The state of MCPS is atrocious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if its UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if its UMD.

Please specify exactly how taking Algebra in 8th grade prevents a kid from majoring in math or science or getting into a competitive college. Please be specific about the courses it prevents the kid from taking, rather than just saying “upper level science.”

For example: is the completion of calculus a prerequisite for AP science courses? My understanding is you can take AP physics and calc at the same time. AP chem and bio have no calc.

So exactly which upper level science courses are we talking about?

[Anonymous]

Sorry: only AP Physics C requires calc. AP Physics 1 and 2 do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

MCPS does not offer more advanced high school math courses than top private schools.

We have proven this time and again by posting links to Landon, Holton, GDS, and others in this thread.

So the premise of this debate is simply false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

MCPS does not offer more advanced high school math courses than top private schools.

We have proven this time and again by posting links to Landon, Holton, GDS, and others in this thread.

So the premise of this debate is simply false.

Actually it does. And, it allows for options at community and regular colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

The discussion is about MCPS. And, certain majors for UMD and other schools are extremely competitive, so they absolutely need Calculus in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

And this is the misinformation that MCPS is trying to dispel. Name a HS class that REQUIRES a kid to be taking math beyond Calculus? If a kid take Alg1 in 8th or 9th grade they can still be on track for Calc by senior year.

You simply aren't caring what others are saying. The issue isn't what kids need to take and if they need math beyond Calculus. But, kids on the higher tracks need the upper math in order to take the upper science classes. How hard is that to get. So, you take Calculus senior year, you are missing out on some possible science classes. Kids who transfer from privates often have to take geometry and other classes in the summer to play catch up to take those classes.

Actually, I think PP had a valid question. Which upper science classes have Calculus as a prerequisite? According to the course catalogue, it’s not AP Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Physics C, IB Physics or IB Chemistry. Nor is it Anatomy and Physiology, Astronomy, or Molecular Biology. I’m sure that there are upper science classes in college that may require Calculus, but taking Calculus as a high school senior will provide ample preparation. For that matter, I suspect that in most cases a college student could take Calculus as a Freshman and still major in science with three years to take those upper level classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

MCPS does not offer more advanced high school math courses than top private schools.

We have proven this time and again by posting links to Landon, Holton, GDS, and others in this thread.

So the premise of this debate is simply false.

Actually it does. And, it allows for options at community and regular colleges.

Provide proof that MCPS offers more advanced math at the high school level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

The discussion is about MCPS. And, certain majors for UMD and other schools are extremely competitive, so they absolutely need Calculus in HS.

How many times do we have to tell you that taking Algebra in 8th grade still puts a kid on track for calc in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

MCPS does not offer more advanced high school math courses than top private schools.

We have proven this time and again by posting links to Landon, Holton, GDS, and others in this thread.

So the premise of this debate is simply false.

I think the public/private math debate is ridiculous. My kids went to public (MCPS), so I can’t speak directly about private. My impression is that at lower levels, private math instruction is generally stronger (although it probably varies across individual schools). Further, I think that both public and private schools offer strong upper level options for top math students. That being said, technically, I think MCPS does probably offer more advanced math courses IN THE MAGNETS, based on earlier references to those top privates combining to offer a small combined class in Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations. The magnets have classes that go beyond that.
https://mbhs.edu/departments/magnet/courses_math.php

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

MCPS does not offer more advanced high school math courses than top private schools.

We have proven this time and again by posting links to Landon, Holton, GDS, and others in this thread.

So the premise of this debate is simply false.

I think the public/private math debate is ridiculous. My kids went to public (MCPS), so I can’t speak directly about private. My impression is that at lower levels, private math instruction is generally stronger (although it probably varies across individual schools). Further, I think that both public and private schools offer strong upper level options for top math students. That being said, technically, I think MCPS does probably offer more advanced math courses IN THE MAGNETS, based on earlier references to those top privates combining to offer a small combined class in Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations. The magnets have classes that go beyond that.
https://mbhs.edu/departments/magnet/courses_math.php

I agree on the magnet programs. But that’s to be expected.

To bolster your point about strong private school math instruction: kids from my daughter’s K-8 get into those magnet programs every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry: only AP Physics C requires calc. AP Physics 1 and 2 do not.

According to the course bulletin, AP Physics C does not require Calculus as a prerequisite. The description says the courses use Calculus, so I’m sure prior knowledge of Calculus is helpful, but presumably the class is structured to either coordinate with a standard Calculus course the student can take concurrently, or to provide direct instruction in whatever Calculus may be needed.
https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/SCI2065A
https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/SCI2064A
https://coursebulletin.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/CourseDetails/Index/SCI2063A

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

The discussion is about MCPS. And, certain majors for UMD and other schools are extremely competitive, so they absolutely need Calculus in HS.

How many times do we have to tell you that taking Algebra in 8th grade still puts a kid on track for calc in high school?

If a child has the ability - which can be demonstrated by assessments - why shouldn’t they be able to take Algebra in 6th grade? Students will only be able to achieve the maximum level MCPS provides access to.

It may not be convenient for MCPS when a child demonstrates a unique gift in a subject area. However, should that child’s gift be squashed so he/she can fit in with the middle 50%?

Students can only rise up to the expectations and opportunities MCPS sets for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is a DCUM message board so clearly it impacts some of our kids who want to major in math or science in college and go to a competitive college, even if it’s UMD.

And I’m sure they will. So what’s the problem, exactly? If your child goes to MCPS, I suspect you’re happy they offer so many advanced Math classes. If your child attends private, then it’s likely they are still on track to take Calc before graduation (and is therefore still “ahead.”) I’m not seeing the problem.

And if they aren’t on track to take Calc, then they have good company and will still get into colleges.

The discussion is about MCPS. And, certain majors for UMD and other schools are extremely competitive, so they absolutely need Calculus in HS.

How many times do we have to tell you that taking Algebra in 8th grade still puts a kid on track for calc in high school?

If a child has the ability - which can be demonstrated by assessments - why shouldn’t they be able to take Algebra in 6th grade? Students will only be able to achieve the maximum level MCPS provides access to.

It may not be convenient for MCPS when a child demonstrates a unique gift in a subject area. However, should that child’s gift be squashed so he/she can fit in with the middle 50%?

Students can only rise up to the expectations and opportunities MCPS sets for them.

Do we need to remind you again of the many studies showing that over-acceleration in math can be detrimental, even for kids who understand the material?

I also seriously doubt there’s more than a very select few kids who truly can handle Algebra in 6th grade.