More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Again, you’ve said nothing at all to refute the statements made by that poster.

Eh? First of all, this isn't high school debate. Second of all, the statements made by that poster seem to be that people who are residents of an incorporated municipality in Montgomery County shouldn't have a say in Montgomery County land use, because it's not fair that people who aren't residents of an incorporated municipality in Montgomery County don't have a say in that incorporated municipality's land use, or democracy, or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Again, you’ve said nothing at all to refute the statements made by that poster.

Eh? First of all, this isn't high school debate. Second of all, the statements made by that poster seem to be that people who are residents of an incorporated municipality in Montgomery County shouldn't have a say in Montgomery County land use, because it's not fair that people who aren't residents of an incorporated municipality in Montgomery County don't have a say in that incorporated municipality's land use, or democracy, or something.

NIMBY in the sheets, YIMBY in the streets. LOL! What a loser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

You want the privilege to be a NIMBY in your neighborhood and a YIMBY in other people’s neighborhoods.

You’re absolutely lame and your attempts to spin it make you look even lamer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

That poster to whom you responded.

Possibly. And not quite as you have laid out. As always expected, mischaracterization (in this case, reduction to a specific without acknowledgement of the generality/more legitimate justification that might provide supporting context for that specific) continues from those whose rhetoric appears to rely on such logically fallacious argument. There shouldn't be inequity such that one group has relatively less power/agency regarding the public policy decisions that more directly affect them than another group has.

Back to the "possibly." "Should strip" is different from "might consider stripping among several possible remedies, two of which have been suggested," as was the case, here. The other was to restrict those so protected, themselves, from equal input (and, certainly, direction/decision-making) related to areas without such protection to preserve the input from/agency of those most directly affected. I'm open to other possibilities to achieve the equitable end mentioned, if you have some to suggest.

There are things I might say to missing middle supporters, but "life isn't fair," as an argument, would not be one.

[Anonymous]

The complaints about Takoma Park, Rockville, and Gaithersburg are fair. It doesn’t help that two council members from Takoma Park were among the loudest advocates for increasing density in the county while they lived in a protected enclave where if the zoning doesn’t prevent more density the rent control will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

That poster to whom you responded.

Possibly. And not quite as you have laid out. As always expected, mischaracterization (in this case, reduction to a specific without acknowledgement of the generality/more legitimate justification that might provide supporting context for that specific) continues from those whose rhetoric appears to rely on such logically fallacious argument. There shouldn't be inequity such that one group has relatively less power/agency regarding the public policy decisions that more directly affect them than another group has.

Back to the "possibly." "Should strip" is different from "might consider stripping among several possible remedies, two of which have been suggested," as was the case, here. The other was to restrict those so protected, themselves, from equal input (and, certainly, direction/decision-making) related to areas without such protection to preserve the input from/agency of those most directly affected. I'm open to other possibilities to achieve the equitable end mentioned, if you have some to suggest.

There are things I might say to missing middle supporters, but "life isn't fair," as an argument, would not be one.

Where the inequity, to be clear, is that people who aren't residents of a municipality aren't residents of that municipality, whereas people who are residents of the municipality are residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

You want the privilege to be a NIMBY in your neighborhood and a YIMBY in other people’s neighborhoods.

You’re absolutely lame and your attempts to spin it make you look even lamer.

"You" who? I'm the PP you're responding to, and I don't live in an incorporated municipality, I live in unincorporated Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The complaints about Takoma Park, Rockville, and Gaithersburg are fair. It doesn’t help that two council members from Takoma Park were among the loudest advocates for increasing density in the county while they lived in a protected enclave where if the zoning doesn’t prevent more density the rent control will.

Aren’t the historic districts (like Takoma Park) with the charming Victorian era and Craftsman era homes protected from tear downs to increase density on the lots? Not sure if this point was brought up since I haven’t read every single post.

[Anonymous]

Please discuss if any possibility of eminent domain. Pls discuss why one planner person mentioned the 12 acres owned by a church in the 4 corners area?
Do the residents know their houses are in the yellow bubble?
Does the church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The complaints about Takoma Park, Rockville, and Gaithersburg are fair. It doesn’t help that two council members from Takoma Park were among the loudest advocates for increasing density in the county while they lived in a protected enclave where if the zoning doesn’t prevent more density the rent control will.

What’s even worse is those clowns helped to actively oppose housing density at the Metro station, which is not even in Maryland. And then were conspicuously silent when their white neighbors organized a campaign to prevent a Black man from developing a parking lot for retail. While they went around calling people who opposed their plans across the county as racist. I’m still shocked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Wonderful perpetuation of the line without nod to the inequty presented to those in unincorporated areas, where decisions can be made that greatly affect them by those with little or no skin in the game. If you don't like the suggested restriction, why not offer an alternative wherein such residents have equivalent protection? Say...

Allowing (and making ubiquitous) "light" incorporation of such areas for zoning purposes,

or

Redefining the scope of authority for incorporated areas to exclude zoning.

The inequity of all Montgomery County residents having a say in Montgomery County land use decisions? The inequity of City of Rockville's residents having a say in City of Rockville's land use decisions vs non-residents of city of Rockville who don't? The inequity of there being incorporated municipalities with planning/zoning authority in Montgomery County? I sincerely don't get it.

What intentionally misdirective drivel -- it's difficult to believe, given the recent thread posts providing relatively clear context, that your claim of not getting it is anything more than a desperate attempt to confuse others. Just so as not to leave that hanging, it might be seen as the inequity of those not in an incorporated municipality having less relative say in changes related to their own local area in comparison to that of those whose residence is in an incorporated area. The power imbalance potentially allows those in incorporated areas to influence or create zoning policy that affects those in unincorporated areas while being insulated from possible negative effects of such changes, themselves. While the purposes of incorporation might include such protection, it should not afford the power differential with respect to others' localities.

In other words, you think it's unfair that people who live near but not in the City of Rockville don't have a voice in City of Rockville land use decisions because they're not City of Rockville residents, whereas people who live in the City of Rockville do have a voice in Montgomery County land use decisions because they're Montgomery County residents as well as City of Rockville residents. And so therefore the State of Maryland should strip the authority over land use decisions from the City of Rockville?

I hope you're not somebody who mischaracterizes supporters of Missing Middle housing as Oh, they're just upset that they can't afford to live in Bethesda, I would like to live in a mansion in Hawaii but I can't afford it, life isn't fair.

You want the privilege to be a NIMBY in your neighborhood and a YIMBY in other people’s neighborhoods.

You’re absolutely lame and your attempts to spin it make you look even lamer.

"You" who? I'm the PP you're responding to, and I don't live in an incorporated municipality, I live in unincorporated Montgomery County.

*fart noise*