Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kudos to Jews and Asians and everyone else who has done well in America despite difficulties and prejudice and discrimination. The key thing for many of them was getting out of agricultural and menial labor and being able to own property and own businesses or enter professions that were not controlled by white patronage and have access to good education. You need to understand that it was different for black Americans. Long after slavery ended, the South was an oppressive police state that denied them education, freedom of movement, property rights, voting rights, and really every basic right. Even if they did move from the fields, they were laborers and menial servants. They were only allowed to live where white people did not want to live and only allowed to have jobs working for white people. A black middle class did develop in some cities and states but even they had to be careful to stay in their place. Pretty much every political, legal, financial institution in the U.S. was dedicated to keeping blacks in their place.

Before desegregation blacks could not patronize white businesses, so many black businesses emerged to serve the population. People made it work. Where are these communities now?

And you know what else? In the 40s, where my great-grandfather owned a little business, he and other Jews were often the only ones willing to hire blacks. Just pointing it out, FWIW.

[Anonymous]

Back in the day people got married, had kids and stayed together. Now the dad disappears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most innovation in the last hundred years was Jewish. If you subtract African labor and Jewish innovation, there's not so much for you to brag about as you apparently think.

And most Jewish people are white.

Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.
Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most innovation in the last hundred years was Jewish. If you subtract African labor and Jewish innovation, there's not so much for you to brag about as you apparently think.

And most Jewish people are white.

Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

----------------
Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still OP.

Reflecting on my original proposal, I would make two adjustments, one based on the more recent impact of Jim Crow laws.

1) Southern states with Jim Crow laws up until the 1960's would be required to give "bonus" points to black kids. How this would work, I don't know....but since it would come at the expense of poor whites, there would have to be a time limit - say, 15 years or so.

2) In all states, we could extend the reach - instead of the top 5% getting AA "points," it could be the top 10%. But since money is finite, only the top 5% get the free schooling. So, two tiers.

The beauty of this is that students who enter under AA are not suspect - that they only got in because of their skin color. Now getting in would be a mark of achievement - it means they were such excellent stidents, relative to their peers, that they earned they way to the benefit.

Finally, in order to make this fully race-neutral, there's no need to call it affirmative action. We could call them "National Achievement Scholarships."

THANK YOU. I'm the poster who has been challenging you for days on your original idea to completely eliminate the race aspect. While I don't agree on the specifics (short time limit) but I really appreciate you opening up to acknowledge that Jim Crow and other racism still has lingering effects today.

I would love to have a race-neutral system but I don't think we are there yet. Just look at this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most innovation in the last hundred years was Jewish. If you subtract African labor and Jewish innovation, there's not so much for you to brag about as you apparently think.

And most Jewish people are white.

Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

No American Indian Jews?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problem is, folks, that we’re talking about the white man’s structurally racist education system. Let’s create something else.

Asians seem to succeed under it.

Then again a person with high future time orientation and high impulse control tends to do better in an academic setting. Those attributes aren't evenly distributed across all populations.

The dumb Asians don’t make it to the US, at least among those that emigrated within the last 50 years or so. Even if they did not have a formal education, they had streets smarts or entrepreneurial talents.

I grew up in Southern California and knew a lot of Japanese and Chinese-Americans who could trace their lineage in the US back to the late 1800s. Those kids had all the same issues you see in white and black populations that have been in the US forever: drug abuse, lack of focus on the education, obsession with pop culture/music/sports ahead of studying, truancy, minor crime, etc. Tons of Asian gangs in California, many of whom have lived in the US for a couple generations.

So when you say “Asians have succeeded!” you’re typically talking about a group with a high degree of selection bias. They had to have the money, intelligence, and/or social capital to get to the US in the 20th century. They are dissimilar from those they left behind in their home countries.

No, you are absolutely incorrect. Most of the Asian immigrants in the last 40 years or so (Asians were not allowed to come until the late 1960s) came under the family based immigrant visas not skilled (bachelors degrees or higher) employment based immigrant visas or investor visas. In addition, many refugees from SE Asian countries who came in 1970s and 1980s were definitely not highly educated or had wealth. Many also came under "unskilled worker" category of the employment based immigration and then used family based immigrant visas once they obtained citizenship.

So no, it's absolutely false that most Asian immigrants to US in the last 40-50 years had "money, intelligence, and/or social capital". I would say that most Asians actually go into the opposite category.

y
By that same token, what about the Jews? They certainly had no social capital or money when they arrived en mass veteen 1880 and 1920. They are mostly dirt-poor peasants from Easfern Europe. A generation later their kids were college graduates, and a ge erstion after that, they were doctors and lawyers.

Shouldn’t you all be on 4chan or 8chan or wherever it is that you people go?

Yes, we know you think black people suck. Maybe you even think all “POC” suck, including white Hispanics. Maybe even women.

Why do you insist on demonstrating that you are DBs again and again and again? We already know that.

Dp

If a people who have been oppressed since ancient Egypt and we're nearly genocided away into history can come here and succeed despite 3000 years of being persecuted, anyone can.

Yes, we know there are a few Jewish people on here who hate black people. 4Chan is perfect for you, too!

So why can they succeed when others fail?

AA of Caribbean descent/immigrant origin do well, why might that be?

Please explain why they succeed when others fail.

Systemic rascism doesn't keep them down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

OK, Captain Science! Let's see you give as reference for there being only three races.

(DNA testing shows that most Jews descended from Middle Eastern people and not from Europe.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still OP.

Reflecting on my original proposal, I would make two adjustments, one based on the more recent impact of Jim Crow laws.

1) Southern states with Jim Crow laws up until the 1960's would be required to give "bonus" points to black kids. How this would work, I don't know....but since it would come at the expense of poor whites, there would have to be a time limit - say, 15 years or so.

2) In all states, we could extend the reach - instead of the top 5% getting AA "points," it could be the top 10%. But since money is finite, only the top 5% get the free schooling. So, two tiers.

The beauty of this is that students who enter under AA are not suspect - that they only got in because of their skin color. Now getting in would be a mark of achievement - it means they were such excellent stidents, relative to their peers, that they earned they way to the benefit.

Finally, in order to make this fully race-neutral, there's no need to call it affirmative action. We could call them "National Achievement Scholarships."

THANK YOU. I'm the poster who has been challenging you for days on your original idea to completely eliminate the race aspect. While I don't agree on the specifics (short time limit) but I really appreciate you opening up to acknowledge that Jim Crow and other racism still has lingering effects today.

I would love to have a race-neutral system but I don't think we are there yet. Just look at this thread.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

I did reflect on it all and acknowledge that racism had more of an impact on those in Jim Crow states, and given the relatively recent nature of it, has had lasting impact we still see today. It IS a compromise, though, because it order to make a special allowance based on race for those in Jim Crow states, white people would be negatively impacted - and poor whites deserve a chance too. That is why I believe we need a time-limit.

But even that would have negative impact on those states. I, for example, would move my family (if I lived in the South, which I don't, and was in a sub-$100K HH) to a northern state, so that my kids would have a chance of winning one of the National Achievement Scholarships. If other whites followed, and I wouldn't blame them, there would be less diversification - as in all races - in the Jim Crow states. That's a negative.

Anyway, this is all an academic argument since I don't think a politician would take it on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most innovation in the last hundred years was Jewish. If you subtract African labor and Jewish innovation, there's not so much for you to brag about as you apparently think.

And most Jewish people are white.

Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

No American Indian Jews?

American Indian is not a separate race, and no, I don't think there are Native American Jews, unless some converted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

OK, Captain Science! Let's see you give as reference for there being only three races.

(DNA testing shows that most Jews descended from Middle Eastern people and not from Europe.)

______________
Middle Eastern and European are not "races." They are heritages, or ethnicities.

[Anonymous]

The three races are Causacoid, Mongloid, and Negroid. Along those lines, there are Jewish Causacoids, Jewish Mongloids, and Jewish Negroids.

There is no Jewish race. People who insist on segregating Jews as a separate race are showing their anti-Semitic stripes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The three races are Causacoid, Mongloid, and Negroid. Along those lines, there are Jewish Causacoids, Jewish Mongloids, and Jewish Negroids.

There is no Jewish race. People who insist on segregating Jews as a separate race are showing their anti-Semitic stripes.

What is you reference for there being only 3 races? I never heard that before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The three races are Causacoid, Mongloid, and Negroid. Along those lines, there are Jewish Causacoids, Jewish Mongloids, and Jewish Negroids.

There is no Jewish race. People who insist on segregating Jews as a separate race are showing their anti-Semitic stripes.

Where do people who are indigenous to the Americas fit in? American Indians, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Most innovation in the last hundred years was Jewish. If you subtract African labor and Jewish innovation, there's not so much for you to brag about as you apparently think.

And most Jewish people are white.

Ha! What you mean to say is that most Jewish people wish they were white.

Wow! And you people on this thread think it is racist against blacks? Just listen to the sh!t being spewed about Jews.

And yes, the vast majority of Jews in this country ARE white. There are only three races - and Caucasian is one of them.

No American Indian Jews?

American Indian is not a separate race, and no, I don't think there are Native American Jews, unless some converted.

What race are they?