Missionaries should be banned

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a type of American Christian missionary that simply baffles me. I am a teacher in Germany at an international school. At our school, we had an American man teaching I for several years. He was a Christian missionary, and his church or organisation at home in America paid for his family to have a huge apartment here in Germany, much bigger than any other teacher’s family needed. His wife did not work, and they had four children, so hardly a massive brood. When he decided to go back to America, he continued to contact all of his former high school students to ask them for money donations so that his family could move to their next “missionary post”, which was going to be another lovely town in Germany.

I do not understand. Yes, he was a nice man, but I don’t think his constant attempts to convert his wealthy, white European students to his brand of Southern evangelical Christianity was worth his church paying for his luxe apartment and his family’s keep (his teaching salary would have supported the family just fine, on a more modest scale here). And almost anywhere you go in our town, you are walking distance from at least one church. I guess he doesn’t think Lutheran and Catholic Churches are the “right” kind of Christianity.

But I would have a hell of a lot more respect for this man if he was trying to spread his religion in a region of the world where some version of the religion doesn’t already exist. So, not in Europe.

We used to have mormon kids knock on our door at our previous address. I would question them on why they felt they needed to proselytize fellow Christians. Eventually they stopped coming to our house, lol.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you like human rights and believe in the dignity of all human beings, thank Christianity.

so the evangelicals and christian right were supportive of the civil rights movement? how about advocacy and recognition of equal rights and basic decency for the LGBTQ+ community?

you are so full of sh*t.

You think it’s better for gays in atheist Russia or China? Several church denominations have women and gay priests.

as a POC, I have dealt with racism first hand and the absolute worst ones were bible thumping "good southern christians" (I spent over a decade living all over the deep south - Atlanta, NO, Houston, Louisville).

You’ve never met racists from other countries then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like human rights and believe in the dignity of all human beings, thank Christianity.

so the evangelicals and christian right were supportive of the civil rights movement? how about advocacy and recognition of equal rights and basic decency for the LGBTQ+ community?

you are so full of sh*t.

You think it’s better for gays in atheist Russia or China? Several church denominations have women and gay priests.

as a POC, I have dealt with racism first hand and the absolute worst ones were bible thumping "good southern christians" (I spent over a decade living all over the deep south - Atlanta, NO, Houston, Louisville).

You’ve never met racists from other countries then.

PP - are you a POC speaking from experience? or are you just defending "good southern" American racists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like human rights and believe in the dignity of all human beings, thank Christianity.

so the evangelicals and christian right were supportive of the civil rights movement? how about advocacy and recognition of equal rights and basic decency for the LGBTQ+ community?

you are so full of sh*t.

You think it’s better for gays in atheist Russia or China? Several church denominations have women and gay priests.

as a POC, I have dealt with racism first hand and the absolute worst ones were bible thumping "good southern christians" (I spent over a decade living all over the deep south - Atlanta, NO, Houston, Louisville).

You’ve never met racists from other countries then.

of course I have (I have a job where I travel to all corners of the globe). while there certainly are racists in every culture and from every religious background, the most in-your-face obvious racism I have encountered have been in "white Christian countries" (particularly former eastern European block).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like human rights and believe in the dignity of all human beings, thank Christianity.

so the evangelicals and christian right were supportive of the civil rights movement? how about advocacy and recognition of equal rights and basic decency for the LGBTQ+ community?

you are so full of sh*t.

You think it’s better for gays in atheist Russia or China? Several church denominations have women and gay priests.

as a POC, I have dealt with racism first hand and the absolute worst ones were bible thumping "good southern christians" (I spent over a decade living all over the deep south - Atlanta, NO, Houston, Louisville).

You’ve never met racists from other countries then.

of course I have (I have a job where I travel to all corners of the globe). while there certainly are racists in every culture and from every religious background, the most in-your-face obvious racism I have encountered have been in "white Christian countries" (particularly former eastern European block).

You mean peoples who have been atheists since WWII.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree. I’m Jewish and if we can survive for thousands of years without proselytizing, and despite multiple genocides against us, then so can Christians.

Because you hate converts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree. I’m Jewish and if we can survive for thousands of years without proselytizing, and despite multiple genocides against us, then so can Christians.

Because you hate converts.

?? No we don’t. We just don’t believe in proselytizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree. I’m Jewish and if we can survive for thousands of years without proselytizing, and despite multiple genocides against us, then so can Christians.

Because you hate converts.

I am curious, I sense a bit of self pity mingled with pride
Why the need to even mention your religion.

[Anonymous]

As I have gotten older I have changed my views on missionaries. If they are respectful and open to dialogue, I don't see the problem. I am not a religious person but I engage in conversation with those who are respectful.

I have encountered Mormons all over the world. My experience is that they are always polite. When I have told them I am not interested they respect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As I have gotten older I have changed my views on missionaries. If they are respectful and open to dialogue, I don't see the problem. I am not a religious person but I engage in conversation with those who are respectful.

I have encountered Mormons all over the world. My experience is that they are always polite. When I have told them I am not interested they respect that.

They hear that a lot and are trained to react to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have gotten older I have changed my views on missionaries. If they are respectful and open to dialogue, I don't see the problem. I am not a religious person but I engage in conversation with those who are respectful.

I have encountered Mormons all over the world. My experience is that they are always polite. When I have told them I am not interested they respect that.

They hear that a lot and are trained to react to it.

Well, they have yet to convert me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have gotten older I have changed my views on missionaries. If they are respectful and open to dialogue, I don't see the problem. I am not a religious person but I engage in conversation with those who are respectful.

I have encountered Mormons all over the world. My experience is that they are always polite. When I have told them I am not interested they respect that.

They hear that a lot and are trained to react to it.

Well, they have yet to convert me.

That’s because you are not in a vulnerable position relative to them, as the people were actually talking about are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:op: what country are you originally from?

what was your experience with missionaries?

do you donate your time to working as a secular aid worker now?

Why do you think communist countries and countries under Sharia law ban, imprison, or kill missionaries, and why do you think that’s ok?

DP. Would you permit me to add:

What do you propose should replace the banned missionary work, given that several here have said secular aid doesn’t always exist in rural or dangerous places? (On a related note, why do you continue to maintain those pp’s were lying?) Should poor people just go without food and medical aid? (Said from the comfort of your warm couch, as you pour a third glass of Malbec.)

Why do you think poor people—in third world countries or Appalachia—are incapable of making their own decisions? (You’ve been asked this at least 20 times, still no real answer.)

I’ve been asked this. And I’ve answered multiple times.

But I’m not OP.

Supposing that’s true (which it’s not).

Care to answer the other questions about your personal experience with missionaries, whether you provide any help other than writing a check, how you think poor people will get on in places where you’ve banned missionaries and secular groups don’t go, and the rest?

There are multiple people posting so maybe you confused me with other posters.

- I'm not OP.
- I've recently addressed the question about "poor people making decisions". Again.
- I know people who were missionaries and they've shared a lot about their experiences.
- I donate globally and volunteer locally.
- I haven't said I wanted to ban missionaries. Only that missionaries shouldn't proselytize during vulnerable situations. Don't mix service & verbal persuasion.
- I didn't say people lied about presence of secular aid.
- I did ask why can't missionaries provide the same aid without religion - as a secular organization.
- I think people are capable of making their own decisions.
- I think it's unethical to try to persuade people when they are vulnerable and there is a power imbalance.
- I think killing is bad.
- I think people breaking the law in other countries do so at their own risk.
- I think countries should be able to make their own decisions about religion and missionaries - via democratic process.

For example, if Israel officially did ban missionaries (they haven't but considered it) - that would be their right if done democratically.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9707/08/israel.missionaries/index.html

Why don’t you volunteer globally like religious missionaries do? What’s stopping you from providing secular aid to people in need in the 3rd world?

I do volunteer locally with a group that supports refugees. With young kids it's tough to get away. Plus, I don't have language skills or special skills that some organizations really need. So financial support seems to work best for now.

After we retire, we plan to move to DH's home country to help an organization we've supported remotely for many years.


And I've never said to _ban_ missionaries. Keep the aid. Lose the proselytizing in vulnerable situations.

I am sure the nations of the world will hop to it, not. Those who can will do so. You can stay home and comfy and make excuses.

I feel comfortable with my current contributions, thanks.

So would missionaries still volunteer if only secular options were available?

Yeah, other people are doing the hard stuff. While you whine.

But would they do the hard stuff if they didn't have strings attached?

your posts show it’s extremely hard to be a missionary, so hard you cannot do it.

no one here has shown that any missionaries withhold or deny food or medical care or any type of aid based on religious status. There are no strings.

Mission work is hard. My worst experience was working with Kurdish people in Northern Iraq while Saddam was still in power. The living conditions were brutal. A few days after we left the camp we had been working in, Iraqi forces killed most if not all of the people on that camp. It was heartbreaking. People like you should really be quiet and know their own limitations, and keep whining to a minimum.

Nice deflection. Now answer the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on these…

Agree or disagree?
-All missionaries are motivated to serve for religion reasons, varies by religion and individual.
-Some missionaries proselytize with deeds.
-Some missionaries proselytize with words.
-It's unethical to proselytize during vulnerable moments.

Any posters capable of answering honestly?

No. These are the moments to show how God can help. These are the moments to preach. Certainly not unethical.

No. It’s manipulative, cruel and disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you like human rights and believe in the dignity of all human beings, thank Christianity.

so the evangelicals and christian right were supportive of the civil rights movement? how about advocacy and recognition of equal rights and basic decency for the LGBTQ+ community?

you are so full of sh*t.

You think it’s better for gays in atheist Russia or China? Several church denominations have women and gay priests.

as a POC, I have dealt with racism first hand and the absolute worst ones were bible thumping "good southern christians" (I spent over a decade living all over the deep south - Atlanta, NO, Houston, Louisville).

You’ve never met racists from other countries then.

PP - are you a POC speaking from experience? or are you just defending "good southern" American racists?

Ever been to China? Korea?