The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

Either that, or she’s made the personal trainer up and she’s really staying for her children. They way she said “He’s such a cutie” sounded more like she was talking about a baby.

This. There could be a nice trainer, but she doesn't have it in her character to be a cheater. She is too honest and faithful. I don't doubt she wished she could just go bang others as revenge, but she can't because she needs love first and she values marriage and her own vows even if her husband doesn't. I think she is now seeing what a scumbag he is. They obviously have tons of chemistry and passion and he totally love bombed her at the start of their relationship. Even if she knew he was promiscuous, she likely thought he wouldn't be once married and I'm sure he said as much. She also thought a family would ground him.

She was trying to call the kids and obviously misses them, but she goes along with Cameron for fear of losing him because she wants an intact family.

Where...are you getting all this from?

Her expressions. Her statements. The scene of her so badly wanting to be with/call her kids. The way she talks about family/marriage. I think she is a fun person, but the 'cool girl thing' is an act. She visibly looked like she was going to throw up when Harper said to her 'something happened while we were gone'. She knew what that meant and she was gutted, but then tried to brush over it and suppress it and then made up the story about her trainer. Showing the photo of her kids was also telling.

And the things she does are all to try and keep Cameron bonded and to try and make him jealous, like not telling him she was going to stay overnight. She wants to punish him and have him think she is capable of doing what he does...but she had all the opportunity on the trip and all she wanted to do was hang out in the villa. She wasn't out looking to bang strange like her husband.

She's a beautiful, beautiful woman. Men fall all over her. She could 100% get any man she wanted and, frankly, I think she is more attractive than her husband. She doesn't see her own worth.

Haha, wow. You have a way more charitable view of her character than I do. I think she lets Cameron get away with it bc she believes the only "real" man is one like him who is hyper-masculine/douchey and can't control his sexual urges. She isn't attracted to Albie/Ethan types - she wants the alpha male and she wants to live the rich-lady fantasy life with the perfect family. She has decided the infidelity is part of the package basically. However, I do agree that she is probably not actually cheating and just wants to plant that seed as part of the games she plays with Cameron.

I think the reason she has no female friends is because they probably all figure out soon enough that Cameron is a cheater (and maybe a scammer/fraudster too?) and she can't handle their pity (doesn't want to be a victim).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

That's my guess.

At least the older one.

And I don't think Cameron knows.

[Anonymous]

This aspect of Survivor makes me think it's unlike Mia or Lucia wind up dead (schemers, sure, but too plucky and likable to be hated) and also that Tanya probably makes it out alive. Cameron though... he's the sort who would make it deep in the game and then be gloriously ousted by the exact people he's been cruelest to. My money is on Daphne, Harper, or Ethan, or potentially all three, killing Cameron in an extremely satisfying way. The slaying of the villains has long been my favorite Survivor feature -- nasty people never win.



I agree with this assessment in the previous post. I think Cameron and some members of the gay mafia end up dead, and it will indeed be satisfying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

That's my guess.

Why do you think so? I thought that whole exchange was so strange. Like there is no personal trainer?

She made a comment about the trainer's blue eyes and then the kid in the pic had blue eyes.

I thought it meant she deals with the husband’s crap for her kids.

That's not how I took that at all. I took that exchange as communicating a few things - 1) Daphne is really hurt by Cameron's cheating but can't stop him and doesn't want a divorce; 2) she doesn't want to confront it or to discuss it with Harper; 3) a demonstration that she has her own secrets/own ways of getting even.

In the interview with the actors afterwards Theo and Megan both agreed that Cameron loves Daphne and is in fact protective of the relationship even is he is a cheating jerk.

[Anonymous]

I think what you are seeing with Daphne and Cameron is seeing what the old man had with his wife. When Dominic was pressing his Dad about his infidelities, the old man was emphatic that they loved one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

That's my guess.

At least the older one.

And I don't think Cameron knows.

This is the only interpretation. PPs going on about the trainer being made up are delusional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mike White famously loves the show Survivor and even appeared in a season of the show. I think there are a ton of Survivor parallels in White Lotus and since I have nothing better to do this morning (just kidding, I have a long to do list but zero desire to tackle it) here are some of the parallels I see. Obviously the show is not strictly a game and no one is getting "voted out", but White is clearly playing with some of the tropes of the game in my eyes:

Alliances

Alliances are central to Survivor game play and are the source of the vast majority of interpersonal drama. Some alliances can form early on in the game and last to the bitter end, essentially securing the final two or the winner's win. But most alliances shift throughout the game as people are eliminated and other players have to hop to new alliances with better numbers to protect themselves.

The most obvious alliances parallel involves Portia, who arrives with Tanya but is immediately banished by Greg (early alliances are often based purely on who you like and don't like, personality-wise). She then gloms onto Albie and his dad and grandad. Nursing a flirtation from an interested party to form an alliance is a Survivor classic, and one way that younger women on the show who might otherwise be considered liabilities early on for lacking physical strength, secure safety during the early part of the game.

There are other alliances going on as well. The foursome start out with to obvious alliances -- the Spillers and the Babcocks. But then Daphne clearly tries to recruit Harper to her alliance (is it her individual alliance or one she shares with Cameron? it's unclear) when they go to Noto. Noticeably, no one seems to be recruiting Ethan. If Harper turns against him, he has no protection.

Tanya has been recruited by the gays to their alliance but it feels nefarious. Mia and Lucia were allied with Dom but they crossed to many lines with Albie and the grandad, so he's told them he's through with them.

Blindsides

This is when a player flips on an alliance at the last minute, voting against someone they'd previously promised to help protect. Blindsides are a survivor classic. You can see blindside parallels in the way Portia ditches Albie for Jack, effectively switching her alliance from the Di Grassos to the gays. But Tanya's discovery at the end of the last episode indicate a blindside is in the works with the gays as well, though it's not clear exactly what it will be. I suspect, as others do, that the gays are secretly allied with Greg, putting both Tanya and Portia in danger.

Harper's discovery of the condom wrapper felt like a blindside, since Ethan had in fact been lying to her all day about what happened with Cameron. On the other hand, I think the ultimate alliances in the foursome are very much up in the air and Harper might be looking to convince both Cameron and Daphne that she's joining their alliance against Ethan, only to blindside them in the end in an act of loyalty to her husband.

Whoever dies is likely getting the ultimate blindside and I do think White is trying to make this as surprising for the audience as possible, so I think the biggest blindside is yet to come and likely to be a shock.

Swing Votes

A Survivor classic, this is what happens when you have two equally sized alliances and one or two people who are unaligned. The wooing of the swing votes is a Survivor mainstay. I think the most obvious swing votes are Mia and Lucia, who have a tight alliance with each other but very weak alliances with others (Dom, Albie, Cam, Valentina) often based on temporary goodwill or a financial transaction. They are playing games and swing votes often get caught up in their temporary power only to get quickly punished for this as soon as the number shift and they are no longer needed. I fear this is what will happen with Lucia for sure. Mia seems a little more cautious and thus maybe safer but we'll see.

Portia is also a potential swing vote and could help or hurt Tanya with the dangerous situation in Palermo.

Tribal Council

Tribal Council, where someone is voted out or, in the last episode, where the winner is selected, happens at the end of every episode of survivor. This last episode had MAJOR tribal council vibes at the end, with both the dinner hour at the hotel and the opera in Palermo. Right down to classic Survivor imagery of fire and close ups of statues, plus the White Lotus scores always gives Survivor with the wordless chanting -- if you are much of a Survivor watcher, it's hard to avoid the obvious references.

Anyway, tribal council is where a lot of $hit goes down but because it's very public, with everyone sitting in a circle, it's hard to scheme. There are a LOT of meaningful glances. Kind of like the dinner with the foursome. Sometimes players will even have hurried, whispered conversations before the vote to try and change a plan last minute based on what has been said at Council. When Mia went off with Cameron in full view of Albie, it had that feeling of Lucia trying to swing a vote last minute using Cameron as a tool. The Di Grassos have also had a lot of Tribal Council-esque glances through the show during dinner, as gramps and Dom track the location of Mia/Lucia, and gramps also tracks Dom's tracking of Mia/Lucia.

The foursome always feels Tribal Council-y to me at their dinners, with revelations and accusations thrown out, never more so than in this last episode. Cameron grabbing Harper's knee under the table reminded me of the way players sometimes slip other people immunity idols at council, though I don't think Cameron wants to give Harper immunity, if you know what I mean (lol).

Often, after tribal council, the show will follow the tribe back to camp where they will go to sleep. Only sometimes some people don't go to sleep and there is activity -- idol hiding, alliance conversations, etc. Kind of like how Jack went to hide his idol after leaving Portia, wink-wink (I know I'm being silly, I enjoy the innuendo!).

That's all I've got for now. I saw some Survivor references in the first season but they are out of control in this season and I think it's clear White was heavily inspired by his fandom and likely also his experience on the show. It's also clearly a passionate interest of his -- I think his interest in class and hierarchies dovetails nicely with his interest in Survivor. It's also what I like about that show too -- it has a way of exposing people in the most fascinating ways, both their worst impulses (betrayal, exploitation, lying and stealing) and their surprising vulnerabilities and resiliency.

One thing about Survivor is that nasty people never win. They can't, everyone hates them. The winners are always schemers and pretty much no one ever wins without telling at least a few little lies. But the winners usually have strong social skills and are genuinely likable, or have qualities that help others respect them. That's how they get the votes at the end even after participating in voting off a lot of the jury. This aspect of Survivor makes me think it's unlike Mia or Lucia wind up dead (schemers, sure, but too plucky and likable to be hated) and also that Tanya probably makes it out alive. Cameron though... he's the sort who would make it deep in the game and then be gloriously ousted by the exact people he's been cruelest to. My money is on Daphne, Harper, or Ethan, or potentially all three, killing Cameron in an extremely satisfying way. The slaying of the villains has long been my favorite Survivor feature -- nasty people never win.

Now I remember why I never got into Survivor. Too freaking tedious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Tanya's husband is the ranch hand from Wyoming, right. And it's a set up to kill her?

But why not do it already? Why draw it out.

I’m wondering the same. She could have “fallen overboard” while the “nephew” distracted Portia.

I definitely think this is right - the husband worked for the bureau of land management out west somewhere, right? And the leader of the Sinister Gay Cabal said after all these years he would still do anything for him. I think Tanya's husband probably also promised him enough money from his inheritance to restore/maintain the villa indefinitely - hence him asking if Tanya would "die for beauty."

I'm wondering if the reason they didn't throw her overboard is because they want to somehow pin her death on Portia? I definitely think Essex boy is supposed to be distracting Portia, but maybe they also plan frame her. He's had plenty of chances to get her DNA

Show is so GOOD this season!

AHHHHH - my mind is blown!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mike White famously loves the show Survivor and even appeared in a season of the show. I think there are a ton of Survivor parallels in White Lotus and since I have nothing better to do this morning (just kidding, I have a long to do list but zero desire to tackle it) here are some of the parallels I see. Obviously the show is not strictly a game and no one is getting "voted out", but White is clearly playing with some of the tropes of the game in my eyes:

Alliances

Alliances are central to Survivor game play and are the source of the vast majority of interpersonal drama. Some alliances can form early on in the game and last to the bitter end, essentially securing the final two or the winner's win. But most alliances shift throughout the game as people are eliminated and other players have to hop to new alliances with better numbers to protect themselves.

The most obvious alliances parallel involves Portia, who arrives with Tanya but is immediately banished by Greg (early alliances are often based purely on who you like and don't like, personality-wise). She then gloms onto Albie and his dad and grandad. Nursing a flirtation from an interested party to form an alliance is a Survivor classic, and one way that younger women on the show who might otherwise be considered liabilities early on for lacking physical strength, secure safety during the early part of the game.

There are other alliances going on as well. The foursome start out with to obvious alliances -- the Spillers and the Babcocks. But then Daphne clearly tries to recruit Harper to her alliance (is it her individual alliance or one she shares with Cameron? it's unclear) when they go to Noto. Noticeably, no one seems to be recruiting Ethan. If Harper turns against him, he has no protection.

Tanya has been recruited by the gays to their alliance but it feels nefarious. Mia and Lucia were allied with Dom but they crossed to many lines with Albie and the grandad, so he's told them he's through with them.

Blindsides

This is when a player flips on an alliance at the last minute, voting against someone they'd previously promised to help protect. Blindsides are a survivor classic. You can see blindside parallels in the way Portia ditches Albie for Jack, effectively switching her alliance from the Di Grassos to the gays. But Tanya's discovery at the end of the last episode indicate a blindside is in the works with the gays as well, though it's not clear exactly what it will be. I suspect, as others do, that the gays are secretly allied with Greg, putting both Tanya and Portia in danger.

Harper's discovery of the condom wrapper felt like a blindside, since Ethan had in fact been lying to her all day about what happened with Cameron. On the other hand, I think the ultimate alliances in the foursome are very much up in the air and Harper might be looking to convince both Cameron and Daphne that she's joining their alliance against Ethan, only to blindside them in the end in an act of loyalty to her husband.

Whoever dies is likely getting the ultimate blindside and I do think White is trying to make this as surprising for the audience as possible, so I think the biggest blindside is yet to come and likely to be a shock.

Swing Votes

A Survivor classic, this is what happens when you have two equally sized alliances and one or two people who are unaligned. The wooing of the swing votes is a Survivor mainstay. I think the most obvious swing votes are Mia and Lucia, who have a tight alliance with each other but very weak alliances with others (Dom, Albie, Cam, Valentina) often based on temporary goodwill or a financial transaction. They are playing games and swing votes often get caught up in their temporary power only to get quickly punished for this as soon as the number shift and they are no longer needed. I fear this is what will happen with Lucia for sure. Mia seems a little more cautious and thus maybe safer but we'll see.

Portia is also a potential swing vote and could help or hurt Tanya with the dangerous situation in Palermo.

Tribal Council

Tribal Council, where someone is voted out or, in the last episode, where the winner is selected, happens at the end of every episode of survivor. This last episode had MAJOR tribal council vibes at the end, with both the dinner hour at the hotel and the opera in Palermo. Right down to classic Survivor imagery of fire and close ups of statues, plus the White Lotus scores always gives Survivor with the wordless chanting -- if you are much of a Survivor watcher, it's hard to avoid the obvious references.

Anyway, tribal council is where a lot of $hit goes down but because it's very public, with everyone sitting in a circle, it's hard to scheme. There are a LOT of meaningful glances. Kind of like the dinner with the foursome. Sometimes players will even have hurried, whispered conversations before the vote to try and change a plan last minute based on what has been said at Council. When Mia went off with Cameron in full view of Albie, it had that feeling of Lucia trying to swing a vote last minute using Cameron as a tool. The Di Grassos have also had a lot of Tribal Council-esque glances through the show during dinner, as gramps and Dom track the location of Mia/Lucia, and gramps also tracks Dom's tracking of Mia/Lucia.

The foursome always feels Tribal Council-y to me at their dinners, with revelations and accusations thrown out, never more so than in this last episode. Cameron grabbing Harper's knee under the table reminded me of the way players sometimes slip other people immunity idols at council, though I don't think Cameron wants to give Harper immunity, if you know what I mean (lol).

Often, after tribal council, the show will follow the tribe back to camp where they will go to sleep. Only sometimes some people don't go to sleep and there is activity -- idol hiding, alliance conversations, etc. Kind of like how Jack went to hide his idol after leaving Portia, wink-wink (I know I'm being silly, I enjoy the innuendo!).

That's all I've got for now. I saw some Survivor references in the first season but they are out of control in this season and I think it's clear White was heavily inspired by his fandom and likely also his experience on the show. It's also clearly a passionate interest of his -- I think his interest in class and hierarchies dovetails nicely with his interest in Survivor. It's also what I like about that show too -- it has a way of exposing people in the most fascinating ways, both their worst impulses (betrayal, exploitation, lying and stealing) and their surprising vulnerabilities and resiliency.

One thing about Survivor is that nasty people never win. They can't, everyone hates them. The winners are always schemers and pretty much no one ever wins without telling at least a few little lies. But the winners usually have strong social skills and are genuinely likable, or have qualities that help others respect them. That's how they get the votes at the end even after participating in voting off a lot of the jury. This aspect of Survivor makes me think it's unlike Mia or Lucia wind up dead (schemers, sure, but too plucky and likable to be hated) and also that Tanya probably makes it out alive. Cameron though... he's the sort who would make it deep in the game and then be gloriously ousted by the exact people he's been cruelest to. My money is on Daphne, Harper, or Ethan, or potentially all three, killing Cameron in an extremely satisfying way. The slaying of the villains has long been my favorite Survivor feature -- nasty people never win.

Now I remember why I never got into Survivor. Too freaking tedious.

Survivor is many things but tedious isn't one of them! I eventually stopped watching because it felt like the producers were working too hard to insert "twists" into the show and I think it's at its best when they just leave the players to their own devices. The set up is inherently genius -- the players plot and scheme to vote each other off one by one, until the end when all the voted off people come back to decide which of the last 2-3 players should get the prize. It's perfectly designed, no notes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

Either that, or she’s made the personal trainer up and she’s really staying for her children. They way she said “He’s such a cutie” sounded more like she was talking about a baby.

This. There could be a nice trainer, but she doesn't have it in her character to be a cheater. She is too honest and faithful. I don't doubt she wished she could just go bang others as revenge, but she can't because she needs love first and she values marriage and her own vows even if her husband doesn't. I think she is now seeing what a scumbag he is. They obviously have tons of chemistry and passion and he totally love bombed her at the start of their relationship. Even if she knew he was promiscuous, she likely thought he wouldn't be once married and I'm sure he said as much. She also thought a family would ground him.

She was trying to call the kids and obviously misses them, but she goes along with Cameron for fear of losing him because she wants an intact family.

Where...are you getting all this from?

I think it's DCUM mad libs

LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, Tanya's husband is the ranch hand from Wyoming, right. And it's a set up to kill her?

But why not do it already? Why draw it out.

I’m wondering the same. She could have “fallen overboard” while the “nephew” distracted Portia.

I think it’s because he has taken a liking to Tanya, thus the comment about how he couldn’t imagine a life without beauty. I think he is having second thoughts.

I don’t think so. That line seemed super sinister to me. I think maybe the villa is actually his but he’s run out of money and killing Tanya will get him enough to save it/stay in it. The life without beauty is what he’s facing right now, having run out of inherited money.

He definitely hasn’t taken a liking to her. He was making fun of her all day. Telling her the lady was the queen of Sicily, using the Brokeback Mountain story as his own.

I do think Tanya will make it out, and either she saves Portia or Portia dies. It seems like she’s warning Portia in the next episode about Essex boy but not in a very clear way, so I doubt Portia will listen.

I don’t think he was making fun of her saying it was the queen of Sicily, it’s just that when people are dealing with Tanya, it’s easier and perhaps kinder to let her enjoy her fantasies.

No - he was making fun of here there. That was clear in the way he was looking at his friends afterwards and snickering.

[Anonymous]

This season isn’t really doing it for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

Either that, or she’s made the personal trainer up and she’s really staying for her children. They way she said “He’s such a cutie” sounded more like she was talking about a baby.

This. There could be a nice trainer, but she doesn't have it in her character to be a cheater. She is too honest and faithful. I don't doubt she wished she could just go bang others as revenge, but she can't because she needs love first and she values marriage and her own vows even if her husband doesn't. I think she is now seeing what a scumbag he is. They obviously have tons of chemistry and passion and he totally love bombed her at the start of their relationship. Even if she knew he was promiscuous, she likely thought he wouldn't be once married and I'm sure he said as much. She also thought a family would ground him.

She was trying to call the kids and obviously misses them, but she goes along with Cameron for fear of losing him because she wants an intact family.

Where...are you getting all this from?

Her expressions. Her statements. The scene of her so badly wanting to be with/call her kids. The way she talks about family/marriage. I think she is a fun person, but the 'cool girl thing' is an act. She visibly looked like she was going to throw up when Harper said to her 'something happened while we were gone'. She knew what that meant and she was gutted, but then tried to brush over it and suppress it and then made up the story about her trainer. Showing the photo of her kids was also telling.

I think both Daphne and Cameron not so simple and one dimensional as many think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Daphne’s children are from personal trainer, correct?

Either that, or she’s made the personal trainer up and she’s really staying for her children. They way she said “He’s such a cutie” sounded more like she was talking about a baby.

This. There could be a nice trainer, but she doesn't have it in her character to be a cheater. She is too honest and faithful. I don't doubt she wished she could just go bang others as revenge, but she can't because she needs love first and she values marriage and her own vows even if her husband doesn't. I think she is now seeing what a scumbag he is. They obviously have tons of chemistry and passion and he totally love bombed her at the start of their relationship. Even if she knew he was promiscuous, she likely thought he wouldn't be once married and I'm sure he said as much. She also thought a family would ground him.

She was trying to call the kids and obviously misses them, but she goes along with Cameron for fear of losing him because she wants an intact family.

Where...are you getting all this from?

Her expressions. Her statements. The scene of her so badly wanting to be with/call her kids. The way she talks about family/marriage. I think she is a fun person, but the 'cool girl thing' is an act. She visibly looked like she was going to throw up when Harper said to her 'something happened while we were gone'. She knew what that meant and she was gutted, but then tried to brush over it and suppress it and then made up the story about her trainer. Showing the photo of her kids was also telling.

I think both Daphne and Cameron not so simple and one dimensional as many think.

I agree with you on Daphne but I think Cameron is basically what he appears to be. We might learn some mitigating factor at some point, but it's not going to change the underlying facts -- he's both arrogant and insecure and channels that into classic toxic masculinity in the form of rampant cheating, aggressive work behavior, and being very competitive with other men. Also has anger issues.

I really don't think we're going to find anything out about him that changes those facts. Even if it turns out he's an abuse survivor or something. That might help explain some of why he is how he is, but it doesn't change how he is. I think what you see is what you get with Cameron.

Ethan, on the other hand, is a black box. I think we're going to get some serious revelations about him.

[Anonymous]

I was curious about mimetic desire after Ethan brought it up in the last episode. It's very interesting and I think actually probably serves as a major inspiration for White Lotus in general: https://mimetictheory.com/articles/mimetic-desire/

This part grabbed my eye:

"Imitating a model is not dangerous if the desire is for something that is abundant and sharable—drinking a mass-produced wine, watching Game of Thrones, or getting into a large state school with a 90% acceptance rate.

But things get more complicated when we imitate the desire for objects that are scarce and can’t easily be shared. According to economists, that’s a lot of things."

White Lotus is all about scarcity -- the whole point is that these very rich people are getting access to something very few people get access to. That's what makes it desirable to them -- the fact that others can't have it. But that's also what makes them targets -- their enjoyment of these scarce things engenders mimetic desire and inevitably conflict from people who want what they have.

Like Tanya said, it's a relief to be around people with money because then you know they aren't trying to take yours. EXCEPT the show demonstrates how the very wealthy, in always pursuing the most scarce thing, basically create the envy that threatens them. By seeking out the most scarce resources, they create mimetic desire in others over something that simply cannot be shared. And with the advent of social media, in particular, wealthy people also show off their access to these scarce resources in a way that makes mimetic desire inevitable.

It's interesting. These people want others to be jealous because that deepens their pleasure in whatever they are enjoying, but they also resent the jealousy as threatening.