FCPS paying for Critical Race Theory curriculum. To be implemented in a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still in disbelief that there are people in this country who feel it is still appropriate to give the long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective. That gives a version of all of the wonderful things our white forebears did, gave us, provided, etc. This is a lie.

Yes, there were many wonderful things. But that was often on the backs, and using the lash or discrimination, of POC and other minority groups. Not to mention the treatment of women of all color. Of course, there were also wonderful things/contributions of whites but there were also those of POC, women, and other minorities. Those stories are rarely told (how old were you when you learned of the Tulsa massacre, to bring up something current? I was 47). The full picture of our founders -and forward- are also rarely given. Thomas Jefferson is only the most glaring example of that.

It should be told. All of it. The current state of history should include it all and not be relegated to "ethnic studies", "african studies" or "womens studies" classes. Including it -in age appropriate ways- is historically accurate, fair, and the absolute right thing to do.

I question the motives, integrity, and intelligence of anyone who disagrees with this.
(PS- I'm white).

DP. Read the post above yours. You can question and insult everyone if you want to. You should also brush up on your history, while you're at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still in disbelief that there are people in this country who feel it is still appropriate to give the long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective. That gives a version of all of the wonderful things our white forebears did, gave us, provided, etc. This is a lie.

Yes, there were many wonderful things. But that was often on the backs, and using the lash or discrimination, of POC and other minority groups. Not to mention the treatment of women of all color. Of course, there were also wonderful things/contributions of whites but there were also those of POC, women, and other minorities. Those stories are rarely told (how old were you when you learned of the Tulsa massacre, to bring up something current? I was 47). The full picture of our founders -and forward- are also rarely given. Thomas Jefferson is only the most glaring example of that.

It should be told. All of it. The current state of history should include it all and not be relegated to "ethnic studies", "african studies" or "womens studies" classes. Including it -in age appropriate ways- is historically accurate, fair, and the absolute right thing to do.

I question the motives, integrity, and intelligence of anyone who disagrees with this.
(PS- I'm white).

Whites are the worst at the self-denigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still in disbelief that there are people in this country who feel it is still appropriate to give the long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective. That gives a version of all of the wonderful things our white forebears did, gave us, provided, etc. This is a lie.

Yes, there were many wonderful things. But that was often on the backs, and using the lash or discrimination, of POC and other minority groups. Not to mention the treatment of women of all color. Of course, there were also wonderful things/contributions of whites but there were also those of POC, women, and other minorities. Those stories are rarely told (how old were you when you learned of the Tulsa massacre, to bring up something current? I was 47). The full picture of our founders -and forward- are also rarely given. Thomas Jefferson is only the most glaring example of that.

It should be told. All of it. The current state of history should include it all and not be relegated to "ethnic studies", "african studies" or "womens studies" classes. Including it -in age appropriate ways- is historically accurate, fair, and the absolute right thing to do.

I question the motives, integrity, and intelligence of anyone who disagrees with this.
(PS- I'm white).

This is such a straw-man argument. It mischaracterizes the type of history being taught before the CRT advocates sought to impose their views as a "long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective."

And then you double-down by imply that what the CRT advocates seek to impart is both novel and nothing more than what was already being taught in school districts like FCPS about historical racism.

I'm not sure what motivates posts like yours - it seems to be a toxic blend of ignorance, self-loathing, and self-righteousness.

Black scholars like John McWhorter who aren't weighted down by your white savior complex get it right: https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/you-are-not-a-racist-to-criticize?r=3vwvr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still in disbelief that there are people in this country who feel it is still appropriate to give the long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective. That gives a version of all of the wonderful things our white forebears did, gave us, provided, etc. This is a lie.

Yes, there were many wonderful things. But that was often on the backs, and using the lash or discrimination, of POC and other minority groups. Not to mention the treatment of women of all color. Of course, there were also wonderful things/contributions of whites but there were also those of POC, women, and other minorities. Those stories are rarely told (how old were you when you learned of the Tulsa massacre, to bring up something current? I was 47). The full picture of our founders -and forward- are also rarely given. Thomas Jefferson is only the most glaring example of that.

It should be told. All of it. The current state of history should include it all and not be relegated to "ethnic studies", "african studies" or "womens studies" classes. Including it -in age appropriate ways- is historically accurate, fair, and the absolute right thing to do.

I question the motives, integrity, and intelligence of anyone who disagrees with this.
(PS- I'm white).

This is such a straw-man argument. It mischaracterizes the type of history being taught before the CRT advocates sought to impose their views as a "long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective."

And then you double-down by imply that what the CRT advocates seek to impart is both novel and nothing more than what was already being taught in school districts like FCPS about historical racism.

I'm not sure what motivates posts like yours - it seems to be a toxic blend of ignorance, self-loathing, and self-righteousness.

Black scholars like John McWhorter who aren't weighted down by your white savior complex get it right: https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/you-are-not-a-racist-to-criticize?r=3vwvr&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

^ And the tragedy of the FCPS School Board right now is that it's composed of roughly six members who would echo everything PP had to say, five too cowardly to challenge any of it, and only one willing to speak up against the CRT trainwreck.

[Anonymous]

John McWhorter for president.
So good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still in disbelief that there are people in this country who feel it is still appropriate to give the long-running version of country that is solely from the white perspective. That gives a version of all of the wonderful things our white forebears did, gave us, provided, etc. This is a lie.

Yes, there were many wonderful things. But that was often on the backs, and using the lash or discrimination, of POC and other minority groups. Not to mention the treatment of women of all color. Of course, there were also wonderful things/contributions of whites but there were also those of POC, women, and other minorities. Those stories are rarely told (how old were you when you learned of the Tulsa massacre, to bring up something current? I was 47). The full picture of our founders -and forward- are also rarely given. Thomas Jefferson is only the most glaring example of that.

It should be told. All of it. The current state of history should include it all and not be relegated to "ethnic studies", "african studies" or "womens studies" classes. Including it -in age appropriate ways- is historically accurate, fair, and the absolute right thing to do.

I question the motives, integrity, and intelligence of anyone who disagrees with this.
(PS- I'm white).

PS- good for you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:John McWhorter for president.
So good.

Love him. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=John+McWhorter+Recent&FORM=RESTAB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:John McWhorter for president.
So good.

Love him. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=John+McWhorter+Recent&FORM=RESTAB

Stella Pekarsky seems to have some common sense as well.
I've spoken to her directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

DP. We got rid of our civics classes. You want to cancel Jefferson and what that would be doing is canceling our government.

If that's what you want, go ahead and ask for that. But we're going to disagree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

DP. It doesn't sound like you know what the words you're using mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

DP. It doesn't sound like you know what the words you're using mean.

Specifically which words?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

DP. We got rid of our civics classes. You want to cancel Jefferson and what that would be doing is canceling our government.

If that's what you want, go ahead and ask for that. But we're going to disagree with you.

And I wouldn’t expect anything different from the White Supremacists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 49 other states and tons of other countries that will let you in. Go find your people and stop living off the fruits of the white supremacists you hate.

No, white supremacists are the ones living off the fruits of others and you are only trying to confuse us otherwise.

Disagree. People are people with similar needs and wants. The government and corporations are just a group of people in power at any given time. They are not worse or better as a whole than any given victim in America. They are a reflection of ourselves and our wants and needs. The US Constitution is the longest running constitution in the world for a reason which was based off of Jefferson's call for freedom and Madison's understanding of law mainly backed by various European laws over time. Venezuela has your name on it I guess if you think the whites are so terrible here.

You're quite the patriot, aren't you? Maybe you are unfamiliar with the idea that in America, at least for the time being, one need not move/leave to offer a critical opinion of it or its' government. That just proves your ignorance and that you shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what it is to be American.

Yes, I am a proud patriot. You must just get tired of fighting so much internally is all. Why live in a country you despise? It's like clinging to a religion you don't believe in. I happen to be happy in America, happy about parts of our history. Unhappy about other parts and yes those should be worked on to bring everyone into a more equal fold. Critical Race Theory is not the way because it's a reactive method rather than a proactive method. I still feel that it's the best hope for democracy in the world. I think cultures have some interesting aspects and lessons such as eating in France, but don't think France has a better government. I don't think Venezuela has a better government. I don't even think Finland has a better government. I believe in a republic as best governance. I have traveled the world to other white majority countries and other countries where there were very few whites and just see people who set up governments differently and then react to them but with all the same basic needs. Victimizing people does not work in the long run because it doesn't create a sense of agency in people to actually make a democracy. Democracy is hard work on the individual and cooperatively. The idea that somehow these people were wonderful human beings in other countries but then when arriving in America they became horrible is just a fantasy. America was a land of opportunity and still is under the current form of government. It has its issues, but so does any country. America has survived because it has a lot of strengths and it has attracted a wide variety of people because of those strengths. All brought out by Jefferson. I'm sorry, but you can't say people want to come here for the ideals of American and somehow say that Jefferson had nothing to do with it. He had a dream for humanity and humanity across the world responded.

We all have personal demons. I still don't get why the document and his contributions to America can't also be honored. We will have to disagree I guess. I can't keep arguing the same points.

You speak more like a White Supremacist to me, than a patriot. This country we live in is has room for improvement and that’s what some of us would like to do. We should start by acknowledging the truth and if some of us don’t like a historical figure because of his actions or what he represented, that is our right. We should not pretend a person was something they weren’t and teach that to our kids.

DP. It doesn't sound like you know what the words you're using mean.

Specifically which words?

These words: "white supremacist" and "patriot"