Missionaries should be banned

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tying preaching to any kind of humanitarian aid should be banned. If you can't help without preaching then stay home.

Like you! Staying home is your favorite!

Your mommy says it's bed time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op: what country are you originally from?

what was your experience with missionaries?

do you donate your time to working as a secular aid worker now?

Why do you think communist countries and countries under Sharia law ban, imprison, or kill missionaries, and why do you think that’s ok?

DP. Would you permit me to add:

What do you propose should replace the banned missionary work, given that several here have said secular aid doesn’t always exist in rural or dangerous places? (On a related note, why do you continue to maintain those pp’s were lying?) Should poor people just go without food and medical aid? (Said from the comfort of your warm couch, as you pour a third glass of Malbec.)

Why do you think poor people—in third world countries or Appalachia—are incapable of making their own decisions? (You’ve been asked this at least 20 times, still no real answer.)

I’ve been asked this. And I’ve answered multiple times.

But I’m not OP.

Supposing that’s true (which it’s not).

Care to answer the other questions about your personal experience with missionaries, whether you provide any help other than writing a check, how you think poor people will get on in places where you’ve banned missionaries and secular groups don’t go, and the rest?

There are multiple people posting so maybe you confused me with other posters.

- I'm not OP.
- I've recently addressed the question about "poor people making decisions". Again.
- I know people who were missionaries and they've shared a lot about their experiences.
- I donate globally and volunteer locally.
- I haven't said I wanted to ban missionaries. Only that missionaries shouldn't proselytize during vulnerable situations. Don't mix service & verbal persuasion.
- I didn't say people lied about presence of secular aid.
- I did ask why can't missionaries provide the same aid without religion - as a secular organization.
- I think people are capable of making their own decisions.
- I think it's unethical to try to persuade people when they are vulnerable and there is a power imbalance.
- I think killing is bad.
- I think people breaking the law in other countries do so at their own risk.
- I think countries should be able to make their own decisions about religion and missionaries - via democratic process.

For example, if Israel officially did ban missionaries (they haven't but considered it) - that would be their right if done democratically.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9707/08/israel.missionaries/index.html

Why don’t you volunteer globally like religious missionaries do? What’s stopping you from providing secular aid to people in need in the 3rd world?

I do volunteer locally with a group that supports refugees. With young kids it's tough to get away. Plus, I don't have language skills or special skills that some organizations really need. So financial support seems to work best for now.

After we retire, we plan to move to DH's home country to help an organization we've supported remotely for many years.


And I've never said to _ban_ missionaries. Keep the aid. Lose the proselytizing in vulnerable situations.

I am sure the nations of the world will hop to it, not. Those who can will do so. You can stay home and comfy and make excuses.

I feel comfortable with my current contributions, thanks.

So would missionaries still volunteer if only secular options were available?

Yeah, other people are doing the hard stuff. While you whine.

But would they do the hard stuff if they didn't have strings attached?

your posts show it’s extremely hard to be a missionary, so hard you cannot do it.

no one here has shown that any missionaries withhold or deny food or medical care or any type of aid based on religious status. There are no strings.

Mission work is hard. My worst experience was working with Kurdish people in Northern Iraq while Saddam was still in power. The living conditions were brutal. A few days after we left the camp we had been working in, Iraqi forces killed most if not all of the people on that camp. It was heartbreaking. People like you should really be quiet and know their own limitations, and keep whining to a minimum.

It would certainly be easier if I didn't have little kids.

The "strings" are being allowed to proselytize. Those who will only go as part of a religious organization to earn heaven points.

Were you legally doing missionary work in Iraq? Did your presence draw in the Iraqi forces? How much were you really "helping" them?

you are incredibly cruel and I have to say, a very ignorant person. Something is not right. People cannot be so casually cruel that they deny desperate people help and aid, especially while they openly admit to not helping.

I help. But I don't illegally go to other countries to "help". And I don't have ulterior motives. Did those people even want missionaries there?

And for the 1,000,000th time, I don't want to deny aid. Just separate it from religious objectives.

DP. For the 1,000,000th time, a lot of “proselytizing” these days is done by example. And you still have zero proof that missionaries withhold aid.

Yet here you are on your high horse demanding that religiously-affiliated aid be banned from people who desperately need it. What’s wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:op: what country are you originally from?

what was your experience with missionaries?

do you donate your time to working as a secular aid worker now?

Why do you think communist countries and countries under Sharia law ban, imprison, or kill missionaries, and why do you think that’s ok?

DP. Would you permit me to add:

What do you propose should replace the banned missionary work, given that several here have said secular aid doesn’t always exist in rural or dangerous places? (On a related note, why do you continue to maintain those pp’s were lying?) Should poor people just go without food and medical aid? (Said from the comfort of your warm couch, as you pour a third glass of Malbec.)

Why do you think poor people—in third world countries or Appalachia—are incapable of making their own decisions? (You’ve been asked this at least 20 times, still no real answer.)

I’ve been asked this. And I’ve answered multiple times.

But I’m not OP.

Supposing that’s true (which it’s not).

Care to answer the other questions about your personal experience with missionaries, whether you provide any help other than writing a check, how you think poor people will get on in places where you’ve banned missionaries and secular groups don’t go, and the rest?

There are multiple people posting so maybe you confused me with other posters.

- I'm not OP.
- I've recently addressed the question about "poor people making decisions". Again.
- I know people who were missionaries and they've shared a lot about their experiences.
- I donate globally and volunteer locally.
- I haven't said I wanted to ban missionaries. Only that missionaries shouldn't proselytize during vulnerable situations. Don't mix service & verbal persuasion.
- I didn't say people lied about presence of secular aid.
- I did ask why can't missionaries provide the same aid without religion - as a secular organization.
- I think people are capable of making their own decisions.
- I think it's unethical to try to persuade people when they are vulnerable and there is a power imbalance.
- I think killing is bad.
- I think people breaking the law in other countries do so at their own risk.
- I think countries should be able to make their own decisions about religion and missionaries - via democratic process.

For example, if Israel officially did ban missionaries (they haven't but considered it) - that would be their right if done democratically.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9707/08/israel.missionaries/index.html

Why don’t you volunteer globally like religious missionaries do? What’s stopping you from providing secular aid to people in need in the 3rd world?

I do volunteer locally with a group that supports refugees. With young kids it's tough to get away. Plus, I don't have language skills or special skills that some organizations really need. So financial support seems to work best for now.

After we retire, we plan to move to DH's home country to help an organization we've supported remotely for many years.


And I've never said to _ban_ missionaries. Keep the aid. Lose the proselytizing in vulnerable situations.

I am sure the nations of the world will hop to it, not. Those who can will do so. You can stay home and comfy and make excuses.

I feel comfortable with my current contributions, thanks.

So would missionaries still volunteer if only secular options were available?

Yeah, other people are doing the hard stuff. While you whine.

But would they do the hard stuff if they didn't have strings attached?

your posts show it’s extremely hard to be a missionary, so hard you cannot do it.

no one here has shown that any missionaries withhold or deny food or medical care or any type of aid based on religious status. There are no strings.

Mission work is hard. My worst experience was working with Kurdish people in Northern Iraq while Saddam was still in power. The living conditions were brutal. A few days after we left the camp we had been working in, Iraqi forces killed most if not all of the people on that camp. It was heartbreaking. People like you should really be quiet and know their own limitations, and keep whining to a minimum.

It would certainly be easier if I didn't have little kids.

The "strings" are being allowed to proselytize. Those who will only go as part of a religious organization to earn heaven points.

Were you legally doing missionary work in Iraq? Did your presence draw in the Iraqi forces? How much were you really "helping" them?

you are incredibly cruel and I have to say, a very ignorant person. Something is not right. People cannot be so casually cruel that they deny desperate people help and aid, especially while they openly admit to not helping.

I help. But I don't illegally go to other countries to "help". And I don't have ulterior motives. Did those people even want missionaries there?

And for the 1,000,000th time, I don't want to deny aid. Just separate it from religious objectives.

DP. For the 1,000,000th time, a lot of “proselytizing” these days is done by example. And you still have zero proof that missionaries withhold aid.

Yet here you are on your high horse demanding that religiously-affiliated aid be banned from people who desperately need it. What’s wrong with you?

Are you incapable of posting honestly?

I never said they withhold aid. And I never said to deny aid or ban missionaries.

[Anonymous]

Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I saw how a group made people pray and read literature before feeding them. It was just wrong. They needed the food and were forced into doing something against their traditional practices in order to get it.

This is so unethical.

I was also a Peace Corps volunteer in Muslim Africa and this is exactly what the Christian missionaries did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

Indeed. When I was a Peace Corps volunteer in a Muslim country in Africa missionaries would prey upon teenagers going through crises. If they managed to convert them, the teenagers would be left with no future in this society run by Muslim extended family. Missionaries are evil and cruel. They live well in starving countries, much better and in more lavish homes than they could back home, and think that they’re gaining points in Heaven by ruining the lives of young Africans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

If feeding people is a form of proselytizing with deeds, are you advocating withholding food from people who are starving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

If feeding people is a form of proselytizing with deeds, are you advocating withholding food from people who are starving?

No, we are condemning withholding food unless the hungry change to your religion. We are advocating feeding people regardless of their religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I saw how a group made people pray and read literature before feeding them. It was just wrong. They needed the food and were forced into doing something against their traditional practices in order to get it.

This is so unethical.

I was also a Peace Corps volunteer in Muslim Africa and this is exactly what the Christian missionaries did.

Just so I know where to donate money or not donate money: Did anyone in this thread ever run into Jewish World Service folks? If so, were they reasonably nice and effective, or were they jerks, too?

Also: If you wanted to help poor people or people affected by catastrophes in those countries, where would you send the money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

If feeding people is a form of proselytizing with deeds, are you advocating withholding food from people who are starving?

No, we are condemning withholding food unless the hungry change to your religion. We are advocating feeding people regardless of their religious beliefs.

That.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

Even if you know that the people don't share your beliefs, and actually hold a different faith?

If feeding people is a form of proselytizing with deeds, are you advocating withholding food from people who are starving?

No, we are condemning withholding food unless the hungry change to your religion. We are advocating feeding people regardless of their religious beliefs.

That.

“That” is a big load of nothing. Lots of missionaries already do exactly that. Yet OP wants to ban all missionaries. Can you explain your cognitive dissonance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I saw how a group made people pray and read literature before feeding them. It was just wrong. They needed the food and were forced into doing something against their traditional practices in order to get it.

This is so unethical.

I was also a Peace Corps volunteer in Muslim Africa and this is exactly what the Christian missionaries did.

Just so I know where to donate money or not donate money: Did anyone in this thread ever run into Jewish World Service folks? If so, were they reasonably nice and effective, or were they jerks, too?

Also: If you wanted to help poor people or people affected by catastrophes in those countries, where would you send the money?

Jewish World Service, which I knew in the Peace Corps, was entirely different. They were completely different from the missionaries. They weren’t missionaries. They didn’t convert people to Judaism. They never even tried to. They merely helped the hungry. They never tried to encourage people to become Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

When I went through surgery I was clearly advised not to undertake a life altering decisions, sign any contracts etc during my recuperation. They considered that a period when my mind was not completely aware - its absolutely a vulnerable time. If your god and gospel is so weak that it needs the most vulnerable time to convert people, then its not really much of a faith. If you are unable to convince a person in the best and strongest moments of their lives, that your faith is worth converting to, then its not a faith, as much as its a cult. Only cults prey on people's vulnerabilities - irrespective of the belief system they claim. That includes Evangelicals, Scientologists, and Osho believers.