Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of speculation and theories in favor of the flusher, we don't the whole story, what is her defense? Is it bills, payment concerns, was she intoxicated, scared, ignorance? No one was there and that's why we have a trial to find out and ensure justice is served. She can also sue the hospital if needed.

Her defense is that it is not a crime to dispose of a fetus. Women flush fetuses all the time.

No the defense is that it was a miscarriage not a still born. The prosecution has not proved the fetus was 22 weeks. If the fetus is < 22 weeks it is a miscarriage.

There is no law in Ohio that establishes when a dead fetus - that the woman didn't intentionally kill - is a fetus or a still born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of speculation and theories in favor of the flusher, we don't the whole story, what is her defense? Is it bills, payment concerns, was she intoxicated, scared, ignorance? No one was there and that's why we have a trial to find out and ensure justice is served. She can also sue the hospital if needed.

If abortion wasn’t banned, they wouldn’t have sent her home from the hospital. They would have performed an abortion. Because Ohio lawmakers want to punish women for having sex, she was denied necessary treatment, and is now being prosecuted for dealing with it on her own.

I don’t agree with what the woman did, but I do agree that the above was a huge factor in what happened and had she lived in, say, Maryland, it never would have happened the way it did. There are all sorts of unintended consequences to this crusade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are lawmakers so crazy in Ohio? This is the same state where a bill was introduced in 2019 that would require doctors to take an ectopic pregnancy and reimplant it inside the uterus, or face charges. This, of course, is not medically possible.

I’m now understanding why my kids use “Ohio” as an adjective to make fun of stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m realizing there are people who think she had the miscarriage somewhere in the house and then moved it to the toilet. They don’t understand that she was sitting on the toilet when she expelled the remains.

*And* there was probably so much blood and fecal matter in the toilet that she likely couldn’t even see the fetus.

All these arm-chair Aunt Lydias with no idea of what this would have been like (after getting turned away from the hospital TWICE) and no empathy are awful.

I know exactly what it's like. It is very easy to see a 20-week baby. I held mine.

Did you deliver it in a hospital or in a toilet bowl full of bodily fluids? Also, we have no idea when the fetus stopped growing in this case and what shape it was in upon delivery.

Look I’m somewhat reluctantly pro choice (as in I do believe an unborn child is a life, but I also recognize the complexities of the world and think the issue is too complicated to be legislated). I also am repelled at the thought of an almost human life that once had a heartbeat ending up in a toilet.

But the point of failure here was when this woman was turned away twice. This could have been managed with dignity in a hospital bed with proper supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you imagine being the paramedics called to reapond if the woman had told them I just miscarried into the toilet — the fetal remains are there for you. I do not think any paramedic would have been happy to fish those out. It is really unclear to me what they expect you to do here. I had a d and c for my miscarriage (because my doctor, while a practicing Catholic, is not an insane sadist) and I still had clots the size of golf balls coming out. It’s all gross.

Not my problem. They can call the cops who can call a cororner or undertaker or whatever they do.

But I agree, we ought to start calling them more and let them "fish those out".

I hope every woman in Ohio who so much as has a late period calls 911 asking for assistance disposing of whatever potential cells exit their body at home. Just to be safe ya know. Give the government officials what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m realizing there are people who think she had the miscarriage somewhere in the house and then moved it to the toilet. They don’t understand that she was sitting on the toilet when she expelled the remains.

*And* there was probably so much blood and fecal matter in the toilet that she likely couldn’t even see the fetus.

All these arm-chair Aunt Lydias with no idea of what this would have been like (after getting turned away from the hospital TWICE) and no empathy are awful.

I know exactly what it's like. It is very easy to see a 20-week baby. I held mine.

Your experience is not universal. My mom miscarried on the way to the hospital at 21 weeks. It did not look like a baby. As another pp mentioned, the sight of the miscarriage was traumatizing.

If you were fortunate enough to miscarry a fetus that looked like a baby and were able to have it cleaned and wrapped up to hold, please consider that it may be a better outcome than others in a similar situation. Find some empathy and understanding that your experience does not reflect another’s experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of speculation and theories in favor of the flusher, we don't the whole story, what is her defense? Is it bills, payment concerns, was she intoxicated, scared, ignorance? No one was there and that's why we have a trial to find out and ensure justice is served. She can also sue the hospital if needed.

Her defense is that it is not a crime to dispose of a fetus. Women flush fetuses all the time.

No the defense is that it was a miscarriage not a still born. The prosecution has not proved the fetus was 22 weeks. If the fetus is < 22 weeks it is a miscarriage.

There is no law in Ohio that establishes when a dead fetus - that the woman didn't intentionally kill - is a fetus or a still born.

Wrong. Ohio law says 22 weeks is a stillborn, 20 weeks is a miscarriage. Oddly they don’t define 20-22 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t “don’t flush a corpse” common knowledge? I mean it’s not a goldfish it’s a human.

My “common knowledge “ doesn’t cover miscarriages or stillbirths outside of a hospital setting.
Since yours apparently does, please describe, in as detailed a way as you can manage, what exactly “common knowledge “ would have someone do in this situation.

I would probably call 911 and ask for help, and follow their instructions. But I get that after going through something traumatic and being turned away from from the hospital, the poor woman was in shock, and didn’t know what to do.

Really, common sense doesn’t tell you not to add a dead baby to the public water supply? It was apparently large enough that she tried plunging it and it didn’t go down so we’re not talking about just a large glob of cells…

Common sense also tells you that if the fetus is too large to flush, the woman should have been admitted to the hospital and cared for there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are lawmakers so crazy in Ohio? This is the same state where a bill was introduced in 2019 that would require doctors to take an ectopic pregnancy and reimplant it inside the uterus, or face charges. This, of course, is not medically possible.

I’m now understanding why my kids use “Ohio” as an adjective to make fun of stuff.

Yup Ohio is the new Kentucky…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are lawmakers so crazy in Ohio? This is the same state where a bill was introduced in 2019 that would require doctors to take an ectopic pregnancy and reimplant it inside the uterus, or face charges. This, of course, is not medically possible.

I’m now understanding why my kids use “Ohio” as an adjective to make fun of stuff.

Yup Ohio is the new Kentucky…

Don’t you mean Florida?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of speculation and theories in favor of the flusher, we don't the whole story, what is her defense? Is it bills, payment concerns, was she intoxicated, scared, ignorance? No one was there and that's why we have a trial to find out and ensure justice is served. She can also sue the hospital if needed.

“Justice” for who, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Justice would be suing the hospital that turned her away.

[Anonymous]

Justice would be these charges getting dropped, Republicans getting voted out of office in Ohio, and the law permitting unfettered abortion access prior to viability, with exceptions for the *health* as well as the life of the mother or fetal anomalies after viability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m realizing there are people who think she had the miscarriage somewhere in the house and then moved it to the toilet. They don’t understand that she was sitting on the toilet when she expelled the remains.

*And* there was probably so much blood and fecal matter in the toilet that she likely couldn’t even see the fetus.

All these arm-chair Aunt Lydias with no idea of what this would have been like (after getting turned away from the hospital TWICE) and no empathy are awful.

I know exactly what it's like. It is very easy to see a 20-week baby. I held mine.

You know what it's like to birth a 20-22 week fetus into a toilet filled with water, poop, blood, and everything else? You know exactly what it's like? I doubt it.

I can't believe a person could be so far up their own ass they don't understand the difference between being prettily handed a blanket-wrapped 20 week stillborn birthed at the hospital with medical assistance, and fishing a fetus out of a toilet that was already dead and decomposing at best and totally mangled from unassisted labor and travel through the birth canal. This wasn't a cute impossibly tiny baby plopped into a toilet bowl of clear water. It was a Cambell's chunky soup of blood, sh*t, and tissue with the fetus floating somewhere in it. Maybe recognizable, probably not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are lawmakers so crazy in Ohio? This is the same state where a bill was introduced in 2019 that would require doctors to take an ectopic pregnancy and reimplant it inside the uterus, or face charges. This, of course, is not medically possible.

I’m now understanding why my kids use “Ohio” as an adjective to make fun of stuff.

Yup Ohio is the new Kentucky…

Don’t you mean Florida?

When I was a kid growing up in the Midwest, the ultimate insult was to add “-tucky” on the end, e.g., Pennsyltucky