DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to point out that within a few days this thread has almost hit 50 pages and so is on track to ramp up to the same amount as the Conn Ave bike lanes. Only proving that all of you people opposing the Conn Ave bike lanes because of entitled scofflaw cyclists or some shit are full of crap. You carbrain morons oppose anything that impedes your commute hard stop. Whether that's a bike lane, the goddamn streetcar, a bus lane, or a streetery. There's no negotiation or design consideration that DDOT or any advocates for any multimodal transportation because you can't get your head out of your ass long enough to take a step back and consider a bigger picture.

Ridiculous.

DDOT staff should come here and read this garbage so that the next time Nick Delledonne and crew show up to whine and moan they can just be ignored for the obstructionists they are.

Yes, I will own the idea that I object to government making it harder for people to use their cars, a mode of transportation that people clearly prefer. I have lived in MoCo for 30+ years and we have seen government continually try to move people to public transit by making their lives miserable. So far, it hasn't worked. Honestly, we know all of you hate Maryland commuters, but I don't think your city thrives if you make everyone want to stop going there.

DC does the same thing.

Everyone I know who doesn't have a car is using Uber and Instacart and Uber Eats

When DC and MoCo try to make things a bit better for people who are walking, biking, or taking transit, some people who think it's all about them consider it a war on cars.

A generation ago the ns of people smoked cigarettes like crazy and polluted tf out of our air indoors and outdoors with it. Inside a couple decades that about-faced. Inner city and even most suburban travel for most trips taken today by car could do that same thing once all these carbrain addled boomers and gen xers phase out. Most millennials and gen zers I know simply can't afford a car comfortably and would love to get rid of one if they had one and could.

Lol, where are of these millennials that can’t afford cars? If they existed in numbers and didn’t want a car, why would they live here?

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/actually-millennials-dont-own-fewer-cars

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/car-ownership-statistics.html

Half of GenZ is still in high school or younger.

I've got 26 people that work in my team in DC between the ages of 24 and about late 30's. I think maybe 6 or 7 of them own a car. Of the ones that do all but 1 lives outside of DC proper in like Arlington or Bethesda.

Dude in the city if you're living in an apartment or a condo you're paying like 100 to 150 a month for the privilege of parking your car that you barely use. Its just not worth it at all. Can rent a car from free2move or zipcars no problem on the offchance you want one to go apple picking or whatever.

The people I know who don't have cars might as well have a car because they use Uber to get everywhere, order their groceries through Instacart and Amazon and their takeout through UberEats. IMO, they are responsible for making traffic and safety worse in the city because now we have everyone and their brother driving as part of a side hustle to serve those who eschew cars, but still want the convenience that cars provide.

Lol! That’s a new one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just want to point out that within a few days this thread has almost hit 50 pages and so is on track to ramp up to the same amount as the Conn Ave bike lanes. Only proving that all of you people opposing the Conn Ave bike lanes because of entitled scofflaw cyclists or some shit are full of crap. You carbrain morons oppose anything that impedes your commute hard stop. Whether that's a bike lane, the goddamn streetcar, a bus lane, or a streetery. There's no negotiation or design consideration that DDOT or any advocates for any multimodal transportation because you can't get your head out of your ass long enough to take a step back and consider a bigger picture.

Ridiculous.

DDOT staff should come here and read this garbage so that the next time Nick Delledonne and crew show up to whine and moan they can just be ignored for the obstructionists they are.

Yes, I will own the idea that I object to government making it harder for people to use their cars, a mode of transportation that people clearly prefer. I have lived in MoCo for 30+ years and we have seen government continually try to move people to public transit by making their lives miserable. So far, it hasn't worked. Honestly, we know all of you hate Maryland commuters, but I don't think your city thrives if you make everyone want to stop going there.

DC does the same thing.

Everyone I know who doesn't have a car is using Uber and Instacart and Uber Eats

When DC and MoCo try to make things a bit better for people who are walking, biking, or taking transit, some people who think it's all about them consider it a war on cars.

A generation ago the ns of people smoked cigarettes like crazy and polluted tf out of our air indoors and outdoors with it. Inside a couple decades that about-faced. Inner city and even most suburban travel for most trips taken today by car could do that same thing once all these carbrain addled boomers and gen xers phase out. Most millennials and gen zers I know simply can't afford a car comfortably and would love to get rid of one if they had one and could.

Lol, where are of these millennials that can’t afford cars? If they existed in numbers and didn’t want a car, why would they live here?

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/actually-millennials-dont-own-fewer-cars

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/car-ownership-statistics.html

Half of GenZ is still in high school or younger.

I've got 26 people that work in my team in DC between the ages of 24 and about late 30's. I think maybe 6 or 7 of them own a car. Of the ones that do all but 1 lives outside of DC proper in like Arlington or Bethesda.

Dude in the city if you're living in an apartment or a condo you're paying like 100 to 150 a month for the privilege of parking your car that you barely use. Its just not worth it at all. Can rent a car from free2move or zipcars no problem on the offchance you want one to go apple picking or whatever.

The people I know who don't have cars might as well have a car because they use Uber to get everywhere, order their groceries through Instacart and Amazon and their takeout through UberEats. IMO, they are responsible for making traffic and safety worse in the city because now we have everyone and their brother driving as part of a side hustle to serve those who eschew cars, but still want the convenience that cars provide.

Lol! That’s a new one.

It's not a new one. There is a poster on this forum who claims to believe that everyone who doesn't own a car in DC gets every meal via DoorDash. (Of course the DoorDash drivers are now using mopeds and bicycles, not cars.)

[Anonymous]

Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

NIMBYs seem to think everyone is completely stupid and will never see through their bullshit.

Unfortunately this seems to hold true for many of our elected officials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

NIMBYs seem to think everyone is completely stupid and will never see through their bullshit.

Unfortunately this seems to hold true for many of our elected officials.

They're not NIMBYs though. They don't want bike lanes or bus lanes in their own back yard, but they also don't want them in anybody else's back yard. They just plain don't want bike lanes or bus lanes, anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

NIMBYs seem to think everyone is completely stupid and will never see through their bullshit.

Unfortunately this seems to hold true for many of our elected officials.

They're not NIMBYs though. They don't want bike lanes or bus lanes in their own back yard, but they also don't want them in anybody else's back yard. They just plain don't want bike lanes or bus lanes, anywhere.

Misanthropes is probably a better word for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

NIMBYs seem to think everyone is completely stupid and will never see through their bullshit.

Unfortunately this seems to hold true for many of our elected officials.

They're not NIMBYs though. They don't want bike lanes or bus lanes in their own back yard, but they also don't want them in anybody else's back yard. They just plain don't want bike lanes or bus lanes, anywhere.

Misanthropes is probably a better word for them.

Most likely their livelihood is dependent on permanent car-dependency. Its the same people opposing different projects with the same arguments. They can't be "local" to both, so theiy are ideologues or lobbyists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.


It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.


It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

I'm sure that it's a complete coincidence that the positions assumed by those who claim bus lanes / bike lanes "make streets less safe" align almost perfectly with the interests of suburban commuters who couldn't care less about the safety and comfort of DC residents who use both arterial and side streets to navigate their city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.


It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

I'm sure that it's a complete coincidence that the positions assumed by those who claim bus lanes / bike lanes "make streets less safe" align almost perfectly with the interests of suburban commuters who couldn't care less about the safety and comfort of DC residents who use both arterial and side streets to navigate their city.

Or. The DC residents that live in Shepherd Park, Chevy Chase, Colonial Village, Barnaby Woods, North Portal and Hawthorne who are most impacted by these changes and that you think live in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure Waze runs DDOT. Why would you want to redirect the traffic from a major thoroughfare onto all the surrounding side streets?

The concurrence of the talking points being deployed against this proposal with what was trotted out in response to Conn Ave Concept C is absolutely stunning.

Same complete lack of understanding of transportation dynamics. And probably the same exact people.

No, no, it's very different!

On Connecticut Avenue: We oppose bike lanes, they will kill children, Connecticut Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars, we would support bus lanes.

On Georgia Avenue: We oppose bus lanes, they will kill children, Georgia Avenue is safe, the real problem is double parking, this is all part of the war on cars.

(Actually it's not different at all.)

Or

On Connecticut: We don't care about bike lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate two lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Connecticut and the surrounding streets.

On Georgia: We don't care about bus lanes but it is a bad idea to eliminate half of the traffic lanes because the increased congestion will make things less safe both on Georgia and the surrounding streets.

You're right. It is the same.

Yes, you're right. In both cases, you are opposing actions that would make the street safer and more comfortable for people not in cars, because you are prioritizing the movement of cars.

No. In both cases the proposed changes make streets less safe and less confortable for everyone.

It's even more galling when one realizes that the exact same dangerous plan has been proposed for every North-South route in NW without a single analysis of what the already implemented changes have done.

This is true, if "everyone" means "people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully". Actually no, it's still not true, because it will even make those streets safer for people in cars who don't want to drive slowly and carefully.