No Kids at Wedding - Why So Much Anger?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American culture is insane.

They either can’t separate themselves from children for one night or they’re so broke they can’t afford a babysitter for a few hours.

I have friends who drug their three little kids around even to adult poker nights.

It’s disgraceful.

Just to keep this idea grounded in reality, a babysitter for “a few hours” is from 4-12 for a local wedding. That’s eight hours, assume minimum $25/hour you’re looking at $200 just to leave the house. Thats low-tier wedding guest gift all by itself right there.

You don't literally have to stay until the end. Just go to the reception, have dinner, stay for a few dances, then go. People seem to be making this much harder than it has to be.

Ok great you’ve now made this a $150 cost to walk out the door. Good thing you’re here.

Find a sitter that doesn't cost $50 an hour. Go for 3 hours.

Thanks I really enjoy it when invitations come with chores. Find a new babysitter, go for three hours (five with travel) you can keep minimizing all you want but the bottom line is: it’s an ask. You’re asking your guests to bear additional costs to attend your wedding that they don’t have to in order attend other weddings. Thats ok as long as you don’t say a word if they decline (which means no helpful hints about getting lower quality childcare to make sure you’re there for their party…)

Don’t want me spending your money to invite my kid? Don’t spend mine to get a babysitter.

So for the last time, it is totally okay to say "No" and not attend. It's an invite, not a court summons. Doesn't matter why, if you cannot attend, just say no. And 99.99% of brides do not make you "feel bad for declining"

Weird stat. How on earth could you know this? It comes across as bizarrely defensive.

DP. Okay. So how about acknowledging that 100% of the childfree wedding brides here aren't saying you should feel bad for not going. Someone, if not you, seems to be addressing us as if we are, and that is not bizarre to be defensive about.

Yes! I haven't seen a single person who had/supports childfree weddings say that you should not decline if you aren't able to attend. It's ONLY the anti-childfree wedding people who are bent out of shape about someone elses event.

There is a pro-childfree-wedding poster just a page ago who is very upset that someone chose not to go because of issues of babysitting and cost and accused that poster of lying about her reasons for declining. Are you even reading the same thread?

That was me. I never said I was "very upset". I said "It's upsetting...".

I understand why though you need to exaggerate since the child free wedding haters are the upset ones.

Was the below you? It sure sounds very upset to me, and you even say you are upset. It is certainly not emotionally balanced, at least.

It's not upsetting people decline the invitation. It's upsetting people making up disingenuous excuses for doing so.

Why lie about PTO and babysitters? Just say you are declining an invitation to an event that does not accommodate you in the special way you want to be accommodated. Babysitters and PTO is a passive aggressive protest, nothing more.

You aren’t entitled to demand attendance from guests or know their reasons, no matter how much of a temper tantrum you throw.

Nowhere did I demand attendance. I was being critical of the reasons provided for declining.

I can understand why would would mistake that for an emotionally unbalanced temper tantrum since you didn't understand what you read.

I'm Pro---whatever type of wedding you want. But the bride (or anyone else) should not be discussing/being critical of the reasons provided for declining. There is not reason for the bride to expect or be given "an excuse" other than "so sorry, we won't be able to make it. Hope you have an amazing day! "

You can be critical of the reason if the reason is "Not enough PTO", and the invitee is unemployed. You can be critical of the reason if the reason is "No babysitter", and the invitee hires a babysitter to another wedding for that period of time. You can be critical of the nephew who was disingenuous about the 21+ venue requirement.

You don't need to be critical. But it is warranted to be critical of dishonesty.

Nah, only the nephew who lied about the 21+ for your 17/19/20 kids.

All the others, well they obviuosly were not as close as you thought. The fact they hired a babysitter for someone else's wedding should not concern you. But if it does, then distance yourself accordingly.
And anyone who is unemployed who says not enough PTO is likely embarrassed they are unemployed and quite likely cannot afford to attend your wedding. They might be on a very tight budget to you know, live until they are employed again. So yeah, attending a wedding that is an hour away might not be in the budget

OP:

"A good friend had an adults only wedding and now her husband doesn’t speak to his sister because she was angry she could not bring her 12 year old (his sister lived an hour away from the venue) and has never recovered from the slight. His other sister actually brought her child in protest of the wedding being adults only. "

People will breakup a family over a child-free wedding; but it is inconceivable (to you) people would be dishonest about why they are not attending a child-free wedding.

Because you do not need to provide a reason for not attending. Don't give crazy family members access to attempt to control you.

And yes, if you have crazy family like that, then go ahead and lie. I don't care. But I also wouldn't worry about what crazy family like that think about me. I wouldn't care or want to spend time with them.

Couples preferring a child free wedding are "crazy"?

That's an overly dramatic exaggeration. It might be considered a departure from traditional norms, a departure which is debatable among reasonable people. "Crazy" is an exaggeration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think excluding close family members, including children, for the sake of the “perfect” wedding and photos is wrong, but to each their own.

Who is doing that? Or are they just excluding all their friends and coworkers kids they barely know because they don’t want a 440 person wedding?

Even if they are excluding "family", that is their Choice! If they want their wedding day to be kid free and not have tantrums/misbehaved kids around, that is their CHOICE. Go and enjoy yourself if you want. If you don't want to attend, don't attend.

It's one day. It is not your family reunion--it is their wedding, which they are likely paying for. So they get to choose who attends and what happens that day. If you are so self centered to no be accepting, then simply decline the invitation.

All these narcissistic brides posting really give themselves away, don’t they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That would be pretty funny if the people whose kids weren't invited all got together with the extended family the day before with kids and then skipped the wedding.

This assumes the non-attending parents can afford to attend the 'day before event' but can't afford childcare/pto for the additional half-ish ceremony day event.

Bet that would be much more fun than the wedding.

What would make that more "fun"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think excluding close family members, including children, for the sake of the “perfect” wedding and photos is wrong, but to each their own.

Who is doing that? Or are they just excluding all their friends and coworkers kids they barely know because they don’t want a 440 person wedding?

Even if they are excluding "family", that is their Choice! If they want their wedding day to be kid free and not have tantrums/misbehaved kids around, that is their CHOICE. Go and enjoy yourself if you want. If you don't want to attend, don't attend.

It's one day. It is not your family reunion--it is their wedding, which they are likely paying for. So they get to choose who attends and what happens that day. If you are so self centered to no be accepting, then simply decline the invitation.

All these narcissistic brides posting really give themselves away, don’t they?

Nope. They just sound like people understanding modern etiquette. If your etiquette is outdated, your etiquette is outdated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

"Because weddings are about family"

If that is "the point" then it would be expected for the family to pay for the event. It's not expected. Sometimes the family offers to pay. Sometimes not.

If you want your family event to be child inclusive, be an inclusive family member and contribute to a family fund providing for on-site or local childcare for those who cannot afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No, that’s not how babysitters work.
They don’t sit on call waiting for wedding invitations for their clients.

So someone with a babysitter for wedding A might very well not have a babysitter for wedding B.

It was an either/or proposition. If a babysitter is available for a weekend during which 2 events are held, the availability of the babysitter would not matter depending on the event you choose.

Anonymous wrote: And? Someone might like the bride and groom better for wedding A. Would you rather be told “I don’t want to spend $1000 on your wedding but I was really happy to spend $1000 on Sally?”. Is that “honesty” really what you want?

Why would you need to be dishonest about telling people you cannot afford to attend an adults-only wedding? "I cannot afford wedding A; the childcare costs are not in our budget. I can afford wedding B; it allows children thus no childcare expenses."

If someone criticizes you for genuinely not being able to afford something they are planning, they are in the wrong.

You misread. Nowhere did I say anyone couldn’t afford the $1000– they just don’t want to spend it on you and they were happy to spend it on someone else. Isn’t it kinder for them to say to you that they just oh shucks don’t have a sitter? Do you really want that much honesty?

Those are different circumstances.

I am responding to the circumstances presented here. The issue is a family that cannot afford to attend an event because they cannot afford childcare. That is a legitimate reason to decline that event and attend an alternative event that does not require the expense you cannot afford.

Except you’re quoting me, so no there weren’t circumstances presented here where the guests are supposed to present their excuse and see if the host deems it “legitimate”. Good heavens the entitlement of thinking you get to make that call.

It’s “legitimate” to say to a no-kids host (if they’re rude enough to ask) oh yeah sorry no childcare even if what you mean is “oh yeah sorry no childcare options that would make it worth it to attend your event”. If you want to test whether that’s what’s happening try saying “oh! WHN is sending four people and we booked a suite for the kids to hang out in” and if they suddenly accept then you know it was legitimately about childcare, and if they don’t then it was just about not particularly caring to attend your event but wanting to be kind about it when you asked them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think excluding close family members, including children, for the sake of the “perfect” wedding and photos is wrong, but to each their own.

Who is doing that? Or are they just excluding all their friends and coworkers kids they barely know because they don’t want a 440 person wedding?

Even if they are excluding "family", that is their Choice! If they want their wedding day to be kid free and not have tantrums/misbehaved kids around, that is their CHOICE. Go and enjoy yourself if you want. If you don't want to attend, don't attend.

It's one day. It is not your family reunion--it is their wedding, which they are likely paying for. So they get to choose who attends and what happens that day. If you are so self centered to no be accepting, then simply decline the invitation.

All these narcissistic brides posting really give themselves away, don’t they?

Nope. They just sound like people understanding modern etiquette. If your etiquette is outdated, your etiquette is outdated.

There’s no etiquette, modern or otherwise, in which declining an invitation is “self-centered”. Truly seek help as this is textbook narcissism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think excluding close family members, including children, for the sake of the “perfect” wedding and photos is wrong, but to each their own.

Who is doing that? Or are they just excluding all their friends and coworkers kids they barely know because they don’t want a 440 person wedding?

Even if they are excluding "family", that is their Choice! If they want their wedding day to be kid free and not have tantrums/misbehaved kids around, that is their CHOICE. Go and enjoy yourself if you want. If you don't want to attend, don't attend.

It's one day. It is not your family reunion--it is their wedding, which they are likely paying for. So they get to choose who attends and what happens that day. If you are so self centered to no be accepting, then simply decline the invitation.

All these narcissistic brides posting really give themselves away, don’t they?

Nope. They just sound like people understanding modern etiquette. If your etiquette is outdated, your etiquette is outdated.

There’s no etiquette, modern or otherwise, in which declining an invitation is “self-centered”. Truly seek help as this is textbook narcissism.

+1 Wow

The narcissism is unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think excluding close family members, including children, for the sake of the “perfect” wedding and photos is wrong, but to each their own.

Who is doing that? Or are they just excluding all their friends and coworkers kids they barely know because they don’t want a 440 person wedding?

I mean it started with excluding a 12 year old niece

But then the coworker will get mad that another child was allowed and that is deeply insulting, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

I had kids at my wedding, which was 11 years ago, so calm down. That said, it was fun and worthwhile for people to travel to, not some church basement lame-fest.

Sounds like what you are describing is a *family reunion.* Why are you so cheap? If family is actually important to you, you’ll plan and pay for a family reunion. My family does that every few years, so do my ILs. You can rent a beach house if you want people to pay their own way. Why are you so cheap as to expect brides and grooms to foot the bill so you can have a freebie family reunion?

Oh wait, talk is cheap and you don’t value family so much that you hold reunions; if it was a priority, you would host reunions. And you don’t. You piggyback on other people’s weddings. (And funerals, from the sound of you.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

Been around kids lately? They will probably all be on their devices ignoring each other. Not playing Red River like you remember in the days of yore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

Been around kids lately? They will probably all be on their devices ignoring each other. Not playing Red River like you remember in the days of yore.

NP. My kids aren’t allowed to have devices at dinners or events, so no, they aren’t on devices during wedding receptions and family reunions and dinners and play dates. We aren’t rude, and my kids do play games and have a childhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

Been around kids lately? They will probably all be on their devices ignoring each other. Not playing Red River like you remember in the days of yore.

NP. My kids aren’t allowed to have devices at dinners or events, so no, they aren’t on devices during wedding receptions and family reunions and dinners and play dates. We aren’t rude, and my kids do play games and have a childhood.

That’s fine but you know many parents don’t share that philosophy. So your kids won’t have anyone to talk to and will be begging you to leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

Been around kids lately? They will probably all be on their devices ignoring each other. Not playing Red River like you remember in the days of yore.

NP. My kids aren’t allowed to have devices at dinners or events, so no, they aren’t on devices during wedding receptions and family reunions and dinners and play dates. We aren’t rude, and my kids do play games and have a childhood.

That’s fine but you know many parents don’t share that philosophy. So your kids won’t have anyone to talk to and will be begging you to leave.

Yeah, no, that’s…not how it works for my kids. The vast majority of the time, other kids do play with them (even if it is just younger ones), and in the very rare instance where other parents are so ill-mannered and lazy that the kids are screen junkies, my daughters have a great time with each other and with adults who aren’t socially inept. But the vast majority of parents we know aren’t trashy and lazy and bad parents, so their kids aren’t glued to screens at events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When did I say you did? I was simply having a laugh at the ridiculousness of everyone on here who has said thus and thus is acceptable and this or that is not. As if anyone owes anyone else an excuse, a reason, a justification that needs to be “accepted.” I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend. Oh well. I don’t care if someone doesn’t understand or like my decisions.

But as I said, there is clearly a market for this type of reply card. Money to be made, people!

You quoted me so I assumed you were implying as much.

But that's the thing. Nobody is saying the invitee owes anyone an excuse. At least nowhere near the extent we see the other side dictating what is and is not acceptable in terns of people planning their own wedding.

People are saying couples owe it to family, society, and 12 year olds with dreams of attending a wedding to invite children to weddings.

I’ve turned down invitations and I’ve learned that some people were upset I did not attend.

Then that is silly. Nobody should be telling you that you owe them attendance, or that you owe them a wedding with children invited.

That's not precisely what I was trying to say about five pages ago, fwiw. I think weddings used to be bonding experiences for young cousins when I was growing up. Losing that because people want nicer Instagram pictures to post, if that's really why this generation is doing it, is really to bad from my perspective. I have some great memories of those times. It's a shame to me that young people aren't valuing those experiences for kids to hang out together. If that's what you want, I can arrange for babysitting or not according to how much I value you in the family tbh. It does inform my opinion of you and makes me think maybe you're caught up more with appearances and more inclined to make the event all about you instead about the larger family. You're allowed to think me some sort of judgemental oldster, but I'm allowed to make that judgement of your selfishness etc, also.

Hey oldster, what was the average cost of those weddings back in the 70s/80s that you are referring to? Oh, that’s right, a fraction of what a wedding costs today. You sound as dim as the Boomers who go on and on about how they own a home (they bought for $85,000) and they just don’t understand why young people can’t afford a home these days, they’re probably poor because they buy Starbucks. Weddings are astronomically pricier these days, so no, not everyone and their kids can be invited.

Well we did our wedding 30+ years ago at a church. Since we had to pay ourselves and were young and poor, we also held the reception at the church fellowship hall. Hired a church member who ran a catering business to provide the food, and donated to the church to have several of the "women of the church" help with serving the food.
Since it was at a church, there was no dancing, alcohol, etc. It was a 2 hour luncheon/cut the cake and we were done. Then we paid the janitor fee.
So our wedding, including the rehearsal dinner (also at the church fellowship hall, so no alcohol yet again) was about $4K total for 120 people.

But most people are not willing to do that type of wedding and reception
But it can still be done for under $8K

I don’t know anyone who has had that kind of wedding, and I sure would rather get a sitter and go to a fun wedding with alcohol and good food and dancing.

But the point is that some of the wedding expenses these days are over the top because the couple wants amazing photos. The venue has to look amazing, for the photos. The food has to look amazing, for the photos. But It doesn’t really need to be that expensive to be fun. We got married fifteen years ago for about $18K for ~150 people with an open bar, dancing (just a DJ not a band) and it was lovely. A friend’s wedding that happened before us cost $40K with a live band the bride loved very much and a choice of three desserts. Great, if you can afford it! Both weddings allowed kids.

No work friend thinks your invitation includes their kids and no work friend with a live brain will bring their kids to your wedding. I have never gone to a wedding where I saw kids at the work friend table. Someone raised that as a strawman earlier and it’s laughable. Nobody does this unless you work with complete idiots. Similarly, no work friend will be offended if you spell out for them that their kids are not invited. They know the drill.

The point of inviting kids is so that the kids can hang out together and get to know one another, and have family experiences together. Because weddings are about family, and not just about you.

So invite kids or don’t, your choice. We’ll just secretly judge you.

Been around kids lately? They will probably all be on their devices ignoring each other. Not playing Red River like you remember in the days of yore.

NP. My kids aren’t allowed to have devices at dinners or events, so no, they aren’t on devices during wedding receptions and family reunions and dinners and play dates. We aren’t rude, and my kids do play games and have a childhood.

That’s fine but you know many parents don’t share that philosophy. So your kids won’t have anyone to talk to and will be begging you to leave.

Yeah, no, that’s…not how it works for my kids. The vast majority of the time, other kids do play with them (even if it is just younger ones), and in the very rare instance where other parents are so ill-mannered and lazy that the kids are screen junkies, my daughters have a great time with each other and with adults who aren’t socially inept. But the vast majority of parents we know aren’t trashy and lazy and bad parents, so their kids aren’t glued to screens at events.

You’re right, kids are never on their devices any more. Glad that problem is fixed!