2022 PVS JO Qualifying Times - When will they be published?

[Anonymous]

Makes more sense for a summer situation when the season is short and finite - and not as serious.

"Winter" swimming is actually 11 months of the year so swimming your actual age makes sense. Also, it makes it much easier to see the kids' progress knowing they are not older than they claim to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

[Anonymous]

I don’t agree. Fine for summer, which is fun but not for winter when kids are using these USA motivational times for bugger things. Would be too confusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t agree. Fine for summer, which is fun but not for winter when kids are using these USA motivational times for bugger things. Would be too confusing.

An alternative would be de-emphasizing big “championship level” meets for age groupers, since it seriously limits swimmers who happen to be born the wrong month of the year. It’s clearly demonstrable that the best age group swimmers on average are the oldest in their age division, and some clubs/LSCs focus on one meet above all else -choosing practice groups, relays, etc based around that one meet. This creates an awful relative age effect situation that rewards some kids based on the luck of their birthday and impedes others due to their relative lack of luck in when they were born. It leads to a lot of attrition from the sport. Meets of relatively equal importance scattered throughout the season for young swimmers would be a good alternative. The situation is different for senior swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

They swim the age they were at divisionals. For summer swim, they swim the entire season the age they are on June 1st.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

Don't you see the problems with this? If your cut off is 30 days, that means a kid who is 11 years and 30 days can swim against 9 year olds but a kid 11 years and 31 days can't. I say this as a parent to a kid with a bad, bad swim birthday for JOs (3/9), and while I hate the birthday, the cut off is fair. It is not fair during the summer months where kids born in May are screwed but ones born in June are strongly favored. It should be a hard cut off except for relays (so the teams don't have to change relay teams).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

Don't you see the problems with this? If your cut off is 30 days, that means a kid who is 11 years and 30 days can swim against 9 year olds but a kid 11 years and 31 days can't. I say this as a parent to a kid with a bad, bad swim birthday for JOs (3/9), and while I hate the birthday, the cut off is fair. It is not fair during the summer months where kids born in May are screwed but ones born in June are strongly favored. It should be a hard cut off except for relays (so the teams don't have to change relay teams).

The cutoff is a slippery slope because if you extend it, no matter where you put it there will be those kids that just missed it by a day or a week. I agree with one of the PPs ideas to have more than one meet of JO level importance throughout the season so that kids born in February aren’t perpetually screwed for a meet like JOs. Maybe do JO level meets in October/November and April, to allow for those kids with “bad” birthdays, because it is unfortunate for those kids. My DD swims with several kids who just turned 10 who would probably have multiple JO cuts if for example there was an October or November JO level meet that they could compete in closer to when they are about to age up. I agree it’s not as big of a deal in the summer because it’s more of a relaxed, fun atmosphere (and my DD has a “bad” summer swim birthday) with lots of kids that aren’t club swimmers, so the club kids still shine even if their birthdays are “bad” for summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

Don't you see the problems with this? If your cut off is 30 days, that means a kid who is 11 years and 30 days can swim against 9 year olds but a kid 11 years and 31 days can't. I say this as a parent to a kid with a bad, bad swim birthday for JOs (3/9), and while I hate the birthday, the cut off is fair. It is not fair during the summer months where kids born in May are screwed but ones born in June are strongly favored. It should be a hard cut off except for relays (so the teams don't have to change relay teams).

The cutoff is a slippery slope because if you extend it, no matter where you put it there will be those kids that just missed it by a day or a week. I agree with one of the PPs ideas to have more than one meet of JO level importance throughout the season so that kids born in February aren’t perpetually screwed for a meet like JOs. Maybe do JO level meets in October/November and April, to allow for those kids with “bad” birthdays, because it is unfortunate for those kids. My DD swims with several kids who just turned 10 who would probably have multiple JO cuts if for example there was an October or November JO level meet that they could compete in closer to when they are about to age up. I agree it’s not as big of a deal in the summer because it’s more of a relaxed, fun atmosphere (and my DD has a “bad” summer swim birthday) with lots of kids that aren’t club swimmers, so the club kids still shine even if their birthdays are “bad” for summer.

Club kids don't shine once they are swimming against kids who have hit puberty. A new 9 year old swimming against a kid who is 11 and in puberty has a very, very little chance of making it far (all stars). Same for a new 11 year old swimming against a kid who just turned 13. This is evident when the kids line up and you have one that is 4'5" and one that is 5'6" or one that is 5 feet and one that is 5'11".
Kids who are 8 and under and 15+ are not really affected by summer birthdays as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

Don't you see the problems with this? If your cut off is 30 days, that means a kid who is 11 years and 30 days can swim against 9 year olds but a kid 11 years and 31 days can't. I say this as a parent to a kid with a bad, bad swim birthday for JOs (3/9), and while I hate the birthday, the cut off is fair. It is not fair during the summer months where kids born in May are screwed but ones born in June are strongly favored. It should be a hard cut off except for relays (so the teams don't have to change relay teams).

The cutoff is a slippery slope because if you extend it, no matter where you put it there will be those kids that just missed it by a day or a week. I agree with one of the PPs ideas to have more than one meet of JO level importance throughout the season so that kids born in February aren’t perpetually screwed for a meet like JOs. Maybe do JO level meets in October/November and April, to allow for those kids with “bad” birthdays, because it is unfortunate for those kids. My DD swims with several kids who just turned 10 who would probably have multiple JO cuts if for example there was an October or November JO level meet that they could compete in closer to when they are about to age up. I agree it’s not as big of a deal in the summer because it’s more of a relaxed, fun atmosphere (and my DD has a “bad” summer swim birthday) with lots of kids that aren’t club swimmers, so the club kids still shine even if their birthdays are “bad” for summer.

Club kids don't shine once they are swimming against kids who have hit puberty. A new 9 year old swimming against a kid who is 11 and in puberty has a very, very little chance of making it far (all stars). Same for a new 11 year old swimming against a kid who just turned 13. This is evident when the kids line up and you have one that is 4'5" and one that is 5'6" or one that is 5 feet and one that is 5'11".
Kids who are 8 and under and 15+ are not really affected by summer birthdays as much.

Generally a new 9 year old isn’t swimming against an 11 year old. My kid was a new 9 year old (I’m the May birthday PP) and she had done some stroke and turn but not club at that point, and she was still making A meets and doing well in her strongest stroke simply because a lot of the other kids were summer swim kids only. With just a couple months club swim under her belt at this point (and she’s not a phenom), based on time she will clearly be one of the team’s top summer swimmers even though she will be barely 10 and is average height. On our summer team the top swimmers in all the age groups other than the 8 and unders are club kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

No less rough for a kid whose bday is 5/31 and swimming in the next age group against a kid whose bday is 6/1 who swims in the age group below as one of the very oldest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

There are typically three championship meets a year. One December, one in March and one in July. That balances out the birthdays. I don't see the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Wow, those times seem really easy? Is that typical for this area? We are getting ready to move there but where we are, our “big meet”/championship is a state age group champs and the QT are much faster.

Is your kid young? The times are easy if you’re 10 and under. For my 13 year old boy, the times are closer to a AA than A- -much closer.

Here’s an example:

500 free, 13 yr old boy:

A time: 5:31.39
JO cut: 5:13.69
AA time: 5:17.59

^^A kid needs almost a AA time to qualify for JOs at this age.

10 year olds boy:
JO cut: 6:59.99
A time: 6:37.39
AA time: 6:20.79

^^A 10 year old boy can be more than 20 seconds from an A time and still make the JO cut.

I highly doubt my 9 year old will swim a 500 free in the next year. I would be totally shocked. I understand give a kid that age a wide berth. They should probably make JOs just for finishing. LOL!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Thanks for posting! Can I ask a dumb question. I have a 9 year old who turns 10 in January. Does he have a “bad” birthday for this? Like - this year is his only year to qualify as 10 & under because if he does it next year - even if he swam it while 10 - he would be 11 by the time of the meet?

Sorry it this question does make sense. But I hope you understand what I’m trying to ask. Thanks!

Yeah, my daughter has a late December birthday and her swim friend has a late march birthday. The December birthday is a little frustrating when it comes to JOs. The March birthday friend has a sweet deal!

sorry, I am not following - which month is the "best" birthday then, what are the rules for age, is it calendar based ie calendar year, or is it how old you are on the day of the actual meet? So in theory you would change age groups mid swim season? Thanks

The “best” birthday depends on what meet you’re focusing on. For JOs, yeah a birthday in January or February is not ideal. But for say summer swim and the summer long course meets, a spring birthday is not ideal. My DC has a May birthday and while that is fine for JOs, it is not great for summer swim/long course.

I actually disagree (and have a kid with a late fall birthday so not particularly good for either SCY or LCM). By the time they are 13/14 (and maybe even 12), it all shakes out. She ends up competing against different kids at different points in the year. And it bugs me a bit for summer that some kids are swimming an age below their actual age. I think swim the exact age you are at a meet feels fair.

Yes, I think this is a big issue in swimming and wish USAS would use cutoff dates like most sports - something like Jan 1 for SC champs and July 1 for long course champs, so that kids who are training and competing with their age group all season could actually participate in the season-ending meet.

DD went to a birthday party last year between divisionals and all stars. I can't imagine how rough it would be on a kid to make all stars and then lose the spot before the meet even occurs.

But that’s exactly what happens to kids in USA (year round) swimming. They work hard all season as a 10 year old to qualify for champs and then lose the spot if they have a birthday the week before the meet. That’s why a cutoff would be better.

So you think kids should be able to swim 9-10 JOs at 11 years old?

If they turned 11 within the month or so before the meet, yes. They trained and competed (and qualified) all season as a 10 year old. It is the same concept as a June 1st cutoff for summer swim.

Don't you see the problems with this? If your cut off is 30 days, that means a kid who is 11 years and 30 days can swim against 9 year olds but a kid 11 years and 31 days can't. I say this as a parent to a kid with a bad, bad swim birthday for JOs (3/9), and while I hate the birthday, the cut off is fair. It is not fair during the summer months where kids born in May are screwed but ones born in June are strongly favored. It should be a hard cut off except for relays (so the teams don't have to change relay teams).

The cutoff is a slippery slope because if you extend it, no matter where you put it there will be those kids that just missed it by a day or a week. I agree with one of the PPs ideas to have more than one meet of JO level importance throughout the season so that kids born in February aren’t perpetually screwed for a meet like JOs. Maybe do JO level meets in October/November and April, to allow for those kids with “bad” birthdays, because it is unfortunate for those kids. My DD swims with several kids who just turned 10 who would probably have multiple JO cuts if for example there was an October or November JO level meet that they could compete in closer to when they are about to age up. I agree it’s not as big of a deal in the summer because it’s more of a relaxed, fun atmosphere (and my DD has a “bad” summer swim birthday) with lots of kids that aren’t club swimmers, so the club kids still shine even if their birthdays are “bad” for summer.

Yes I agree with this approach - maybe have a fall and spring JOs or something!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:here they are:

https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-jo-qualifying-times.pdf

Wow, those times seem really easy? Is that typical for this area? We are getting ready to move there but where we are, our “big meet”/championship is a state age group champs and the QT are much faster.

Is your kid young? The times are easy if you’re 10 and under. For my 13 year old boy, the times are closer to a AA than A- -much closer.

Here’s an example:

500 free, 13 yr old boy:

A time: 5:31.39
JO cut: 5:13.69
AA time: 5:17.59

^^A kid needs almost a AA time to qualify for JOs at this age.

10 year olds boy:
JO cut: 6:59.99
A time: 6:37.39
AA time: 6:20.79

^^A 10 year old boy can be more than 20 seconds from an A time and still make the JO cut.

I highly doubt my 9 year old will swim a 500 free in the next year. I would be totally shocked. I understand give a kid that age a wide berth. They should probably make JOs just for finishing. LOL!!

Here’s a 9 year old who swam the 500 free and got an aaa time at jos:

https://www.pvswim.org/1718meet/18-66rw.html