Airplane noise concerns overblown?
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Anonymous
| Does anyone have an idea if DARIC-ABCX will be used for northflow operations? |
Anonymous
Anyone? |
Anonymous
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Honestly, it’s immaterial.
They are pinning a hope on more flying over the river and less over the houses under ideal conditions for the landing aircraft only. The biggest noise is the departing aircraft. That will stay over the houses and go upwards of 400 aircraft per day. They can’t go over DC since it’s bounded by no fly zones (2) and VA/MD over the river won’t let them. So I’d bail ship from the Palisades But people are so desperate they’ll take any glimmer of false hope That’s my reading of it |
Anonymous
There are two flight procedures for two different weather patterns and two upcoming changes for the Palisades: #1 Bad weather - pilots will be encouraged to fly more over the river and less over Palisades (in bad weather they often fly directly over Palisades) #2 Normal weather - the new flight path (not the flight path used in bad weather) will be more over the center of the river and closer to Palisades and less over Virginia It almost looks as if the media reports were intended to confuse you by conflating these two issues. Palisades representatives had no choice but to agree to #2 to get #1. They were told take it or leave it. I agree on the departures. |
Anonymous
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All of what you said is only for the landings which are quieter anyway. I don’t think it’s a big change even in that, more of a “take the edge off”, sometimes, type of a thing.
That still leaves 400+ much louder airplanes directly right overhead with no recourse at all. To me this is all a the house is being destroyed by flood from the burst mains but at least we don’t have all the sprinklers pointing at it at the same time. You should still move in my opinion |
Anonymous
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It's a beautiful day off of MacArthur, the wind is blowing, the planes are flying, and really living here in my fin de siecle home is wonderful.
Enjoy living in a McManshion somewhere with your 2000ppm CO2. |
Anonymous
| How does this impact the VA / Arlington side of the Potomac? More noise? Less noise? Same noise? |
Anonymous
You can always reach out to the members of the Community Noise Working Group from Arlington who had to vote for it one way or another and they will definitely know the answer. Please post their reply here. https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-07/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_July%2030%202024.pdf |
Anonymous
Not for long according to the latest science. BTW people posting here live in properly posh DC areas not “off Macarthur” |
Anonymous
More. It’s a zero sum game. The more planes you push toward Palisades the better for you. The good news is they have a mouse for a Council Rep, and just really no organization at all. Buckley tries but most of them won’t even admit they have a problem lest the buyers hear about it. (Buyers know, but for the odd sucker) |
Anonymous
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A great article. Also says Arlington is allied with Montgomery County on the issue v DC
https://www.arlnow.com/2022/02/03/county-officials-are-not-optimistic-feds-will-get-on-board-with-aircraft-noise-recommendations/ |
Anonymous
This procedure if implemented would have destroyed Bethesda, specifically all the beautiful neighborhoods along the Potomac River like Westmoreland Hills, Glen Echo Heights, Brookmont, Sumner, Glen Echo etc. The airplanes would shift to the east and the turn that is currently north of Glen Echo would be much closer to Glen Echo. Thank God the residents of Palisades and Bethesda overwhelmingly rejected this plan. The Potomac River is so narrow north of the airport that it makes no sense to talk about any meaningful noise abatement for the noisy north flow operations just by shifting the flight path to the center of the river especially if it moves it closer to a densely populated community. Unfortunately, some on the Noise Working Group at DCA keep peddling this idea ad nauseam irrespective of everything else. |
Anonymous
| So true |
Anonymous
If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos): 2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote. Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness. Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density. Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal). The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after. https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible. 2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA. As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often. 2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights. https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI. Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024. |
Anonymous
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Here’s the full account. Don’t buy or live under a flight path. Not in the Palisades not in Foxhall, Berkeley or Kent, not in MD, not in VA not anywhere.
It’s bad for your health, for your kids, for you resale values and for whether one day you can sell at all. |