More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ruh-ruh! What happened here?
Washington Business Journal(?)— A Dallas company has backed out of a contract to buy a Silver Spring office building less than three months after winning approval to redevelop the site with multifamily.

Already backing out of contract…

Im going to guess that the moment they tried to restrict parking and told JLB they had to have 25% MPDUs, the company turned around and walked out the door. A couple of months trying to work with Planning and Permitting can cause even the deepest pockets to second guess their investments.

They were already done with planning, but generally I agree with you. Everyone thinks planning caters to developers, but that’s wrong. It actually caters to a small but influential group of local land use lawyers who have been big donors to Friedson, GGW, and Montgomery4All, among others. The approval processes seem to be designed to help the lawyers run up big bills. Reforming the planning processes, which deliver no value for the developers or the community, is some of the lowest hanging fruit in reducing development costs and speeding up projects. Yet they only talk about it occasionally and never do it.

In this case, the developer claims the project no longer made sense in today’s market. There were some things about the project that made no sense, especially including more parking spaces than housing units right across from a metro station. But we’re constantly told that we’re in the midst of a housing crisis caused by zoning so how can it be that approved housing across the street from a metro station no longer makes sense in today’s market. Maybe it’s not zoning at all but the weak job market that’s causing weak housing production. Or maybe the heart of the housing crisis isn’t a shortage of mid-rise apartments but instead a shortage of SFH that’s put upward pressure on mid-rise apartment rents, creating a risk of a glut of mid-rise apartments if this county ever decides to stop penalizing SFH production with excessive fees and taxes.

You have hit the nail on the head.

Entrenched corruption, combined with ideologues and declining economic prospects are a recipe for a doom loop.

It’s funny that the obvious answer for housing production is incrementalism but they just skip straight over the next obvious increment that is driving housing production to meet population growth elsewhere in the country: SFHs on smaller lots.

Before that: mid/high-rise residential/mixed-use in areas that already had been zoned for it before the latest development push, but under-built.

The under building has been a killer for housing supply. Ballston drove a harder bargain during its rapid growth phase, held out for bigger buildings, and eventually got them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ruh-ruh! What happened here?
Washington Business Journal(?)— A Dallas company has backed out of a contract to buy a Silver Spring office building less than three months after winning approval to redevelop the site with multifamily.

Already backing out of contract…

.

The Citizens Association filed lawsuits asking the court to review the decision making process of the planning commission…which sounds like one promising tool in the toolbox for residents along University and in the county in general.

It's a promising tool for spending a lot of civic association money on lawyers before ultimately losing. Meanwhile, the building is sitting there vacant, and the residents of Americana Finnmark, who were supposed to finally get a traffic signal on Georgia as part of the development, will have to keep waiting. Yay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ruh-ruh! What happened here?
Washington Business Journal(?)— A Dallas company has backed out of a contract to buy a Silver Spring office building less than three months after winning approval to redevelop the site with multifamily.

Already backing out of contract…

.

The Citizens Association filed lawsuits asking the court to review the decision making process of the planning commission…which sounds like one promising tool in the toolbox for residents along University and in the county in general.

It's a promising tool for spending a lot of civic association money on lawyers before ultimately losing. Meanwhile, the building is sitting there vacant, and the residents of Americana Finnmark, who were supposed to finally get a traffic signal on Georgia as part of the development, will have to keep waiting. Yay?

What makes you think that the homeowners and associations would lose?

How many units have they built in Arlington?

At the very least they’d likely get a more reasonable outcome, once negotiated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ruh-ruh! What happened here?
Washington Business Journal(?)— A Dallas company has backed out of a contract to buy a Silver Spring office building less than three months after winning approval to redevelop the site with multifamily.

Already backing out of contract…

.

The Citizens Association filed lawsuits asking the court to review the decision making process of the planning commission…which sounds like one promising tool in the toolbox for residents along University and in the county in general.

It's a promising tool for spending a lot of civic association money on lawyers before ultimately losing. Meanwhile, the building is sitting there vacant, and the residents of Americana Finnmark, who were supposed to finally get a traffic signal on Georgia as part of the development, will have to keep waiting. Yay?

What makes you think that the homeowners and associations would lose?

How many units have they built in Arlington?

At the very least they’d likely get a more reasonable outcome, once negotiated.

I don't know of any associations that have sued the Planning Department in the last 20 years that have won. As far as I know, every single one has lost. If you know of an association that sued and won, please post with details. Maybe you could also explain why the Planning Department would negotiate with an association that lost a lawsuit.

Arlington is not part of Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone is commenting on the Post article today about Takoma Park about “let’s get upzoning”—same style of talk

In fact, Takoma Park is the first place in the county that should be upzoned. The game for too long was a TKPK dominated Council upzoning everywhere else in the county and calling people that complained racist, while protecting Takoma Park from density.

Then you will need to move to Takoma Park and run for city council, because Takoma Park has its own zoning authority.

Why would they need to move there to think that it’s the first place that should be upzoned? If anything, its exclusion from the reaches of the county planning board proves their point.

If their point is that incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County that existed before the creation of the Montgomery-National Capital Park and Planning Commission have their own planning and zoning authority, then yes, that proves their point

Ah yes, here’s the game. Takoma Park YIMBY activitist licking behind their sheltered walls. Go and protest the folks in Chevy Chase about a library while protecting your parking lots.

No one gives a crap about the administrative minutiae CSS of how you orchestrate your game. We just see the outcome of your rank hypocrisy.

I don't understand what the sentence means. Are you saying that nobody cares about the structure and function of local government? That's clearly false.

YIMBY activists don't protect parking lots, in Takoma Park or otherwise.

DP. I suppose we should adopt legislation that prohibits residents of areas with their own zoning authorities from being involved in zoning activity in any surrounding area, then. Mandatory recusal, etc.

Why would we do this? Residents of the City of Takoma Park (or the City of Rockville, or the City of Gaithersburg, or the Town of Poolesville, or the Town of Chevy Chase, or...) are also residents of Montgomery County.

I dunno...for the sake of ensuring that folks aren't directing policy for which they suffer no repercussion (or much less than those more directly affected)? Kind of a basic principle of good governance in a democratic system.

To repeat: residents of incorporated municipalities in Montgomery County are residents of Montgomery County. Speaking of basic principles of good governance in a democratic system. If you want a say in City of Gaithersburg zoning decisions, become a resident of the City of Gaithersburg.

Again, you’ve said nothing at all to refute the statements made by that poster.