The state of MCPS is atrocious

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

1. Private schools absolutely have different math tracks in MS.

2. You have yet to post any evidence of your claim that private school kids end up behind in math in HS.

They don't have the same math tracks as public except a rare few. Very smart kids in private we know didn't start Algebra till 8th grade, so they are a year behind the smart public school kids and its messing up science and other classes.

I don't need to post evidence. You are trying to justify your kids being in private. It's ok they are. I don't get why you need to be defensive and post how bad MCPS is to justify your choice. Smart kids will be just fine in MCPS. It's the middle of the road kids who basically get ignored who will struggle the most.

Here is Landon, well known decent school in MoCo as comparison: I'm assuming Form 2 is 8th grade, they start Algebra in 8th. Thats a year behind some kids in MCPS.

https://www.landon.net/uploaded/Back_to_School/2018_BTS_Portal/All-School/2018-2019-Course-of-Study.pdf

"Form II Algebra I
Algebra I is a comprehensive study of algebraic fundamentals beginning with the basic operations of real numbers and running through the more sophisticated material dealing with quadratics. Emphasis is on operations with real numbers, solving and graphing linear equations, solving word problems, systems of equations (solving by graphing, addition/multiplication and substitution), exponents, radicals, and factoring. This course prepares students for subsequent courses in algebra and geometry."

Bullis looks like they offer Algebra in 7th so they clearly have a better math track for smarter kids.
https://bullis.instructure.com/courses/5771

Landon also has
" Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations (H) Landon-Holton Coordinate
Program" in the catalog, so obviously they allow students to go up a year starting in Form I or Form II .

It's a joint program with Holton, and private school classes are tiny, so very few students do it.

[Anonymous]

Here's the secret to math:

Curriculum and instruction matters very little, as long as the curriculum is large enough that the student doesn't run out of material.

What matters is:
1. Intelligence (this alone can get you through prealgebra)
2. Interest (motivation to do more work and progress faster)
3. Doing problems. A lot of problems. (This cements knowledge and understanding.)
4. Tutoring when they get stuck or develop a bad habit.(being stuck wastes time. No matter what their level, a student should be challenging themselves so they get stuck).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

1. Private schools absolutely have different math tracks in MS.

2. You have yet to post any evidence of your claim that private school kids end up behind in math in HS.

They don't have the same math tracks as public except a rare few. Very smart kids in private we know didn't start Algebra till 8th grade, so they are a year behind the smart public school kids and its messing up science and other classes.

I don't need to post evidence. You are trying to justify your kids being in private. It's ok they are. I don't get why you need to be defensive and post how bad MCPS is to justify your choice. Smart kids will be just fine in MCPS. It's the middle of the road kids who basically get ignored who will struggle the most.

Here is Landon, well known decent school in MoCo as comparison: I'm assuming Form 2 is 8th grade, they start Algebra in 8th. Thats a year behind some kids in MCPS.

https://www.landon.net/uploaded/Back_to_School/2018_BTS_Portal/All-School/2018-2019-Course-of-Study.pdf

"Form II Algebra I
Algebra I is a comprehensive study of algebraic fundamentals beginning with the basic operations of real numbers and running through the more sophisticated material dealing with quadratics. Emphasis is on operations with real numbers, solving and graphing linear equations, solving word problems, systems of equations (solving by graphing, addition/multiplication and substitution), exponents, radicals, and factoring. This course prepares students for subsequent courses in algebra and geometry."

Bullis looks like they offer Algebra in 7th so they clearly have a better math track for smarter kids.
https://bullis.instructure.com/courses/5771

Landon also has
" Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations (H) Landon-Holton Coordinate
Program" in the catalog, so obviously they allow students to go up a year starting in Form I or Form II .

It's a joint program with Holton, and private school classes are tiny, so very few students do it.

In addition, GDS offers differential equations, linear algebra I and II, and multivariate calc. They also offer a math seminar where kids go beyond the typical HS math curriculum. They wouldn’t offer these courses if they didn’t have kids who were qualified to take them. This whole notion that private school kids are behind in math is simply BS.

Course description for the math seminar:

Prerequisite: Calculus or UL Calculus or permission of the department

This course will introduce students to a variety of topics outside of the typical high school curriculum, including several usually found in college-level mathematics elective courses. Topics might include, but are not limited to, point-set topology, paradoxes, group theory, and formal logic. The course will emphasize the power and beauty of mathematics through the study of these topics and by encouraging exploration and self-discovery of some of the important ideas. Students are expected to complete weekly problem sets as well as complete a presentation on an independent topic outside of the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not necessarily PP. I needed more time to get math. I needed my teacher to spend the majority of the class showing us how to solve problem. Then I needed the equivalent of another class to do some problems together and then on my own. Class didn't work that way so I'd go to my teacher at lunch to get this extra help. I had an excellent teacher for algebra 1 and 2.

Now everything is auto graded on the app's and the teachers don't review the assignments. They might get a dozen or so problems before they move on to the next topic. Teacher does a 5-10 minute lecture and then they work on problems. Then they have a lot of free classes for kids to do catch up on the assignments they didn't do. Its nothing like how we were taught.

This was at a private school. I sent my kid to a public ES and it left a lot to be desired so I switched him to a private school where he could get the help he needed (he needed help in math like I did).

And, that makes sense. We did private early on, left for MCPS, then looked at privates again but didn't find one that was the right fit/cost. If my child was struggling in academics I'd probably do private like we did early on as I don't think MCPS is good with kids who are doing ok but struggling as those are the ones who really get lost/not a lot of help. Or, even for mild special needs. Our ES focuses on the kids who have the most severe SN so the kids who still needed support/IEP's often didn't get what they needed for lack of staffing. Smart kids will do ok most anywhere.

You hit the nail on the head. My gifted DS has done fine..his writing is not as good as it could be but it's sufficient- I have barely worked with him. My DD on the other hand who is above average intellectually but has some learning and attention issues is getting a subpar education. The school could care less because she is not severe in their eyes and so she gets very limited meaningful support at school. It is a constant effort on my behalf to make sure she has functional academic skills. I should not have to hire a lawyer and advocate and have her privately evaluated. I shouldn't have to constantly tutor her. If I didn't intervene, I doubt she would be reading and writing at all - hypothetically, if I hadn't done anything, by 4th grade when she would be 2 years below grade level- maybe mcps would give her an IEP and give her a couple hours of weekly support- she would basically be behind forever, feel like she was not smart, and the neural pathways for reading would close- and it would be that much harder to teach her each successive year. So I do this shitty juggling act. And it makes me really mad for all the other kids who don't have the resources to be able to do what I do for her.
Talk about inequity .

+1000 MCPS / Dr. McKnight / BOE have clearly shown their agenda for SN students. They hired a lawyer who has a long track history of litigation with parents to be the new Associate Superintendent for Special Education. MCPS has an unlimited budget to fight parents so students are not properly evaluated and IEPS are not fully implemented. MCPS has also left many Special Education jobs empty. They pay such a low salary for Special Education Teachers, Para Educators, Occupational Therapists, Speech Therapists, School Psychologists, etc. that it’s difficult to attract people for these jobs. The staff that are in MCPS have seen their workload increased while they try to cover for the vacancies.

MCPS has lost their focus on the needs of students. Education and student learning is not the priority.

MCPS did not leave special education jobs open. There were not people to fill said jobs. MCPS is offering an 18% hourly bump for ESY to get people to teach. And the Associate Superintendent for Special Education stated publicist a board meeting that space for private/special placements was at a premium. That didn’t mean there were kids who didn’t need the placement or didn’t qualify, it just meant the placement wasn’t available.

MCPS has problems just like every other school district but trust it better than many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not necessarily PP. I needed more time to get math. I needed my teacher to spend the majority of the class showing us how to solve problem. Then I needed the equivalent of another class to do some problems together and then on my own. Class didn't work that way so I'd go to my teacher at lunch to get this extra help. I had an excellent teacher for algebra 1 and 2.

Now everything is auto graded on the app's and the teachers don't review the assignments. They might get a dozen or so problems before they move on to the next topic. Teacher does a 5-10 minute lecture and then they work on problems. Then they have a lot of free classes for kids to do catch up on the assignments they didn't do. Its nothing like how we were taught.

This was at a private school. I sent my kid to a public ES and it left a lot to be desired so I switched him to a private school where he could get the help he needed (he needed help in math like I did).

And, that makes sense. We did private early on, left for MCPS, then looked at privates again but didn't find one that was the right fit/cost. If my child was struggling in academics I'd probably do private like we did early on as I don't think MCPS is good with kids who are doing ok but struggling as those are the ones who really get lost/not a lot of help. Or, even for mild special needs. Our ES focuses on the kids who have the most severe SN so the kids who still needed support/IEP's often didn't get what they needed for lack of staffing. Smart kids will do ok most anywhere.

You hit the nail on the head. My gifted DS has done fine..his writing is not as good as it could be but it's sufficient- I have barely worked with him. My DD on the other hand who is above average intellectually but has some learning and attention issues is getting a subpar education. The school could care less because she is not severe in their eyes and so she gets very limited meaningful support at school. It is a constant effort on my behalf to make sure she has functional academic skills. I should not have to hire a lawyer and advocate and have her privately evaluated. I shouldn't have to constantly tutor her. If I didn't intervene, I doubt she would be reading and writing at all - hypothetically, if I hadn't done anything, by 4th grade when she would be 2 years below grade level- maybe mcps would give her an IEP and give her a couple hours of weekly support- she would basically be behind forever, feel like she was not smart, and the neural pathways for reading would close- and it would be that much harder to teach her each successive year. So I do this shitty juggling act. And it makes me really mad for all the other kids who don't have the resources to be able to do what I do for her.
Talk about inequity .

+1000 MCPS / Dr. McKnight / BOE have clearly shown their agenda for SN students. They hired a lawyer who has a long track history of litigation with parents to be the new Associate Superintendent for Special Education. MCPS has an unlimited budget to fight parents so students are not properly evaluated and IEPS are not fully implemented. MCPS has also left many Special Education jobs empty. They pay such a low salary for Special Education Teachers, Para Educators, Occupational Therapists, Speech Therapists, School Psychologists, etc. that it’s difficult to attract people for these jobs. The staff that are in MCPS have seen their workload increased while they try to cover for the vacancies.

MCPS has lost their focus on the needs of students. Education and student learning is not the priority.

MCPS did not leave special education jobs open. There were not people to fill said jobs. MCPS is offering an 18% hourly bump for ESY to get people to teach. And the Associate Superintendent for Special Education stated publicist a board meeting that space for private/special placements was at a premium. That didn’t mean there were kids who didn’t need the placement or didn’t qualify, it just meant the placement wasn’t available.

MCPS has problems just like every other school district but trust it better than many.

I hope you aren’t an educator. That post is nearly incoherent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

And this is the misinformation that MCPS is trying to dispel. Name a HS class that REQUIRES a kid to be taking math beyond Calculus? If a kid take Alg1 in 8th or 9th grade they can still be on track for Calc by senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

And this is the misinformation that MCPS is trying to dispel. Name a HS class that REQUIRES a kid to be taking math beyond Calculus? If a kid take Alg1 in 8th or 9th grade they can still be on track for Calc by senior year.

Right. This is what’s so weird to me about these posts claiming private school kids are behind.

A kid can take Algebra I in 8th and still take even BC calc in senior year.

I haven’t found a private school that doesn’t allow for Algebra I in 8th.

[Anonymous]

Take Holton for example. They don’t differentiate in math at all until 9th grade. But if you look at the flow chart for math progression in HS, even a kid who doesn’t accelerate at all ends up in AB calc senior year.

https://www.holton-arms.edu/scholar/course-of-study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

And this is the misinformation that MCPS is trying to dispel. Name a HS class that REQUIRES a kid to be taking math beyond Calculus? If a kid take Alg1 in 8th or 9th grade they can still be on track for Calc by senior year.

You simply aren't caring what others are saying. The issue isn't what kids need to take and if they need math beyond Calculus. But, kids on the higher tracks need the upper math in order to take the upper science classes. How hard is that to get. So, you take Calculus senior year, you are missing out on some possible science classes. Kids who transfer from privates often have to take geometry and other classes in the summer to play catch up to take those classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take Holton for example. They don’t differentiate in math at all until 9th grade. But if you look at the flow chart for math progression in HS, even a kid who doesn’t accelerate at all ends up in AB calc senior year.

https://www.holton-arms.edu/scholar/course-of-study

Holton has Algebra in 7th but its a two year class.

https://www.holton-arms.edu/scholar/course-of-study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take Holton for example. They don’t differentiate in math at all until 9th grade. But if you look at the flow chart for math progression in HS, even a kid who doesn’t accelerate at all ends up in AB calc senior year.

https://www.holton-arms.edu/scholar/course-of-study

Holton has Algebra in 7th but its a two year class.

https://www.holton-arms.edu/scholar/course-of-study

Right. They don’t allow any kids to finish Algebra any earlier than end of 8th grade. All kids do the 2-year Algebra sequence. It seems to have zero impact on kids’ ability to reach at least AB calc by senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if your source is from 2019, it’s irrelevant. COVID revealed to a ton of parents how awful MCPS really is.

Moreover, only 17% of the people contacted for the 2019 survey responded.

https://moco360.media/2019/10/03/parents-pleased-with-mcps-survey-shows/

And yet they keep sending their kids to MCPS schools, while they themselves do little to affect any change or want to increase taxes to pay for their champagne wishes.

What choice do most of us have? Not everyone is wealthy or living in a "good" school district. The only "affordable" privates are Catholic schools and that's only for elementary. Only a few Catholic schools are remotely welcoming to non-Catholic/non-Christian families. The rest of us cannot afford $50-60K privates, and there are very few privates let alone non-religious ones.

And, the privates don't have the same math track come MS/HS.

Every private I’ve seen has MS/HS math tracks.

They aren't equal. Of course they have MS/HS math tracks but often Algebra isn't started till 8th, or even 9th, vs. MCPS is 6/7th grade.

And it’s been shown that pushing kids too fast in math isn’t always appropriate. It’s not as though MCPS kids are excelling in math; far from it. So this wouldn’t be what I brag about.

This! I have a friend who teaches math at a state university. He says it would be better if middle/high schools slowed down and spent more time on Algebra instead of pushing kids through at young ages. The number of remedial Math classes at his university is growing.

MCPS curriculum experts testified to this at the BOE meeting recently. Compacted math is leading to superficial and poor understanding of algebraic fundamentals.

Compacted math or AIM? I would think AIM is more the issue as compacted math is 4-5th. I didn't think compacted math was bad but it focused too much on strategies vs. doing actual problems and math facts (though math facts should be much younger).

I think they mentioned both? Basically, we're either cramming too much too soon or we're prioritizing rapid advancement in math or substantive understanding of the subject matter.

The issue was rushing to take Algebra and the stigma around not getting to it sooner instead of when a child is prepared, be that 7th,8th, or 9th grade.

It's not rushing and in MS, kids have a huge option of classes and they can start Algebra in 7-9th grades, some can start in 6th. Its not a once size fits all like your are making it. Most smarter kids take AIM in 6th, which is pre-algebra.

I guess you didn’t read the entire comment. If it’s about rushing that is propelled by stigma or wrong beliefs. People believe that getting to Algebra by 6th or 7th grade and definitely by 8th is the only path or their kid will be left behind. They believe that just because kids are doing well in math in 1st grade they should automatically be in the accelerated path and compacted math. Some people won’t even listen to teachers and administrators that their kid is on level or needs help even when the evidence is presented. Also teachers don’t really understand all the math concepts themselves, at least not at a depth that allows explaining in differently way depending on the student(for that point neither do a lot of parents).

The above starts in ES. As others have noted, not everyone needs to be in compacted math. Additionally, kids need more exposure to word problems and real world application of math.

For the smarter/advanced kids, they need to start in 7th if they are going to go to MCPS for high school as it impacts other classes they take. It's the same class either way. There are multiple levels in MS for kids of all needs but the discussion was comparing some of the "top" privates to MCPS and while they do have advanced classes, their math in MS is where they are lacking.

Agree some of the teachers don't understand it well enough to teach it but we've done private summer math classes and they ok to far worse than the MCPS ones. The ones that were better were the structured classes with a textbook and experienced teacher.

It's very easy to get higher MAP scores by working a bit ahead with workbooks with ES kids. It's harder once they hit Algebra or AIM if parents don't remember the math but once you get into AIM/Algebra the MAP scores don't matter as you already are on the track.

Most privates have one - two choice classes each grade level for math at best. So, MCPS wins in MS for differentiation. I looked at privates in ES and most didn't offer differentiation, a few promised extra but I doubt they did it.

But, the real issue comes with the advanced kids in MCPS with higher level classes as they all work together. Often the private school kids will take geometry in summer school to catch up to take the higher level science classes. So, its something to think about when you are looking at MS.

And this is the misinformation that MCPS is trying to dispel. Name a HS class that REQUIRES a kid to be taking math beyond Calculus? If a kid take Alg1 in 8th or 9th grade they can still be on track for Calc by senior year.

You simply aren't caring what others are saying. The issue isn't what kids need to take and if they need math beyond Calculus. But, kids on the higher tracks need the upper math in order to take the upper science classes. How hard is that to get. So, you take Calculus senior year, you are missing out on some possible science classes. Kids who transfer from privates often have to take geometry and other classes in the summer to play catch up to take those classes.

You keep saying this about the geometry thing over the summer, but you’ve provided zero proof.

Also, how many kids are honestly transferring from top private schools to public? At my kid’s K-8, maybe 5-6 kids out of the graduating class of 50-55 go to public school.

[Anonymous]

Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally, how many kids are honestly going behind calc BC by their senior year? That’s so incredibly rare and you’re acting as though it’s the norm.

I just did some searching, and the consensus across 7-8 different sites I checked is that only about 20% of American high school students even take Calculus.

Incidentally, I did come across several reports from legitimate sites and university websites warning about premature pushes into advanced math.

This is a very DCUM problem. Clearly students are getting into universities without rushing to take BC Calc. I think we can all calm down a bit about this.

This is just a non-issue that some posters are clinging to because it’s the only thing they can find to try to substantiate some notion that MCPS is stronger than private schools.