning practice. Don’t get me wrong, it often hurts your heart at the time and doesn’t always work out (some things don’t, which is a lesson too) but my kid has gotten so much from doing the hard things in swim, character building that I hope will stay with him. Much more than when they made a great time as the oldest in their age group (which you are grateful for too bc it is sure fun for them but also very fleeting).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

But when they are young, if you have a bad JO bday, you also have a bad NCSA bday, as well. That's largely kids who have a birthday from Feb through around the second/ third week in March.

[Anonymous]

Slight hijack here, but this is our first experience with club swim. Are the younger kids, say the 9-12 year olds, actually aware of things like JO cut times and the time standards? Is this something that the coaches talk to them about? I don’t think my kid (9-10 group in one of the big clubs) has any clue about these things, and I feel like that’s for the best, they just care about dropping time and getting more comfortable with the events that aren’t their favorite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slight hijack here, but this is our first experience with club swim. Are the younger kids, say the 9-12 year olds, actually aware of things like JO cut times and the time standards? Is this something that the coaches talk to them about? I don’t think my kid (9-10 group in one of the big clubs) has any clue about these things, and I feel like that’s for the best, they just care about dropping time and getting more comfortable with the events that aren’t their favorite.

if your child isn't now, they will be. Its part of being in one of the bigger clubs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slight hijack here, but this is our first experience with club swim. Are the younger kids, say the 9-12 year olds, actually aware of things like JO cut times and the time standards? Is this something that the coaches talk to them about? I don’t think my kid (9-10 group in one of the big clubs) has any clue about these things, and I feel like that’s for the best, they just care about dropping time and getting more comfortable with the events that aren’t their favorite.

I don't know how your team does it, but when a kid earns a new motivational time patch (let's say A Freestyle), it is presented in front of the group + the kid hangs it on her backpack from then onward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slight hijack here, but this is our first experience with club swim. Are the younger kids, say the 9-12 year olds, actually aware of things like JO cut times and the time standards? Is this something that the coaches talk to them about? I don’t think my kid (9-10 group in one of the big clubs) has any clue about these things, and I feel like that’s for the best, they just care about dropping time and getting more comfortable with the events that aren’t their favorite.

How much they start hearing about it depends on a lot of factors... advanced vs. regular group, coach/club/group philosophy and goals, talking to older kids/siblings, when kids in the group start getting close to or achieving a cut...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

But when they are young, if you have a bad JO bday, you also have a bad NCSA bday, as well. That's largely kids who have a birthday from Feb through around the second/ third week in March.

But then you have a good summer champs/LC Zone & Dec champs birthday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

But when they are young, if you have a bad JO bday, you also have a bad NCSA bday, as well. That's largely kids who have a birthday from Feb through around the second/ third week in March.

But then you have a good summer champs/LC Zone & Dec champs birthday.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

Not a summer example, but my kid is in the JO results someone linked above with a zones cut. His 11th birthday was between JOs and the first day of zones, so actually he did not qualify. (Perfect example of a great JO birthday!) But, you know this all season long. These kids focus on JOs and maybe NCSA age group champs or another meet depending on which the club travels to and the dates of that meet.

I would argue that the kid with an early March birthday is training for those 11yo JO cuts all season because those are the goals. It's tough and in those younger years, it means they may not qualify for JOs at the bottom of the age group, but that's ok, there's another meet for those kids.

It all shakes out as they age, once they are in HS, it doesn't matter, they are setting goals for specific meets that are by time rather than age. If they are looking to swim in college, they are associated with their graduating class.

But when they are young, if you have a bad JO bday, you also have a bad NCSA bday, as well. That's largely kids who have a birthday from Feb through around the second/ third week in March.

But then you have a good summer champs/LC Zone & Dec champs birthday.

Yup.

Yes for Dec. champs meet, but not to the summer meets. Let's take a kid who ages up to 13 on 3/7. He will be swimming with the 13-14 year olds as a 13 year + 4 months OR as a 14 year old + 4 months...against kids who are anywhere down from 14 and 11.5 months. Meaning, the first year he swims it, it is much less likely he'd make it and the second year, he has a much better shot, but he is still swimming against kids who are nearly 15. Compare that to a kid with a late July, August, September birthday. Those kids:

- Have good JO birthdays (the August kid is 13 and 7 months at the meet)
- Have a good LC Champs (the August kid is 13 and 11 months at the meet)
-Have a good summer swim birthday (the August kid is 13 and 10 months/11 months)