McLean to Explore Separating from FC & FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just noting this...
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/6/20853091/school-secession-racial-segregation-louisiana-alabama

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households. Those differences mean that when a splinter district breaks off it can reinforce, and in some cases worsen, school segregation.

If you think this just happens in the South...looking at Mass (where there is an active, voluntary program (METCO) to try to integrate schools across districts), here are the Boston/Newton numbers...with METCO students included.

Boston:
42.5% Hispanic
33% Black
14% White
9% Asian

Newton: (METCO enrollment about 3% of overall total)
8% Hispanic
5% Black
61% White
19% Asian


Overview of METCO https://theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/boston-metco-program-school-desegregation/584224/

that's why this won't happen. McLean can most likely get Town status pretty easily, but moving from Town to City status is a lot harder and much more difficult politically

But the schools impacted would not change the current racial makeup. At least not initially.

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households.

You posting this doesn't not make it any less true that McLean's demographics are what they are. Whether they are included in FCPS statistics or not the kids on the eastern end of the county do not have access to McLean schools. What good is McLean doing them on the opposite end of the county, other than McLean providing tax dollars? The demographics don't change. It would be moving numbers around on paper without any actual impact to students.

yes, the rich people fleeing results in a poorer more segregated district, that's the whole point of the article

I can't tell if you're intentionally not seeing the forest for the trees or what.

McLean is already so physically isolated from the more "diverse" areas of the county that it makes no difference except on paper if they separate. Or are you actually saying that you just want to keep McLean taxes solely for the financial security it provides for everyone else? If that is what is being said, just come out with it instead of hiding behind "demographics" as a roadblock.

that's the whole point of the article. I guess reading isn't a strong point? Schools like hybla valley depends on tax payers from other parts of the county. When those tax payers leave, the poor schools get poorer. It's not a difficult concept. McLean may have a good argument, but McLean can't make the decision unilaterally, and the state commission is going to care about the schools like Woodlawn

No, I understand the article perfectly. What you have yet to explain is why funding schools in Hybla Valley is the responsibility of McLean. To be clear, you don't actually care about the demographics of McLean leaving (because removing those demographics would actually boost the diversity as a percentage of the remaining FCPS). You just want McLean tax dollars. Which is what I said previously. Perhaps reading isn't your strong point?

That’s the way government works, places with more money support places with less be it McLean in FCPS, Fairfax in Virginia, Connecticut in the United States... if you want somewhere that you don’t have have to support less fortunate people, Somalia is pretty free from taxation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's going to be my line when they ask for feedback during tonight's community meeting: "You think I give a [expletive] about Scotty B."

Good enough for teachers, good enough for parents. LOL.

Bad enough for the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is true, it's a good illustration of how at least 1/2 the School Board thinks (they were following this rabid account), and why they won't give McLean the time of day.

https://twitter.com/AsraNomani/status/1336026069191827463

That seems quite a stretch... I follow plenty of highly vocal accounts on issues I care about (though more in the tech policy space) that I often disagree with, because I want to hear what arguments are being made and not live in some isolated filter bubble. I'd think/hope that would be true for elected officials as well. You can make the argument they are too SJW-focused based on the merits of what they say and focus on, but pointing to what twitter accounts the do/do not follow seems a couple bridges too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just noting this...
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/6/20853091/school-secession-racial-segregation-louisiana-alabama

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households. Those differences mean that when a splinter district breaks off it can reinforce, and in some cases worsen, school segregation.

If you think this just happens in the South...looking at Mass (where there is an active, voluntary program (METCO) to try to integrate schools across districts), here are the Boston/Newton numbers...with METCO students included.

Boston:
42.5% Hispanic
33% Black
14% White
9% Asian

Newton: (METCO enrollment about 3% of overall total)
8% Hispanic
5% Black
61% White
19% Asian


Overview of METCO https://theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/boston-metco-program-school-desegregation/584224/

that's why this won't happen. McLean can most likely get Town status pretty easily, but moving from Town to City status is a lot harder and much more difficult politically

But the schools impacted would not change the current racial makeup. At least not initially.

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households.

You posting this doesn't not make it any less true that McLean's demographics are what they are. Whether they are included in FCPS statistics or not the kids on the eastern end of the county do not have access to McLean schools. What good is McLean doing them on the opposite end of the county, other than McLean providing tax dollars? The demographics don't change. It would be moving numbers around on paper without any actual impact to students.

yes, the rich people fleeing results in a poorer more segregated district, that's the whole point of the article

I can't tell if you're intentionally not seeing the forest for the trees or what.

McLean is already so physically isolated from the more "diverse" areas of the county that it makes no difference except on paper if they separate. Or are you actually saying that you just want to keep McLean taxes solely for the financial security it provides for everyone else? If that is what is being said, just come out with it instead of hiding behind "demographics" as a roadblock.

that's the whole point of the article. I guess reading isn't a strong point? Schools like hybla valley depends on tax payers from other parts of the county. When those tax payers leave, the poor schools get poorer. It's not a difficult concept. McLean may have a good argument, but McLean can't make the decision unilaterally, and the state commission is going to care about the schools like Woodlawn

No, I understand the article perfectly. What you have yet to explain is why funding schools in Hybla Valley is the responsibility of McLean. To be clear, you don't actually care about the demographics of McLean leaving (because removing those demographics would actually boost the diversity as a percentage of the remaining FCPS). You just want McLean tax dollars. Which is what I said previously. Perhaps reading isn't your strong point?

That’s the way government works, places with more money support places with less be it McLean in FCPS, Fairfax in Virginia, Connecticut in the United States... if you want somewhere that you don’t have have to support less fortunate people, Somalia is pretty free from taxation

well when all else fails throw in the ole Somalia bit. If you don't have an actual argument then just say so.

McLean should be no more responsible for Hybla Valley than the City of Alexandria (which is actually closer). If FCPS/FC is no longer working for McLean, its time to find a new solution for McLean kids.

[Anonymous]

Good luck. Join the MCA - there website does not say how many members they have.

I see these as your biggest hurdles so I would focus on these:

The VA law that currently prohibits exactly what you want to do.

The lack of incentive for VA state and FC to support this after the tax incentives and infrastructure investments poured into the NoVA/Tysons area, including a new Metro line - they will not have any interest in losing any portion of this tax base - commercial, residential and income wise.

Convincing the citizens of McLean (average age of 48) that they should take fiscal responsibilities for the schools when the first set of bills will be expensive additions for not just the HS, but the overcrowded ES.

On the other hand, I am cheering you on - FCPS needs a wake up call to figure out how to be more responsive and more transparent. I just think it is an uphill fight. Will follow with interest, so please report back when efforts get more organized than DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, they can’t invest the same money in McLean that they are investing in other less overcrowded schools because they might want to change the demographics there so more URMs can enjoy a shitty modular and trailers like the kids at McLean? No wonder FCPS is cratering.

they just invested it in Langley. You're district got a massive renovation, now other districts get massive renovations, McLean will probably be in the next group

What "district"? The only district now is FCPS, and within FCPS Langley and McLean are in different regions (Langley - Region 1; McLean - Region 2), not that it should matter. And FCPS has steadfastly refused to offer McLean any capital investment other than a second-hand modular when less overcrowded schools built after McLean are getting architect-designed, permanent additions that will end up costly about $20M.

It's hard to take the "pipe down" posts seriously when they are based on bad assumptions. We've been trying to get FCPS's attention for years. First they lied to us, then they ignored us, and soon they will try and cram a boundary change with Langley down our throats that will leave McLean with fewer teachers, fewer electives, and an aging infrastructure. They are hurting our community and we are tired of being played. If there is ANY way to exit Fairfax County and FCPS, we will pursue it.

^ and I will say to Langley we do appreciate that you are willing to accept more kids, but we also know that you are worried about kids coming into Cooper MS in the middle of a renovation (so it would probably be a while), plus you know Langley is going to need many of its current seats because of big developments like the Arden development off Route 7, turnover in some of the Langley neighborhoods built in the 70s and 80s, and the additional kids from Cooper who will end up at Langley if they change TJ admissions.

We commiserate together about the haphazard planning; now it's time for us to take more aggressive action to maintain the quality of our schools.

Langley parent here. I agree completely. We are with you, McLean!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just noting this...
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/6/20853091/school-secession-racial-segregation-louisiana-alabama

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households. Those differences mean that when a splinter district breaks off it can reinforce, and in some cases worsen, school segregation.

If you think this just happens in the South...looking at Mass (where there is an active, voluntary program (METCO) to try to integrate schools across districts), here are the Boston/Newton numbers...with METCO students included.

Boston:
42.5% Hispanic
33% Black
14% White
9% Asian

Newton: (METCO enrollment about 3% of overall total)
8% Hispanic
5% Black
61% White
19% Asian


Overview of METCO https://theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/boston-metco-program-school-desegregation/584224/

that's why this won't happen. McLean can most likely get Town status pretty easily, but moving from Town to City status is a lot harder and much more difficult politically

But the schools impacted would not change the current racial makeup. At least not initially.

But the study finds that these moves largely have a racial and economic impact: the smaller districts created through the secession process are usually whiter and have more affluent residents than the districts they leave behind, which are larger, have more nonwhite students, and more students in low-income or impoverished households.

You posting this doesn't not make it any less true that McLean's demographics are what they are. Whether they are included in FCPS statistics or not the kids on the eastern end of the county do not have access to McLean schools. What good is McLean doing them on the opposite end of the county, other than McLean providing tax dollars? The demographics don't change. It would be moving numbers around on paper without any actual impact to students.

yes, the rich people fleeing results in a poorer more segregated district, that's the whole point of the article

I can't tell if you're intentionally not seeing the forest for the trees or what.

McLean is already so physically isolated from the more "diverse" areas of the county that it makes no difference except on paper if they separate. Or are you actually saying that you just want to keep McLean taxes solely for the financial security it provides for everyone else? If that is what is being said, just come out with it instead of hiding behind "demographics" as a roadblock.

This. People like the PP simply want to bus kids from less affluent areas to McLean and Langley - they just won’t come out and say it. That would be the only way to change income-based demographics at those schools. And NO ONE wants their children bused for miles simply to fulfill some ridiculous quota.

[Anonymous]

Seems people fall into one of three camps:

1. McLean should receive in proportion to its tax base, and not have to subsidize geographically distant / less-affluent portions of the same county. Incorporation is long overdue and should happen regardless of crowding situation at McLean HS.

2. Some subsidy is fine and pursuing equity of opportunity across the county is reasonable... but at same time when there is a major pressing issue (like McLean HS overcrowding) it's not fair to those families to be strung along for years and not receive somewhat balanced treatment to resolve those legitimate issues. Pursuing incorporation is a last resort, but that's how frustrating and neglected the situation has become.

3. Everyone in categories 1 and 2 is equivalently a racist and closet segregationist and should be ashamed of themselves. Nobody in categories 1 and 2 could possibly have a valid concern or motivation, and are just obnoxiously entitled and privileged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this is true, it's a good illustration of how at least 1/2 the School Board thinks (they were following this rabid account), and why they won't give McLean the time of day.

https://twitter.com/AsraNomani/status/1336026069191827463

Unreal. Should have voted for the One Great Falls candidates instead of these SJWs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck. Join the MCA - there website does not say how many members they have.

I see these as your biggest hurdles so I would focus on these:

The VA law that currently prohibits exactly what you want to do.

The lack of incentive for VA state and FC to support this after the tax incentives and infrastructure investments poured into the NoVA/Tysons area, including a new Metro line - they will not have any interest in losing any portion of this tax base - commercial, residential and income wise.

Convincing the citizens of McLean (average age of 48) that they should take fiscal responsibilities for the schools when the first set of bills will be expensive additions for not just the HS, but the overcrowded ES.

On the other hand, I am cheering you on - FCPS needs a wake up call to figure out how to be more responsive and more transparent. I just think it is an uphill fight. Will follow with interest, so please report back when efforts get more organized than DCUM.

Depends how the school situation was handled, but likely the incorporated area would reduce the catchment areas for these schools to the point they were under-enrolled (Langley already is). Either they'd need to expand the incorporated area to include all of the current feeders, and/or add some of Pimmit, Tysons, TImber Lane... else if the county wanted to still send their students to the McLean schools they'd need to make a transfer payment (which would help fund expansions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More info than you may want but here is CIP published in DEC 2019 (2020 CIP must be coming soon)

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/Proposed-CIP-FY-2021-25_1.pdf

Table on page 60 of HS capacity with and without modulars

Thanks for this, but I'm a bit confused by the McLean numbers... it shows the same utilization levels in both 19-20 and 24-25 with and without modulars? How is that possible unless McLean had no modulars (both now and planned for the future)? But it already HAS modulars.

Holding that issue with the numbers aside, order-of-magnitude-wise if they can shift ~20% of McLean students to Langley then both schools settle in around 100% utilization, and presumably McLean would be able to remove most of its current modulars. And it sounds like the main sticking point here is the feeder MS not wanting to be split, which means they needed to wait to get the MS capacities aligned to support the new HS capacities (in particular, adding capacity at Cooper... which is funded). So isn't that the "plan" for addressing the McLean overcrowding issue? 69k new sf of space at Cooper, currently starting the construction process, not sure when the classroom space comes online but entire project to be completed in 2.5 years... then they make the boundary swap? And in the meantime McLean has to make due to with additional modulars and loss of certain facilities (tennis courts), which sucks, but it's not as if there's "no plan", right? It's just that people (in particular, parents of current MS/HS-aged students zoned for McLean HS) don't like the plan because it doesn't move fast enough for them (which I am sympathetic to, as this was easily foreseeable should have been addressed sooner, but FCPS planning is poor), right?

In the hierarchy of inferior space, there are trailers (not counted towards capacity) and modulars (which are).

When the last CIP was prepared, McLean had 18 trailers, but they had not yet decided to relocate a modular so the #s for "with" and "without" modular" just showed up as the same for present and future years.

The rest of what you say is kind of speculation, and could happen, but it certainly hasn't been presented as a "plan" and poses its own set of problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems people fall into one of three camps:

1. McLean should receive in proportion to its tax base, and not have to subsidize geographically distant / less-affluent portions of the same county. Incorporation is long overdue and should happen regardless of crowding situation at McLean HS.

2. Some subsidy is fine and pursuing equity of opportunity across the county is reasonable... but at same time when there is a major pressing issue (like McLean HS overcrowding) it's not fair to those families to be strung along for years and not receive somewhat balanced treatment to resolve those legitimate issues. Pursuing incorporation is a last resort, but that's how frustrating and neglected the situation has become.

3. Everyone in categories 1 and 2 is equivalently a racist and closet segregationist and should be ashamed of themselves. Nobody in categories 1 and 2 could possibly have a valid concern or motivation, and are just obnoxiously entitled and privileged.

Yep. And those who believe #3 simply don’t want to lose the cash cow that is McLean/Great Falls, but they’re too cowardly to come out and say it. Thus they hide behind the usual accusations of “racism” that no one in their right mind takes seriously anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck. Join the MCA - there website does not say how many members they have.

I see these as your biggest hurdles so I would focus on these:

The VA law that currently prohibits exactly what you want to do.

The lack of incentive for VA state and FC to support this after the tax incentives and infrastructure investments poured into the NoVA/Tysons area, including a new Metro line - they will not have any interest in losing any portion of this tax base - commercial, residential and income wise.

Convincing the citizens of McLean (average age of 48) that they should take fiscal responsibilities for the schools when the first set of bills will be expensive additions for not just the HS, but the overcrowded ES.

On the other hand, I am cheering you on - FCPS needs a wake up call to figure out how to be more responsive and more transparent. I just think it is an uphill fight. Will follow with interest, so please report back when efforts get more organized than DCUM.

Depending on when you started having kids, a 48 yo will be very invested in good schools that are not overcrowded. This is in addition to having great schools boosting property values for those who are beyond child bearing age/no children.

[Anonymous]

Where do we get the slides being shown in the McLean Boundary Study happening now? Can't find them on board docs.

[Anonymous]

https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/facilities-planning-future/school-boundary-adjustments/mclean-high-school-proposed